Unlike any other place I've entered, Canada seems to give visitors a hard time. At least that's what I've heard.

Recently I drove into Canada from Seattle and although they didn't search me they asked me at least 20 questions including what I was doing, why I was doing it, details details details.

My brother went to Nova Scotia on vacation and they searched him and his friend and detained them for an hour.

They are courteous but insistent. What are they looking for? Why are they doing this?

My feeling is that they want people to recognize the sovereignty of Canada, so often characterized in thought if not action as the "51st state" of USA. But perhaps I am way off in this explanation.

Anyone else with experience like this entering Canada? Any thoughts as to the reason why?

(And BTW, entering the US is no piece of cake with drug sniffing dogs etc., I am not trying to criticize Canada and apologize in advance to anyone if my question offends)

Immigration and Customs officials are only government employees and some of them love to use whatever authority they have to make life miserable for others. The only reason I can see is that it's because they feel like it (and this by a Canadian citizen who is sometimes given trouble reentering the country by customs - where the secondary inspector clears me in seconds after waiting enough time to see him).

You are right, clearing U.S. I.N.S. is often no fun for a foreigner.

They are doing this due to the lax rules they used to have where anyone could ,get in or out via the Canadian borders. If you are non-white prepare to show a passport entering the U.S from Canada as they are really clamping down because of the illegal Chinese and Vietnamese that are entering through the U.S border crossings. My wife is Filipino and we had to go inside because she didn't have her passport with her.


------------------
Cheers Scott

Originally posted by Scott the flier:
If you are non-white prepare to show a passport entering the U.S from Canada as they are really clamping down because of the illegal Chinese and Vietnamese that are entering through the U.S border crossings. My wife is Filipino and we had to go inside because she didn't have her passport with her.


Effectively profiling.

During the summer of 1998, I signed up for a salmon fishing trip in the Queen Charlotte Islands put together by the Sandy River chapter of the Northwest Steelheaders, near PDX. The plan was to drive from Portland to Vancouver, spend the night, and then take a couple of small planes further north, one to a small landing strip on the island of Bela Bela, the other a float plane to our final destination, a renovated ocean-going tugboat.

On the morning of July 13, a fellow pulled up by my apartment with whom I had prearranged to share the ride to Vancouver. As I loaded my gear onto his tiny A/C-less, radio-less vehicle (evidently normally towed behind an R/V), he asked me whether I had any guns.

I thought about the question for a moment. It wasn't that I did not know the answer - it was just that I guess I had never been asked that question before. "Am I supposed to?" I replied.

He explained that "for some reason" the Canadians tend to look somewhat askance at Americans and their love affair with guns. He thought that I should be aware of that "just in case" I was planning to bring any along. I told him that I was not planning to shoot any salmon although I have been know to shoot my mouth off http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Besides, I didn't own any guns, so off we went on the 6-7 hour drive north to the Canadian border.

Once we arrived at the border, we waited in the car on a fairly lengthy line until it was finally our turn to be queried. We were asked a couple of questions and then an extremely polite Canadian customs officer directed us to pull off to a special area, where we were instructed to vacate the car which would then undergo a much more thorough inspection. The entire process took about an hour and all of the Canadian customs personnel were polite and proper throughput the entire endeavor. But as I wandered around bored, I happened to meander towards the back of the vehicle, whereupon I noticed that the bumper had been adorned with an assortment of pretty NRA sponsored bumper stickers. I presume that's what had done the trick.

LarryU :- The attitude towards guns is different in Canada. They are virtually never seen, aside from police or armed guard use. I would venture a guess that a majority of city dwellers have never handled a firearm, let alone used one (myself included). This perhaps explains the Canadian fixation about keeping guns out: we don't really have any and we like it that way! There is a strong general perception that handgun and firearm use/ownership is out of control in the US -whether this is true or not- and this probably acoounts for your treatment at the border, given the NRA bumper sticker! Maybe next time put a " gun control" sticker on and you will glide through customs!

Anyway my apologies on behalf of the Canadian people for slowing down a Flyertalker!

FWIW, I always get the 3rd degree from customs in SEA and SFO enetering the US. I think it must be the subtle difference in accent, I sound like a Canadian or something.

Maybe that's it, eh?

I wonder if it could be some retaliation for the Feinstein-sponsored immigration bill that would have required every single arrival into the U.S. to be documented (the U.S. Representatives of the northern border states fought against implementation and I think an amendment was passed to defer implementation). Arrivals from Canada are still largely undocumented.

I think that legislation has given the I.N.S. some power to go on a fishing trip on transiting passengers. Travellers between Canada and Australia (and New Zealand and other S. Pacific destinations) prior to at least 1996 would transit at HNL. Starting sometime between then and before July/August 2000, transiting passengers are greeted by I.N.S. inspectors on disembarkation of the aircraft, even though they are not entering the U.S. and staying in air side sterile areas, who want to see citizenship documentation and ask questions they'd ask if one was entering the U.S.

Be aware that customs on either side have the power (almost absolute) to tear your vehicle apart to check for contraband on the mere suspicion that you may have any if they so wish. And no, they don't have to help you put it together.



[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 12-25-2000).]

I have always heard that the Canadian customs are polite...


but also a pain. Also, cameras view your car and they plug your license plate into the computer. I was told recently that once you are stopped and searched extensively, you will *always* be stopped and searched, because your car is "marked" by the computer. Don't know if this is true.

Coming back to the US, the US INS was using drug sniffing dogs. Cars would be told to open their trunk, and the dog would be invited to hop in and sniff around http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Originally posted by richard:
Also, cameras view your car and they plug your license plate into the computer.

Depending on the border crossing, the I.N.S. also uses this technology. They have installed these cameras (for front and back and the car) at the main crossing from Vancouver. I guess they have the technology to implement Big Brother policies and will continue to do so with willful glee.

I'm glad to hear that our border "guards" are at least being polite. This process is tolerable if you are not treated rudely. I've been profiled as well in LAX by the INS and they were nice to me....thorough....but nice.

Terenz.....it was as a transiting passenger that I was put thru this process by the way, and that was in Feb 2000.


Significant political pressure from public outcries and US government efforts have resulted in a more strict "vetting" of anybody attempting to enter Canada.

Witness the Algerian with the trunk load of explosives arrested recently upon attempting entry into the US via the BC/Washington state border and you'll understand why.



[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 12-25-2000).]

Hey, I did an LAX-YVR mileage run a couple of years ago. Was detained in YVR because:

I had no business in YVR,
I had no friends in YVR,
My tickets had been changed because of a cancellation,
etc.

Originally posted by Carioca Canuck:

Witness the Algerian with the trunk load of explosives arrested recently upon attempting entry into the US via the BC/Washington state border and you'll understand why.


Right, so they more intensively question anyone who isn't a light-skinned caucasoid especially those with a non-N. American/Western European accent, and may your diety help you if you look Arabic in the least.


[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 12-25-2000).]

Originally posted by Carioca Canuck:
I'm glad to hear that our border "guards" are at least being polite. This process is tolerable if you are not treated rudely. I've been profiled as well in LAX by the INS and they were nice to me....thorough....but nice.

Terenz.....it was as a transiting passenger that I was put thru this process by the way, and that was in Feb 2000.


CC

May I ask if there was/is a sterile transit facility at LAX or did you mix with U.S.-orignating pax on your ongoing flight who did not enter am immigration sterile area? Were you free to leave the airport with ease and without detection and could have easily skipped the flight to wherever and remained in the U.S.?

The HNL transit facilty (gates 25-31(?)) is an immigration AND security-sterile area - similar to international transit areas at AMS, GRU, HKG, SYD, ZRH, BKK & GVA among a few. You DO NOT (have to) clear U.S. immigration and customs if you are not leaving it, and a few years back you did NOT have to see any I.N.S. officials if you were merely transiting. I haven't seen immigration officials checking pax in the transit area at any of the previously-mentioned airports. Empress who was flying between SYD and YYZ reported that he was harassed and held at length by I.N.S. officials though he had NO intent to enter the U.S.



[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 12-25-2000).]

Originally posted by terminalcity:
LarryU :- The attitude towards guns is different in Canada. They are virtually never seen, aside from police or armed guard use. I would venture a guess that a majority of city dwellers have never handled a firearm, let alone used one (myself included). This perhaps explains the Canadian fixation about keeping guns out: we don't really have any and we like it that way! There is a strong general perception that handgun and firearm use/ownership is out of control in the US -whether this is true or not- and this probably acoounts for your treatment at the border, given the NRA bumper sticker! Maybe next time put a " gun control" sticker on and you will glide through customs!

Anyway my apologies on behalf of the Canadian people for slowing down a Flyertalker!


No apologies needed; I find the irony of the whole situation rather amusing. Here is this fellow who is quite cognizant of the fact that many Canadians do not exhibit the same love affair with guns as some Americans, yet not bright enough to realize that his NRA stickers would draw some attention and concern. As it was his car, I don't think I would try to affix the gun control sticker as you suggested. I didn't fancy walking to Vancouver. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Terenz....

I was merely using the Algerian example as one of the reasons that the US has applied political pressure on Canada to more strictly review who is let into this country.

We have been criticised for having lax policies and our country has been referred to as a conduit for people attempting to enter the US for whatever reasons.

In answer to your other question, when I flew thru LAX, I was mixed with other inbound international pax at the INS counters. When I finished there and ran the gauntlet of customs agents I was free to go anywhere I wanted, and basically I could have disappeared into LA.

I had to leave the terminal and walk over to another one for my connecting flight....which incidentally was an international flight as well.

At 7am it seemed odd....since the previous 3 South American airports I had been thru that night all held me in a sterile area during aircraft changes....etc.

[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 12-25-2000).]

delete

I am a Canadian Citizen and was never given any hassle at either YVR or YYZ. I always get the usual question like where did you go, what are you claiming and welcome home.

However, as terenz said, i am always given the extra hassle at HNL and couple times by the same guy. He always pull me aside and ask extra stupid question like why am i only here for 3 days, who paid for the trip, whether i am going to Maui, what do i do for a living.... while virtually no one else on the whole 767 got questioned that way. The stupid thing is that I was only transitting through HNL on my way home from SYD with absolutely no intent to enter the US.

I'm a US citizen and have entered Canada ~50 times in the past 30 years; about 49% of the time by car, 49% by air, and 1 time by bus. Most trips are pleasure, some business, and a few for shoping (IKEA, Labello).

The only time that passing Canadian immigration was more than a 10-second deal was the bus trip. (I may not have looked and smelled my best on that one, as I was stoned to the bone when the bus left Boston at 12.30am, and my roommmate and I finished off a bottle of screwdrivers during the trip.)

My worst experience entering Canada was when I had my two older children (mid-teens) with me for a long weekend using frequent flyer miles. Canada immigration was virtually apoplectic that I didn't have a letter from their mother (we are married and living together) allowing me to take them out of the country. I had never heard of such a thing -- certainly not for kids that old. Canada acted like I should have known and was seriously planning to send us back.

I suggested that they just call my wife and have a conversation with her, if that would make them feel better. Making the offer seemed to do the trick. They let us pass, but said never do that again! I haven't.

Bruce

I cannot count the number of times I had to refuse visas to people in New York who were travelling alone with their kids without consent letters from the other parent--let alone the number of times I had to explain it to Americans on the phone.

The most ironic occurence was when one of my subordinates--a locally engaged visa officer--took her daughter to Montreal to visit family; and forgot to take a consent letter from her husband.

Maybe I'm just stupid (or stubborn), but how does the immigration officer know if the consent letter that someone is carrying is valid? I could easily write my own letter and sign my wife's name to it. In any case, why not just speak with the children, who are standing right there and aren't little babies, after all? Am I missing something?

Bruce

Originally posted by bdschobel:
...how does the immigration officer know if the consent letter that someone is carrying is valid? I could easily write my own letter and sign my wife's name to it.
Bruce
While I'm not familiar with Canada's requirements, Mexico has an immigration law requiring a consent to travel letter for unacompanied minors or minors traveling with only one parent. The letter must be notarized by a notary public before departure and presented upon demand to immigration officers. This is how they reasonably determine that the letter is genuine. Interestingly enough, there is no requirement to provide the letter in Spanish. In the event that the "missing" parent is deceased or divorced, then a certified copy of the death certificate or divorce decree is substituted for the consent letter.

I once asked a immigration officer at MEX about the purpose of the law. He told me it was to help prevent incidents of international kidnapping, particularly in child custody cases. I suspect that this is also the reason for Canada's law and they would probably want a notarized letter from the absent spouse.

tmorse6570 A guy from Switzerland sitting next to me wasn't asked anything.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif (why didn't you introduce yourself? I always have a FlyerTalk-luggage-tag on my carry-on-luggage)

Canada, USA and Mexico have similiar laws that covers the situation of one parent taking a child over the border. HOWEVER, Never have I been asked to show proof but I do carry a "blanket" notorised letter just in case.

I have crossed the Canadian/US border about 600 times by car and without a doubt the Canadians are the friendliest border guards I have met anywhere in the world. They are only concerned about what I bought and the booze and smoke thing. This may have to do with the fact Canadian Border crossings are guarded by Tax Collectors (Customs officers) and not immigration officers.

The opposite is true of the US. US borders are guarded first by INS and second by Customs. I rank US immigration up their with the Chinese Red Guards. I have been strip searched, accused of robbing a local vendor, accused of lying and swore at. A few years back when Australians were given Visa Waiver Status, I was one of the first Australians a US immigration officer encountered under the new system. He demanded to see my Visa. It is very difficult to inform a US immigration offficer that I did not need a Visa. He "consulted" with a colleague and he confirmed that I did not need a Visa anymore. The Immigration officer raised his voice - said "Jesus Christ, Everybody is getting in" and threw my Australian Passport over the counter to me. Welcome to America!

Yes, what Empress says about HNL is true. US INS officers do indeed check your passport if you are "transiting" between flights from Canada to the South Pacific. I assume this is because HNL airport was never originally designed as a secure transit airport. I think they believed that if a passenger got off in Honolulu then it must be the final destination. Heavens forbid an Aussie may actually change planes on the way to Canada or vice versa.

It is all a mute point anyway. I have always argued that immigration entry controls are useless if there were no mechanisms to keep track of who actually left. Canada gives out 90 day entry permits but it does not keep track of who leaves. The US gives out SSN to temporary workers but it has no exit controls that would keep track of who overstays their Visas. The system has many holes in it.

Now if only Toronto Airport can get their act together and combine USA arrivals with International departures with a secured transiting area. That bus ride in the middle of December between terminals certainly does not make Toronto an attractive hub!

Merry Christmas Y'all

I have a friend in Buffalo who is a supervisor with the I.N.S. and I happen to know he doesn't even like Chinese food. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

delete

We drove to Vancouver from Seattle a couple of years ago. There were long lines--a summer weekend--but the officials were polite to us.
The next year we flew into YVR from Reno and again, had no problem. 2 times to Canada and no problems on entry.
Although, once we had been on a cruise in the Mediterranean where we visited both Egypt and Israel. On return to the U.S., we were standing in the long customs re-entry line and our line was moving very, very slowly, while the lines on either side were quicker. I hesitated to move by using my grocery store experience--if you see a quick moving line and move to it yourself, then the line you've moved to ceases to move and the line you moved from then begins to move quickly. While moving out of line to check out other lines, I noticed that the customs inspector in our line was wearing a yarmulke. I figured if he's questioning everyone this long, we would be questioned even longer having been in Egypt then Israel, so we moved to a different line (and got through quicker).

Years ago I was crossing into Canada to see Niagra from their side (a decision I immediately wanted back). I was driving a panel van w/ CA tags, no windows (but well decorated with daisies, black lights, and excerpts from "DR's Trip" - anyone remember that one?) - and two babies under 3. My van was pulled over, completely emptied - back seats and all. I was searched, as were the babies. When they were as satisfied I wasn't running drugs into Canada, they said I was free to go. Did they offer to help me put the backseats back in? No. After strapping the babies into one front seat, struggling to get the backseat even into the van's door - all this encompassing about 20 minutes - a guard finally strolled over and threw the back seat into the van. I had to secure it, reinstall the car seats, etc. The whole episode took over 2 hours. I have never driven into Canada again. I love every city I've visited in Canada, but the border always scares me. That being said, it's unlikely anyone would look at me today and think "pusher" ! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Being from Spokane (which is 90 miles from the border), we make many trips to Canada. They are always efficient and polite (even when they took our firewood and some sort of vegatable). The kids get a big kick because they are often asked who we are! They keep telling us that one of these days they will say they don't know us and that we tricked them into the car. I found out the hard way that flying into the country they can be a lot more picky about your documents than driving in, but I got in and will be better prepared the next time.

I've done quite a bit of international traveling - including Eastern Bloc and third world countries - and I have never had more difficulty entering a country than I have had entering the USA from Canada. Entering and exiting Russian Federation countries is a total breeze compared to entering the USA at Niagara Falls or at the main crossing on the way back from Vancouver.

We've waited 45 minutes to cross at Niagara Falls and 110 minutes to cross at Vancouver in the past. I've never been searched, but we usually get quizzed pretty good. I've found that US customs officials haven't always been the friendliest or most effecient speed-oriented people around. I'm a male caucasian American citizen, and the thought of returning from Canada gives me chills. I can't even imagine what a non-Caucasian or non-US-citizen must feel when going through this horrible process.

BTW - Entering Canada has never been a problem for us either east or west. Usually a three to five minute wait, a couple of questions about citizenry and purpose in Canada, and that's it. Perhaps I've been lucky... Airport travel to and from Canada has never been a problem for me either direction.

A couple of people have mentioned the main crossing near Vancouver. I too had a very long wait there last summer. When I had to return the next week, I crossed at another point about 10 miles east. It was like a ghost town and took only moments --- both directions!

Bruce

I've often thought that if governments wanted to do things to benefit their citizens they should monitor how long it takes their nationals to enter other countries. And recipricate the line.

So if it takes me as a UK citizen three hours to get into the US at LAX, passengers from the US should be made to wait three hours at our airports - none of this fast lane nonsence.

Originally posted by Markie:
So if it takes me as a UK citizen three hours to get into the US at LAX, passengers from the US should be made to wait three hours at our airports - none of this fast lane nonsence.

What fast lane? Fast Track? The LHR T4 one doesn't work on weekends or after 12pm. Obviously you haven't arrived in T1/2 and have to go through the non-E.U. line where even the Swiss are given a thoru=ough going over. The wait here can be very long (thankfully I never have to experience the T3 lineup in the early morning).

"beat the system"tip#16: understand the foreigner lines at Passport Control, discussion: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/000172.html

"beat the system" tip#17: beat the long foreigner lines at passport control, discussion: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/000173.html

"beat the system" tip#19: how to deal with Passport Control Staff, discussion: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/000175.html

Flew to Seattle, rented a van, and drove to Vancouver to visit my uncle a few years ago. My father was with us, and wanted to buy duty free cigarettes for my uncle, so we followed the signs to a duty free shop, paid for the cigarettes, and were directed to drive on and pick up the goods just before crossing the border.

So, we miss the pickup, continue on, and are waved through to Canada, then make a U turn as soon as possible as my father insists on getting the cigarettes, drive back to the border and get waved hrough US immigration. Turnaround, and drive back looking for the pickup point again, and again we miss it! Another series of U-turns, no questions at the borders. 3rd time, I tell my father, this is it, they've have got to think something's fishy if we do this any more. This time we find the right spot, pickup the cigarettes and continue on our way, again getting waved through Canadian immigration/customs.

The only time we get stopped and asked questions is a week later by US immigration, going back to Seattle.

Originally posted by terminalcity:
LarryU :- The attitude towards guns is different in Canada.

Gee, rilly? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


No offense, tc, but many Yanks find the Canadian line of pro-gun control rather naive. Guns don't kill people; people kill people, and no amount of "gun" control will change that.

every (fit to do so) swiss man over 18 has to do his military services in the swiss army.

And as a reserve soldier he afterwards takes his rifle/pistol (with ammunition) home (he may keep it even after leaving the army for the rest of his life).

The crime/killing rate using the personal army weapons in Switzerland is very, very small. I am not aware of a single criminal incident this year 2000 (but unfortunately some times used for suicide, yes).

At the risk of starting a huge debate, let me just note that homogeneous societies like Switzerland and Japan have very low rates of violence, including gun crimes. Heterogeneous societies like the U.S., India, Israel and any number of others have much higher levels of violence. People seem reluctant to hurt others "like them," but much more willing to attack people regarded as different. Access to weapons is just a tiny part of a much larger picture. But none of this is particularly relevant to flyertalk, and I hope that it doesn't generate a huge rant from somebody.

Bruce


[This message has been edited by bdschobel (edited 12-28-2000).]

I'd like to add a word about social order. In Japan, Switzerland and probably Germany, there is a very strong feeling that order is important so people adhere to rules, customs, taboos, etc. In the U.S., there is more of a disregard for these so there is less order. You also see more order in rural areas than urban ones. I don't think crime is linked to weaponery availability but how society views violatins of behavioural code. Many Canadians are denying that they are drifting in attitude towards something more American - I see the changes every day.

Silicon-

You bring up an interesting point about duty-free. In fact, after our Vancouver nightmare, we were given two tips that would have made it much easier to enter the USA from Canada (nice info, but too late for us!):

(1) When driving towards the US border in Canada, look for the truck crossing signs. Trucks are directed off of the main highway to a separate crossing a few miles away. Supposedly this costs about 15 minutes of extra driving, but saves time overall because cars can cross at this point with very little wait.

(2) Sometimes using duty free at the main crossings make it much quicker - even if you only purchase a bottle of water or a candy bar. To make a long story short - the line to enter the USA with a duty-free purchase is usually much faster than the non-duty-free line, simply because of the way the road is laid out and the configuration of the duty-free area (at this location, anyway). The kicker is that it is absolutely illegal to use this line WITHOUT making a purchase - the Canadian officials will make you turn around and go to the back of the "regular" line. Hence the need for a quick purchase of *something*... Again, great idea...wish we would have known http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif.

Samantha: Yes, people kill people. Crazy people with guns. Crazy people with knives are much easier to run away from. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by RichG (edited 12-28-2000).]

So much for my failed attempt to return this discussion to a travel-related topic http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Whenever I cross national borders--usually at airports--I dress up in suit and tie even when travelling with my partner who usually dresses more casual. This has been pretty successful so that even the US agents (I am now a US citizen, former German) have waved us through after only a couple of questions.

My experience with canada other than having to wait in line at times has been great: very polite at immigration with normal questions and no stopping at customs.

I have done a few Canadian crossings for business, a couple for transit to Europe, and one for pleasure. All by air, mostly at YYZ.

For business, I make it clear that I am in Sales Consulting and that I am attending sales planning meetings. I carry no commercial goods for sale. I have not had problems with this line, however colleagues have had interviews with officials about this. "We are having the meeting in Toronto because we want to see the Blue Jays play and my client has a skybox here."

For transit, there has never been a problem (at YYZ).

For pleasure, my boyfriend and I were coming for gay pride in YYZ (1999) and the agent told us that we could use a single form since we were a household. Very progressive (although a customs agent friend in the US tells me that unmarried couples can do this on entry to the US if you want to push the rules), and very nice.

Regarding checks for guns, some fine residents of Texas have spent time in state institutions in Mexico by "forgetting" that Mexico has different laws about transporting firearms than the Lone Star State. I think the Treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo was pretty clear about sovereignty south of the Rio Bravo.

That "truck crossing" from B.C. back into Washington State mentioned a few posts back is, indeed, usually a faster alternative. Sticking with the main road south from Vancouver can mean a wait of up to two hours on Sunday afternoons. And the way the road is laid out, once you see the magnitude of the backup, there's no way out of it.

It's better to take the White Rock exit off the highway two or three miles before you hit the border; drive one mile east; and turn right/south again. There's a duty-free at the "truck crossing" but the lines are always shorter and after you pass through into the US you merge right onto I-5.

Interesting note about Immigration and kids. When my son was two and my wife and I were in Victoria waiting to board a car ferry back to Washington, roaming INS agents were doing pre-passage car-to-car inspections -- and a couple of tough-looking men WOULD NOT LET GO until they could make my toddler confirm that, yes, these were his real mommy and daddy. Odd, because we were obviously the white-bread Griswolds, piloting a toy-strewn, tail-dragging Ford Taurus.

Last year, my son was five and I drove up to Vancouver with him without his mom to meet some friends off a cruise ship, and the Canadian border agent glanced inside the car, said, "That your son?" and waved us through instantly. No permission letter from Mom requested (and good thing too, 'cos none was on board).

I sometimes wonder if the seeming arbitrariness of these checks really is backed by some richly reasoned profiling system... or if it's just agents having bad days.

I've not had problems at any immigration point in years and years and years, and I'm not particularly well-dressed (usually barely neat enough) or particularly well-connected.

Here's the most recent three trips to Canada.

1. Flying in to Montreal. Passport gets inspected. Envious sigh. Waved through.

2. Auto with friend on 87 through Mooers.
"Do you have any drugs or nuclear weapons?" "No." "OK."

3. Flying in to Vancouver. I let my (black) friend go before me. There's a ruckus. She doesn't have a passport. I come up. Guy looks at my passport. Says, "how long have you known each other?" "Uh, 28, no, 29 years." "Will you vouch for her?" "Yes." "OK."

Originally posted by essxjay:
Gee, rilly? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


No offense, tc, but many Yanks find the Canadian line of pro-gun control rather naive. Guns don't kill people; people kill people, and no amount of "gun" control will change that.


Really.......

When you say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"- I've never heard it put that way before.

I should get out of the igloo more often.

The gun device looks to be good for killing seals, do you think Essxjay?

Essxjay?

Will you speak such wisdom again through the magic box?

Essxjay?

Don't taunt him. Please don't!

He'll just come back with more knee-jerk pro-gun propaganda.

As someone who grew up in Washington DC, I can very much assure you that guns kill people. Many times a day in fact.