I've been reading extensively in the past threads and the various answers are extremely confusing about "what is a good deal" for a MR, as well as how people are calculating their cost per miles?

Sometime people are calculating their top tier bonuses into the cost per mile while some others don't. They include the booking online bonus and others. I think the real cost per miles should be the value of the ticket divided by actual mileage (not including various bonuses). To illustrate it, let's say I spent 757$ for a SIN run out of JFK and I rack up 21000 Q miles, my real cost per miles should be 0.036 cents per miles.

Bonuses shouldn't be part of the calculation to get a real base for everybody to compare apple to apple.

This being said, now what is a real deal? Below 3 cents per miles? Below 5 cents? I understand that with bonuses you lower your cost per miles. However, If I'm not a top tier I have no bonus. Therefore, what is a good deal?

I'm a bit confused about this whole thing. Anybody could bring some light into this?

I use a $0.02 per base mile as my outer limit for a good mileage run.

But as a qualifier, I use this only when I am trying to get to a higher tier. Once there I take flights which may be more than 0.02 per base mile but are much lesser when you count status bonuses and any other bonuses.

I agree that the cost per status mile should be the gauge for a generalized "good deal" because there are endless other factors that can figure in otherwise. (bonus miles, vouchers, change fees, tickets, etc.) I first heard around here that under 4c/status mile was considered good, but I think that is "standard" and I think under 3.5c/status mile should be "good" instead. Perhaps under 2.5c/status mile could be considered "excellent". http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif It is exeedingly difficult to obtain that level absent a $20 fare to Europe on BA http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

But, as always, many around here have differing levels of resources to apply and different standards of good deals.

[This message has been edited by Warrenlm (edited 01-04-2003).]

$0.04 per status mile is the basic standard, and that doesn't count bonus miles of any kind.

$0.02 per earned mile is the basic for a MR. A good mileage run will earn you miles at less, something like $0.015/mile.

An excellent run is when you go down to $0.01/mile.

It seems to me that a $0.02/mile ticket would be an extremely rare find, would it not? I mean in the example above that would be about $420 for a SIN run from JFK, rather than the current $625-$750. Or a LAX-LHR flight for about $215!

Where do you ever find these fares? Or do people just somehow come up with extremely convoluted routings on the good but more normal fares?

Thanks http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
"Bother!" said Pooh, as Satan laid his soul to waste.

[This message has been edited by Mrukk (edited 01-04-2003).]

My trip to SIN two weeks ago has finally posted completely to my account......

$.0286 per status mile
$.0103 per earned mile

A very good trip and I wish I could see these SIN prices again for the Spring, but I lucked out getting the 15,000 JPNUS bonus for my trip.. :-)

------------------
AA member since 1981.

mrukk.... i think what many of us seem to think is that 4 cents per status [q] mile is pretty good.then, when you add on elite bonuses & promos , the cost per mile earned can be much lower. none of us seem to include hotel,food,cabs,parking,etc in the calucation.

This subject has crossed this forum many times before - but interestingly, the topic does not occupy it's own special place in The Primer. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum124/HTML/000027.html)

Soooo... this topic will make a nice addition. Thanks for bringing it up again, Super Larry! Any more 'final answers' ...or shall I just preach? hahaha http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif




[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 01-04-2003).]

Super Larry: I look to get status miles for just less than 3.5 cents each and total miles for about one cent each. Both matter to me - since occasional bonuses can make an ordinary-looking flight a true bonanza in terms of total mileage earned. During 2002 I found some status miles for 3 cents each - amazing prices. I suspect the same will happen this year. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I agree that one should calculate cost per mile on the basis on status miles.
The cost will also depend on continental runs vs transoceanic. I have not gone accross the ocean so I usually compare the cost of my runs with continental runs only.

That being said, in the US the longest flight would be roughly 5500 miles (SEA-FLL). If the fare is $200 (a cheap fare but not the cheapest) then the cost per mile is 3.6 cents. That is my usual gold standard.

If you are very clever (more than me) and you have lots of time to find the right fare and airport sequence and you are flexible with the times you can travel (which I am not) then you may be able to had mileage (SEA-BOS-FLL lets say 7500 miles) then the cost could go down to 2.7 cents.

So, for me 3.5 cents/miles is a good run, 2.5 cents/miles is an excellent run.

Feel free to prove me wrong (there are all sorts of exceptions), but I a see myself as an average MRer only.

Thanks for all the answer so far! It definitely helps me understand better.

Now let add a little bit of multi-culturalism!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

We are always making the calculations in US$. Would it be safe to assume that a MR at a cost of 3.6 centsUS per miles that translate into 5.2 centsCAN is still a good deal for a canadian citizen?

Probably my fellow canadians would know the answer...

[This message has been edited by Super Larry (edited 01-04-2003).]

All of the fares of my mileage runs are in USD, so I calculate the cents/mile ratio in US dollar.

My personal threshold is less than 1 cent per earned mile if status miles are not my objective. For status miles, it's under 3 cents per mile.

It's my opinion but I find that it is really not hard at all to price runs that are 2 cents per earned mile. Elite bonuses (100%) help and special promotions can help but sometimes the routings are just too darn good. For example, I booked me a $151 NW SEA-BNA fare that would net less than 2 cents per status mile (hence less than 1 cent per earned mile).

Oh, and I do take into account discount certificates, vouchers used when calculating the cost. However, I do not take into account the bus fare from Vancouver to SEA, any layover costs (usually no hotel for me), and other travel costs (meals).

1) The first step in evaluating whether a mileage run makes sense is determining the value of miles for you. The critical error to avoid here is simply assigning what an award costs, not what it's worth to you or what you'd pay for it.

If you intend to use your trips primarily for first class trips to Greece, and those trips cost $20,000, you shouldn't jump to use this figure to determine the value of your miles without pausing to think. What is the trip worth to you, would you have actually paid this figure for that ticket? You don't want to spend $15,000 worth of effort thinking you are getting a good deal for something that is really only worth $3000 to you. There may be some benefits of award travel tickets over purchased tickets you should consider, like free stopovers.

Don't ever forget that miles most certainly will depreciate in value over time as awards become less available, have more restrictions, or cost more miles. If you won't use your miles for many years, maybe it's not worth killing yourself for something that could well be worth very little someday. Airlines have every right to change their program however they like, and are required by law to do whatever maximizes shareholder value... No mercy! More airlines are sure to go bankrupt. While miles historically have miraculously survived bankruptcies (TWA, etc..), there are no promises for the future.

2) Once you have a value of miles, you can factor in the double miles you'd get for future travel on higher elite status. You could assign a value for the other benefits of elite status and factor it in -- free upgrades every 10,000 miles, special elite lines, club use for international travel, that really pretty card that impresses vacuous people. Anyway, you'll get a dollar estimate for how much each tier is worth to you.

3) When evaluating a mileage run, factor in the cost of airport transportation or parking, and any hotel costs. Finding cheaper hotel rates can help you justify much more travel. Far more importantly, how much is your time worth to you? If you get little enjoyment out of the run itself, time is money, and you're flushing it.

If a 4th connecting city only gets you 45 extra miles and flushes 3 additional hours, consider taking a slightly more direct route on the run! I see this mistake all the time. If you extend the stay of a mileage run and see friends or enjoy exploring new places, it may be far easier to justify the run that is now a mini-vacation...

I almost always turn my mileage runs into travel runs, visiting new places or friends, even if only for a few days. It's incredible how much you can do with 2 days in Manhattan, Hong Kong, Buenos Aires, etc... ****, everyone should go to Buenos Aires right now.

Anyway, either I keep an eye out for cheap fares for places I'd like to visit, or an unusual fare gives me a new idea to explore a place I hadn't considered. A person with little free time would have a harder time justifying a pure mileage run, because their limited time would be more valueable. If your run alienates or stresses people you care about, don't forget to factor that in. Again, always consider what good you could have gotten elsewhere out of alternate uses of that same time.

4) Steps 1,2 and 3 are important, because they indirectly determine how much time and effort is sensible for each mile. It will be different for each person. Now pause to consider opportunity costs -- what could you have done with that same time and money? Dollars are really abstract figures, and it's easy to lose sight of how much they are really worth to you. Stop and think about something you value, but don't buy as much of as you'd like because of cost. Say visiting someone you care about costs $1000 per trip.

Then instead of using an abstract dollar amount to determine if something is worth it or not, you can instead say, "Is this worth 2 trips to visit sally? The cost of this item could have paid for half a trip, is it really worth that much to me?"

5) Another angle to check the value of something is to consider the amount of "economic slavery" required. Suppose an optional car purchase eats up a full year of your *discretionary* spending (do not use gross earnings for this step!) Then you'd pause to consider, is this car worth a full year of working day after day, with nothing else to show for my hard work? A person who enjoys cars much more than someone else, could justify more work days flushed to getting it. This makes you think what something is worth to you, not what the dollar cost is.

I'll edit this and add more later perhaps.

I think that a lot may depend on where you live. I fly out of ORD on United and it is hard to find domestic runs for less than 3.6 to 4 cents a status mile.

I made a lot of runs when DL had the 750 base mile bonus per segment offer 3-4 months ago. The best I managed was ~9500 base miles + 12000 bonus miles for $152. Not a bad deal at all.

edited to correct typo

[This message has been edited by DLrunner (edited 01-04-2003).]

dfw is the pits for mi runs , imho.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stevelb:
I think that a lot may depend on where you live. I fly out of ORD on United and it is hard to find domestic runs for less than 3.6 to 4 cents a status mile.</font>

I would disagree. UA has quite a few ORD-West coast fares at $158 which allow you to bounce around the west coast.

ORD-SAN-LAX-SFO-SEA and return is 6802 miles, $158 fare after taxes is about $190ish. About 2.8 cents per mile...

I do agree however that it does depend on the airline you fly and where you originate. PHX is probably a very good origin city while a city like BOS may be more difficult. UA, CO are good for domestic runs while AA and DL may not be so great.

There is no such thing as a mileage run from Canada. Why? Because taxes absolutely kill any good deal. See:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?M245637F2

($6 return fare becomes $89.27 after tax)

In addition, AC Aeroplan offers 0 miles on consolidator (read: student-class) fares, and only offers 50% status miles on super cheap fares on domestic flights (75% on Vclass or higher).

see: https://www.aeroplan.com/en/collect/air_air_canada.jsp

So while all you DL flyers 'complain' about your status miles decreasing on cheap fares, it has been this way in Canada for the past 2 years +.

But I'm not bitter. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Super Larry:
Thanks for all the answer so far! It definitely helps me understand better.

Now let add a little bit of multi-culturalism!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

We are always making the calculations in US$. Would it be safe to assume that a MR at a cost of 3.6 centsUS per miles that translate into 5.2 centsCAN is still a good deal for a canadian citizen?

Probably my fellow canadians would know the answer...

[This message has been edited by Super Larry (edited 01-04-2003).]</font>

Oh, and I do take into account discount certificates, vouchers used when calculating the cost. However, I do not take into account the bus fare from Vancouver to SEA, any layover costs (usually no hotel for me), and other travel costs (meals).


keithguy, I think applying vouchers, etc. makes the cost per mile number calculated only of interest to the individual and not useful to others for comparison. Also, if we are looking at the cost per mile ("earned") after all savings and bonuses, it also then seems we should include the parking, hotel, etc. costs. I think a post that says a fare and possible routing is 2.5c/status mile is more meaningful and standard setting than a cents per mile that was reduced by a voucher.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Warrenlm:
keithguy, I think applying vouchers, etc. makes the cost per mile number calculated only of interest to the individual and not useful to others for comparison.</font>

Exactly. When I do comparisons, it is from one mileage run of mine to another mileage run of mine. I don't see the point of comparing a mileage run of mine to someone else's mileage run. I think the objectives of each run are all unique and depend on the person (e.g. going for status miles, earned miles, flying various aircraft type, going through various airports, etc).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Also, if we are looking at the cost per mile ("earned") after all savings and bonuses, it also then seems we should include the parking, hotel, etc. costs.</font>

I tend to view the airfare as the cost of miles/status miles. Ground transport, hotel (if any), meals on the ground, gifts, etc are all costs that I absorb as travel costs - the cost of going places and seeing things.

Keithguy,

I don't think your perspective is wrong with regards to comparing your own MR between themselves. I do, however, think bonuses, vouchers and all the alike should not be reflected in the cost per miles because it gives biased information to others. The idea is not to find who's the champion of the lowest cost/miles MR, but to establish a base where everybody here could feel that a good MR should cost less than xx.xx cents per mile.

When we read that someone has done a MR at 0.01 cents per miles and that another one did one at 0.04 cents per miles, what is the reference we can use to say one is better than the other? Do we use the value the airlines are giving to their own "currency"?

Good for you and for all the others than can integrate vouchers and bonuses and lower their cost to 0.01 cents per mile. That is exactly what you are refering to and I do respect that. I, however, as a non top tier, don't collect bonuses and therefore will probably never be able to lower my cost to your level.

I hope I'm not confusing the issue too much... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Super Larry:
The idea is not to find who's the champion of the lowest cost/miles MR, but to establish a base where everybody here could feel that a good MR should cost less than xx.xx cents per mile.</font>

Like I've said before, I think it's all subjective. Bob might think 4 cents a mile is great but Jane might think that below 2 is great.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">When we read that someone has done a MR at 0.01 cents per miles and that another one did one at 0.04 cents per miles, what is the reference we can use to say one is better than the other? Do we use the value the airlines are giving to their own "currency"?</font>

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reference. Again and it's all dependent on the objective of the mileage run. Many would say that a mile in one program might not equal a mile in another program. And how about really low fares, would you not count those? SEA-LHR-HEL at $120US after taxes yields 11900 status miles (1 cent per status mile). Or how about that SEA-PIT/PHL $120US after taxes fare where you could easily route 7500 status miles (1.6 cents per status mile)? If you are going to compare future mileage runs against those kinds of fares, then you are going to be really hard pressed to find similar status mile yielding ratios.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Good for you and for all the others than can integrate vouchers and bonuses and lower their cost to 0.01 cents per mile. That is exactly what you are refering to and I do respect that. I, however, as a non top tier, don't collect bonuses and therefore will probably never be able to lower my cost to your level.</font>

I also have no problem if you or others refer to 4 cents/status mile runs. I am fine with that as well.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by keithguy:
[B]It's my opinion but I find that it is really not hard at all to price runs that are 2 cents per earned mile. Elite bonuses (100%) help and special promotions can help but sometimes the routings are just too darn good. For example, I booked me a $151 NW SEA-BNA fare that would net less than 2 cents per status mile (hence less than 1 cent per earned mile).
B]</font>

I need some confirmation here...

SEA-BNA nets 3954 status miles approx roundtrip or 7908 earned miles (assuming 100% Elite bonus).

So if I'm correct, this $151 tkt would net cost/mi of:
$.0381 per status mile
$.0190 per earned mile

Who's correct? Sorry for any confusion caused, tx.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by amexplat:
I need some confirmation here...

SEA-BNA nets 3954 status miles approx roundtrip or 7908 earned miles (assuming 100% Elite bonus).</font>

SEA-BNA-SEA non-stop both ways would earn you 3954 miles, however, there are many possible routings.

My $151 fare was the result of a PD316 ($25 off) coupon.

However, without any coupons/vouchers/discounts, a routing of SEA-EWR-ORD-IAH-BNA, BNA-MEM-EWR-MSP-LAX-SEA on NW is doable for $174.50US after taxes. This nets 9643 status miles (or 19286 earned miles).

$174.50 / 9643 status miles = 1.8 cents / status mile
$174.50 / 19286 earned miles = 0.9 cents / earned mile

Last week I booked me a round trip SEA-BNA using the following routing:

SEA-LAX-MSP-EWR-MEM-BNA
BNA-MEM-DTW-LAX-SEA

TOTAL COST: $174.50
TOTAL STATUS MILES: 8970
COST PER STATUS MILE: $0.01945
TOTAL INCLUDING ELITE BONUS MILES: 17940
COST PER MILE EARNED: $0.009726

Thanks to keithguy for pointing the way. The routings via IAH were tempting, but as an Alaska Mileage Plan member, I wanted to stay entirely with AS/NW in order to maximize my elite bonuses. (CO offers no elite bonus for AS Mileage Plan) Unfortunately, I was unable to return via EWR or I could have netted 9860 status miles and a coupla extra meals.


[This message has been edited by Seat 2A (edited 01-07-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
$0.04 per status mile is the basic standard, and that doesn't count bonus miles of any kind.

$0.02 per earned mile is the basic for a MR. A good mileage run will earn you miles at less, something like $0.015/mile.

An excellent run is when you go down to $0.01/mile.</font> About a year ago I got 6 cases of Kellogg's Mini-Wheats w/ the AA miles on them for 66 cents box(store promo $1 off w/coupon$1 off). 16 boxes in each case so that's 9600 miles for $63.36! Not a MR like usually defined here, but I did have to drive to 1/2 dozen stores to get them- and it only took me about 2 1/2 hours.

Because of the amount of time required to execute most MRs, I think there is a case to be made about putting a hard dollar value on your TIME...which would obviously jackup the cost per mile.

another thing people conveniently leave out of their calcuations is the cost to get to and from the airport.

in NYC, that cost is far from inconsequential.

to and from Newark Liberty from NYC is $50 each way by cab. even taking the train is about $12-$13 each way. the bus is $11 or $12 each way. i guess you could take the PATH and a bus, but boy is that a pain (and it isn't free).

[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 02-07-2003).]

I've pretty much given up mileage runs as of the end of last year. It's my view that the overall value of status has decreased, perhaps significantly, because of a number of factors:
1. increases to award levels, meaning the financial value of bonus miles is now less than before
2. reduction/elimination of meal service in FC
3. increased costs for buying upgrades (with cash or miles)
4. increased use of RJs (no more FC)
5. increased use of check-in kiosks (no real benefit to status for waiting in line for check-in)
6. increased risk of airline FF programs going out of business

I value my AAdvantage miles at 1.3 cents each; with other airline programs the figure is somewhat less. Finding mileage runs that generate miles at a cost less than that is possible, but very difficult, especially when you consider airport parking, hotel, etc. Since my MRs are limited to weekends, that makes it even more difficult. By the way, I can't understand people taking vacation time to do MRs! Unless you are taking a vacation, in which case it isn't a MR, that cost would need to be figured into your MR and would surely not make financial sense. In any case, if I am 1 or 2 trips short of reaching Platinum I may do a MR to hit that, but otherwise I won't bother collecting additional miles at a cost higher than I value the miles at.

Going back to the question of "what are miles worth to you" one has to consider the value of miles form one airline to the next.

For example, I am now firmly in the NW camp because I believe that their status miles, which give you (domestic) first class seating on any fare, are worth more than CO miles which do not. Also, I can upgrade to Europe for 40K roundtrip, which on CO would cost 50K, with no distinguishable difference in service (to me).

So when I started looking at miles seriously last year (yes, I'm a newbie - could you tell?) the above factors lead me to figure that I could live with as much as a nickel per status mile this year - while I build up to my first ever Platinum level. Once there, I'll figure it all differently given the 125% bonus.

if people are willing to fly over to hrs to get from coast to coast, they shouldn't complain about taking the long way to get to the airport. i'm sorry everything in life can't yield miles, but hey!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by lonman:
if people are willing to fly over to hrs to get from coast to coast, they shouldn't complain about taking the long way to get to the airport. i'm sorry everything in life can't yield miles, but hey!!</font>

You're just saying that 'cause you don't have to take the tunnel to EWR. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by notsosmart (edited 02-07-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fly co to see the yanks:
another thing people conveniently leave out of their calcuations is the cost to get to and from the airport. in NYC, that cost is far from inconsequential. to and from Newark Liberty from NYC is $50 each way by cab. even taking the train is about $12-$13 each way. the bus is $11 or $12 each way. i guess you could take the PATH and a bus, but boy is that a pain (and it isn't free).</font>

Hmmmm. It is a point to consider. BOS-JFK, the cheapest is from South Station is $25.00 via a bus in the morning or afternoon during a promotion, $42.00 at night and otrher routes. From Port Authority it is $1.50 via the Metro to JFK. AMTRAK is a financial nightmare and a ripoff (the Acela is not as fast as a rental car).

SHADO

As a newbie, how do you figure out the stops in the runs to achieve the low cost fares while maximizing the miles?

I usually need to make a run in December to maintain my platinum elite status on CO/NW and would love to hear how you figure out the runs and their availability......or is there another thread where this can be read?

Thanks

The other thing you have to include is the cost of an upgrade, for those of us that fly airlines that don't give unlimited free upgrades... In general, I upgrade flights of &gt; 800 miles because I am uncomfortable unless the seat next to me is open. If the flight is wide open, I'll usually downgrade back to coach, but I can't count on that.

I'm looking at two possible scenarios because I'm going to end up about 10k short of Platinum on AA this year:

1. BDL-DFW-SEA/overnight/SEA-STL-BDL, $277
2. A pair of ORD-STL-MCI-STL-ORD, $201 total

Scenario 1:
Status miles: About 5700
Upgrade cost: 13 x $40
Upgrades earned: 5700/10000 * $160 = -$91
Hotel cost: $40 via priceline (maybe less)
Total "cost": $746
Total cost/status mile: $0.13 (ouch!)

Scenario 2:
Status miles: 4000
Upgrade cost: $0 (exit row is fine for these)
Upgrades earned: 4000/10000 * $160 = -$64
Hotel cost: $0
Total "cost": $137
Total cost/status mile: $0.034

Now, if Scenario 1 ends up on a bunch of empty planes, it's the better choice. But I'll stick with Scenario 2 instead.

The big factor I always find missing from this debate is how people use miles. For this reason (and the issue of bonuses) I believe it is meaningless to try to establish a "standard" value for miles.

For example, I only ever use miles for free coach class trips. We like to do lots of travelling and I don't have that many miles. When I do so I generally only get 0.01 to 0.015 value for my miles. Eg. My fiance is coming to Italy with me in September - cost 60k AA miles - value about $600 - equals 0.01. Then we are going to India, Nepal and Thailand. Cost 70k AA and 40K United miles. Value about $1,500 so 0.014.

Therefore I only value miles at 0.015. With tier bonuses on UA and AA I still find quite a few milegage opportunities at this level. (eg. recent SFO-FLL deal - Cost $150, Miles earned - with bonuses - 11,320 = 0.013)

For those that usually pay Business or First class fares or buy higher fare classes and upgrade the value of miles used can be much higher - even above 0.05 per mile for those who exclusively buy and redeem for first class travel.

i didn't bother reading through this whole thread, but a non-inconsequential cost is incurred getting to and from the airport. and, in Manhattan, it can add up to more than the cost of the ticket.

just flew on the amazing venice trip. ticket was $140'ish + tax so about $210 all-in. cab to JFK was about $45 (left directly from work...couldn't do mass transit). boat to hotel was about $85 for two. boat to airport was about $85 for two. cab home from airport was $45 (fixed rate from JFK to Manhattan). ouch!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fly co to see the yanks:
i didn't bother reading through this whole thread, but a non-inconsequential cost is incurred getting to and from the airport. and, in Manhattan, it can add up to more than the cost of the ticket.

just flew on the amazing venice trip. ticket was $140'ish + tax so about $210 all-in. cab to JFK was about $45 (left directly from work...couldn't do mass transit). boat to hotel was about $85 for two. boat to airport was about $85 for two. cab home from airport was $45 (fixed rate from JFK to Manhattan). ouch!</font>

Can't speak to NYC transit (though I just went from Manhattan to LGA for $2 on Sunday) but in Venice, the Water Bus system is far cheaper than the Water Taxis. Yes, like any bus, it takes longer than a taxi, but that's the tradeoff.

Back to the original thread, I don't do MRs, only trips where I want to go to the destination. If there's a destination I want to go to, then I calculate the miles I'll get and the raw cash I have to pay for the ticket. If I'm still interested in the destination and not turned off by the total trip cost (including plane ticket) then I'll go. Picking up miles for future redemption is just an interesting side bonus for me. Granted, by the way I buy tickets, I usually end up getting status miles for $0.05 or less, and redeemable miles for $0.02 or less, but that doesn't matter to me because I enjoyed going wherever it was I went.

Everyone has to go with what works for them, because every case is different.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aussieinsf:
even above 0.05 per mile for those who exclusively buy and redeem for first class travel.</font>

You better believe it. Here's some basic math to back it up (from trips I have done this year or at least have ticketed right now).

SEA-LAX-SYD/MEL-LAX-SEA in QF F: $13,204 or 135,000 AS miles (9.7 cents per mile)

YVR-HKG-AKL-HKG-YVR in CX F: $12,578 or 145,000 AA miles (8.6 cents per mile)

LHR-JFK-LHR in BA R/F: ~10,000 or 125,000 BA miles (8.0 cents per mile)

LHR-CPT/JNB-LHR in BA F: $7,700 or 100,000 AA miles (7.7 cents per mile)

These are just a few examples of what can be done, and I will grant that some of these awards are no longer available (goodbye CX140A http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif ). There is also the issue of whether F/J values and prices are realistic. While clearly that are not, this is what the airlines are charging, which makes them the de facto market value. Apparently there is enough supply out there to meet these outrageous prices.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
These are just a few examples of what can be done, and I will grant that some of these awards are no longer available (goodbye CX140A http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif ). There is also the issue of whether F/J values and prices are realistic. While clearly that are not, this is what the airlines are charging, which makes them the de facto market value. Apparently there is enough supply out there to meet these outrageous prices. [/B]</font>

I agree with you there that the F/J prices are obviously at levels that the market will bear (and these prices change based on demand/supply). This makes these prices 'fair market value' from the airlines' point of view.

What is more relevant to the determination of the value of a FF mile to an individual however, is taking the price that he/she have been willing to pay had he/she not had the option of getting an award and then dividing that price by the # of miles.

For me this usually works out to 1.5 to 2 cents/mile.

For me... 2.5C status miles. I'm doing a few MR's to get AS MVP, so i picked up some cheap deals to go to TPA and MIA for less than $200 r/t. I figure by acquiring MVP status, the 50% bonus will really add up. A hopeful move to Japan, parents moving to Philly, a trip or two to Europe, the miles will really, really add up.

I also don't factor in food costs, but do factor in Hotel costs. Food would be eaten anyways since I'd have to eat, but the hotel room would be an extra cost. I do not count parking/travel to/from myself, since i'm also under the premise that i'd be using that money as some form of entertainment/material aquisition if I was not flying.

Unlike our New York metro friends, I gotta pay for parking, but no tolls, but have to pay for gas for the 110mi trip from my place in SD to LAX, and then about $12 for parking. So, for a 1 day out and back, i'm looking at an additional $30 in fees, which generally does not come close to the price of a ticket.

Funny how this thread was resurrected from the depths of the FT-MR archives.

I am always amazed at the committment of those flyers who start their mileage runs a fair way from the airport (like driving from San to Lax) or afrugal1 who lives in Petaluma and seems to do the grind down to SFO for mileage runs....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aussieinsf:
I am always amazed at the committment of those flyers who start their mileage runs a fair way from the airport (like driving from San to Lax) or afrugal1 who lives in Petaluma and seems to do the grind down to SFO for mileage runs....</font>

yeah, it's commitment. i just wish i had that kind of free time/vacation time. even if i had the commitment, there's still no way i could pull it off without getting fired.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by civicmon:


Funny how this thread was resurrected from the depths of the FT-MR archives.</font>

It shows that some people are really doing their homework before posting a message on a subject that has been already covered in the past. I like it! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fly co to see the yanks:
i just wish i had that kind of free time/vacation time. </font>

Time for a 3 or 4 day workweek http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Mileage runs fit in great when you have the extra day off each week.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tom911:
Time for a 3 or 4 day workweek http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Mileage runs fit in great when you have the extra day off each week.</font>

i guess that would make it much easier. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

(i.e., bump.)

Well, there are those of us that are in cities where our only service is commuter airlines. I would NEVER think of starting an MR here out of Chattanooga... However, I just spent the last two nights doing two MRs from ATL to LAX on DL. I have two more this weekend. For a total cost of $852, I'll net 62304 miles (including 2x bonus though there's a fight between DL and I brewing on that one and 1x status bonus). Since I've checked in using the kiosks and will continue to do so, I should net additional bonuses that will lower my cost per mile to below the current $0.0136.

Any new thoughts on this topic?

Any new thoughts on this topic?

I have read the many comments on this subject, and I have made several spreadsheets to try to evaluate the value of a mile and what it should cost to make status. In 2004 I made 1K lite on UA more on MR's than on actual trips. I have made every newbie mistake, and although I am improving my cost per mile, none of my MR's were huge bargains All my travel and most of Mr l2b's are on our dime. We would not buy C or F tkts, so I agree that I am not able to value the miles at the price of full fare F or ,C. My conclusion is different from that of other folks here as I have decided to determine a "worth it" or 'not worth it' value on the MP program over all. I started last year with about 10,000 miles and no status; husband started with about 33,000 and no status. I spent $3018 on airfare strictly on mileage runs. We both also bought several coach tkts for actual normal travel. Husband did no mileage runs. We got some miles from credit cards and some promotions, but none of the most lucrative stuff people here did.

So what did we get for $3018?

2 systemwide coach tkts (used last minute NRT-IAD rt when the cheapest fare was $1000)
1 fly 3 coach tkt (not used yet)
1 fly 6 F tkt (not yet used)
2 rt upgrades IAD-LHR (with miles)
2rt upgrades IAD-HNL (with miles)
Status: me 1 K status; Mr l2b 2P
20 500 mile upgrades (all mine)
2 CS1's (not yet credited, but counting on them)
6 SWU's
RTW credits: me 18; Mr l2b 6 (to date)
Mileage balances: me 99,000; Mr l2b 90,000
Right to reserve exit row (me) and E+ (he)

If UA dies, we will be SOL, but if they survive, no matter how you look at it, we should be able to derive $3018 of value from the above.

My conclusion: I will try to improve my price per mile but so far I think mileage runs to make elite status in the MP program is "worth it" to me.

Time for a 3 or 4 day workweek. Mileage runs fit in great when you have the extra day off each week.

I told my boss that I will not take any long vacation this year, but take 1 or 2 days off from time to time to build long weekends. He's totally fine with it other than asking if I am happy with my work. I assured him that I am not doing this to fly out for interviews. End of story.

alright folks...so with the increase in costs that the recent economic situation has brought on....

what do you think a good MR should cost per mile?

alright folks...so with the increase in costs that the recent economic situation has brought on....

what do you think a good MR should cost per mile?

I think a 4 year old post shouldn't be bumped, and this is no longer the correct forum for this discussion.

I think a 4 year old post shouldn't be bumped, and this is no longer the correct forum for this discussion.

last i checked this forum is the "mileage run discussion" forum, and further I'm sure people like you would have flamed anyone who would have begun another thread on this topic without using the search function.

if you don't have anything useful to add to the thread, then don't say anything.

I believe this thread was "The final answer". So I guess we don't have to wonder any more.