http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=A5OFPZI2IBN1SCRBAE 0CFFA?type=topNews&storyID=4219279 (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=A5OFPZI2IBN1SCRBAE0CF FA?type=topNews&storyID=4219279)

So, is this still a scare tactic vis-a-vis the unions? $150 million (Shuttle) doesn't go far at the current cash burn.

[This message has been edited by TPA us ff (edited Jan 27, 2004).]

Still a tactic IMHO. They need to find cash from somewhere and if the unions won't budge on pay and work rules the cash must come from somewhere - they would be foolish to NOT explore these asset sales IMO.

I hope it does not happen - we all know that you can not shrink an airline into profitability. That never works...

Im still confused why they want to sell the shuttle. I always thaught the shuttle was their most profitable product.

I saw that JetBlue was also involved. Man, what a coup it would be if they gained the Shuttle. I know my company would be all over the Jetblue shuttle flights up to BOS.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rd7242:
Im still confused why they want to sell the shuttle. I always thaught the shuttle was their most profitable product.</font>

Dividend Miles is their most profitable product.

The Shuttle has been losing money for quite a while now and, if left in US Airways' hands, will likely continue to hemorage until "business travel" (defined as people willing to pay $1,000+ for walk-up fares) returns to 1999 levels.

It might not be a bad idea to sell it. It does sort of stand alone and apart from the rest of the business. From a "shrink the airline" POV its probably the least harmful piece that could be sold.

"Delta, which already flies an East Coast Shuttle, was said to be interested in US Airways' non-hub flying slots and "pretty much everything" except the shuttle, according to one source."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not Delta, anybody but Delta!

Except when 90% of your flying is from the shuttle.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TomBascom:
Dividend Miles is their most profitable product.

The Shuttle has been losing money for quite a while now and, if left in US Airways' hands, will likely continue to hemorage until "business travel" (defined as people willing to pay $1,000+ for walk-up fares) returns to 1999 levels.

It might not be a bad idea to sell it. It does sort of stand alone and apart from the rest of the business. From a "shrink the airline" POV its probably the least harmful piece that could be sold.</font>

Delta would be a nightmare...

And now for the "I Predict" segment of the show.

IMHO this isn't just showcasing for the unions anymore...me thinks there is something more serious going on here.

AA will probably get the Shuttle in the end...while DL pick up more east coast assets of US for a 'Song'. NW or DL buys the PHL gates and CO or DL buy CLT's gates out. PIT becomes nothing more than IND...FL moves in to start northern 'hub'.

RSA gets a few bucks out of the deals with Ch. 7 not far away for whatever is left.

DM accounts get converted into SM so the evil ATL empire gets a firm grip on the eastern seaboard north south routes for a few more years. ('oh boy' more SM, just what I need)

I don't usually fall in for the sky is falling routine, but I think US is coming to the end of the road this time - it just is not a viable enterprise as currently constituted (i.e. TW two years ago).

Also as per TW a few years ago, most/all US employees will find themselves out on the street sooner rather than later due to 'staple city'. Too many furloughed employees at acquiring carriers (at lower rates more likely) - especially where DL picks up assets (no unions on property with the exception of DALPA)

If it is sold, my order of preference would be:

1)AirTran (keep/make fares low)

2)JetBlue (same as #1)

3)American (At least these flights won't be a RJ anymore)

82)Aeroflot

99)Delta (Watch the fares go through the roof)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I've got to believe that Delta would be the last airline US would want to sell assets to if its management plans to continue operating on any basis. Delta is already US's top competitor, so handing it more market share in New York, Boston or Washington would make it all the more difficult for the shrunken-but-surviving US to draw passengers from Delta.

What US will want to do, if it can, is sell these assets to the weakest buyer willing to pay a market price. That's exactly what Frank Lorenzo did when he was forced to sell the New York Air shuttle when he bought Eastern. He sold it to Pan Am, which long ran it as the No. 2 shuttle in the market. Lorenzo may be the scourge of commerical aviation, but at least that move made sense strategically. Of course, if Delta offers a bid that's substantially higher than anyone else, US would all but have to accept it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DCAview:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I've got to believe that Delta would be the last airline US would want to sell assets to if its management plans to continue operating on any basis. Delta is already US's top competitor, so handing it more market share in New York, Boston or Washington would make it all the more difficult for the shrunken-but-surviving US to draw passengers from Delta.</font>

Sorry but U.S. will not survive - this is a fire sale. Hopefully UA will get its loan and make it. I'd hate to go over to the dark side - Delta.

Regardless of what happens with asset sales or with US itself, my prediction is no one will pick-up the Dividend Miles program. Those miles will be lost forever.

Where is the Star Alliance to save the day they way they saved Air Canada? I know that a us airline can't be more than some percentage (25%? 45%?) foreigned owned, but why can't Lufthansa bid for the slots?

Lufthansa cant fly out of LGA, correct? I know its a pretty restricted airport. I think B6 is the real sleeper here and if they score more routes from LGA and the add the shuttle, theyve gained even more market share in NYC.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by whlinder:
Where is the Star Alliance to save the day they way they saved Air Canada? I know that a us airline can't be more than some percentage (25%? 45%?) foreigned owned, but why can't Lufthansa bid for the slots? </font>

A foreign airline can not operate flights entirely within another country, the Airline term for that is "Cabatoge"

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kdinino:
I saw that JetBlue was also involved. Man, what a coup it would be if they gained the Shuttle. I know my company would be all over the Jetblue shuttle flights up to BOS.</font>

Why would B6 Shuttle flights be any cheaper than DL or US? This is a very competitive market already, with DL, US and [somewhat] AA on LGA-BOS plus Amtrak, and DL, US and AA running DCA-BOS as well. I don't think B6 is any more interested in charging a below-market price than any other business! Fares might go down if AA increased capacity/ran mainline jets, thereby increasing capacity, but at some point that would just cause passengers to substitute back from Acela to air travel, leaving Amtrak's owners to pick up the tab.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rd7242:
Except when 90% of your flying is from the shuttle.</font>

You just reinforced the "stands alone, apart from the rest of the airline" POV...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
Regardless of what happens with asset sales or with US itself, my prediction is no one will pick-up the Dividend Miles program. Those miles will be lost forever.</font>

IMHO if U.S. just closed the doors, maybe. But in a firesale situation it is a huge block of loyal customers that moves as one or scatters to the wind. Especially if it is DL, they will need all the help they can to get US pax on to their planes.

This might even be a chance for a U.S. carrier to execute a KLM match (fly this much on us - and we will match your US account) deal like they did a few years ago in response to the SN/SR collapses.

I don't really care that much one way or the other (I 'only' have about 300K DM that I don't have time to use in the next 6 months), but I find it hard to believe that somebody wouldn't want that customer base for basically nothing.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
Regardless of what happens with asset sales or with US itself, my prediction is no one will pick-up the Dividend Miles program. Those miles will be lost forever.</font>

Why?

Dividend Miles is profitable.

Throwing the miles away would be like ripping out F seats to LAS at the height of a wildly successful First Class promotion...

Ok, I guess I answered my own "why?" question!

But aside from incredible management incompetence -- why?

I've said it elsewhere, but at some point the Div. Miles Program will be bought up by one of the majors - even if it's for pennies on the dollar. That database of potential east-coast based (primarily) frequent flyers will go to someone. I'm not worries about the miles - they will be good here on US or there (AA, DL, UA, ???) when this all plays out.

I agree with Tom and geo. Other than costs of administration, these programs really don’t cost the carrier much. Take a look at the company’s recent 10K filing

http://investor.usairways.com/EdgarDetail.cfm?CompanyID=U&CIK=701345&FID=92838 5-03-865&SID=03-00 (http://investor.usairways.com/EdgarDetail.cfm?CompanyID=U&CIK=701345&FID=928385-03-865&SID=03-00)

and read how they treat the costs of the Dividend Miles program. They clearly state that because of tight inventory control, they rarely misplace a revenue customer. The 10K says:

“US Airways uses the incremental cost method to account for liabilities associated with Dividend Miles. Estimated future travel awards are valued at the estimated average incremental cost of carrying one additional passenger. Incremental costs include unit costs for passenger food, beverages and supplies, fuel, reservations, communications, insurance and denied boarding compensation. No profit or overhead margin is included in the accrual for incremental costs.”

This “best customer list” is an incredible asset to any airline and a valued resource. While I sadly think that US Airways is on the way out, I’m not particularly worried about my 1.5 million miles. They’ll end up with someone elses program.

[This message has been edited by TPA us ff (edited Jan 27, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TPA us ff:
I’m not particularly worried about my 1.5 million miles. They’ll end up with someone elses program.
</font>

Sounds like you are rooting for AA! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif Lifetime Platinum would be just around the corner for you!

The BOS to DCA shuttle route currently has historically extremely high fares, and perhaps B6 could bring those back in line with flyers expecations. On most days if you search for lowest published on this city pair, the lowest one is $228 roundtrip, and its loaded with restrictions. Even corporate and government fares BOS to DCA are just under $300 for basically an unrestricted ticket. Even in year 2000, 2001, etc., it was not uncommon to fly this route for $100-$150. Also in the 1990's this route was much much less expensive than it is today. One factor is that US is the only carrier with jets on the route, and the only carrier with a real shuttle. AA and DL fly RJ's on the route, with much more limited frequencies. Also the planes are often only booked between 20-70 pax. I know an awful lot of flyers who would travel more if the fares were reasonable. People remember those $100-$150 fares, and they aren't going to pay a 100% or higher premium for less service. The service has also been significantly reduced. In the 1990's they would serve meals even in coach on this route, and now you are lucky to get a basic beverage service. Perhaps B6 could bring some innovation here. I don't know what the impact of AA would be on fares and experience.

Delta won't be allowed to buy up most of US Airways; Delta would then be the overwhelming market leader on the East Coast. Antitrust issues would block that. Thank goodness, as Delta would be the worst.

I don't see why United doesn't just merge with US now (perhaps via a stock-for-stock merger, to save cash) as long as the government would OK it; United could somewhat ditch its troubled Dulles hub and largely replace those flights with ones from DCA, and United, being bankrupt, could reject US's executory contracts.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by whlinder:
Where is the Star Alliance to save the day they way they saved Air Canada? I know that a us airline can't be more than some percentage (25%? 45%?) foreigned owned, but why can't Lufthansa bid for the slots? </font>

If I recall, it was Lufthansa and United who provided most of the bail out cash for Air Canada (remember seeing something about UA getting repaid for that a few months back). LH hasn't been doing gangbusters lately but UA certainly doesn't have the cash to bail out someone these days.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NYCommuter:
I don't see why United doesn't just merge with US now (perhaps via a stock-for-stock merger, to save cash) as long as the government would OK it; United could somewhat ditch its troubled Dulles hub and largely replace those flights with ones from DCA, and United, being bankrupt, could reject US's executory contracts. </font>

UA would probably reduce PHL before it would dump IAD, Dulles isn't really a 'hub' so much as a gateway, everything rolls in and out at 5pm (I exaggerate). Washington-Europe is too important to UA and the Washington business (govt, IMF, World Bank) isn't something they'd want to give up on.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by whlinder:
Where is the Star Alliance to save the day they way they saved Air Canada? </font>


The last I heard, AC was still operating under CCAA (canadian Eqiv of CH11). Saying that the Star Alllinace has saved AC might be premature.

Darn Huskie fans, don't know anything about airlines.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif



------------------
Proud to be CO free!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
If it is sold, my order of preference would be:

1)AirTran (keep/make fares low)

2)JetBlue (same as #1)

3)American (At least these flights won't be a RJ anymore)

82)Aeroflot
</font>

You left out...
Growing wings, greyhound, hitchiking, and stowing away in box cars.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">[B}
99)Delta (Watch the fares go through the roof)

[/B]</font>

In all honesty, I'm starting to get worried. My choices out of RIC (to most of my business destinations) aren't great. I think if UA didn't buy US (or the routes) that I would be back on DL. This is not a promising prospect.

I just need US to make it through May so that I can still go on my honeymoon (although its actually UA metal, but purchased on DM miles).

My prediction...

- AA will get the shuttle

- 2 years into running the shuttle, they will make it worse than it is

- 2 years after that, they will DROP IT

Anytime AA acquires (AirCal, TWA, etc) they turn it to dust...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NickP 1K:
My prediction...

- AA will get the shuttle

- 2 years into running the shuttle, they will make it worse than it is

- 2 years after that, they will DROP IT

Anytime AA acquires (AirCal, TWA, etc) they turn it to dust...</font>

Im not sure I disagree with your conclusion but am not sure what you mean about TWA. I wouldnt fly TWA unless I had to, I find AA much better on those routes. I realize they really cut flights into STL but it is hard to justify them not doing so. From an operations point, it is better in my opinion.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NickP 1K:
My prediction...

- AA will get the shuttle

- 2 years into running the shuttle, they will make it worse than it is

- 2 years after that, they will DROP IT

Anytime AA acquires (AirCal, TWA, etc) they turn it to dust...</font>

Maybe they just dump what is not profitable. By your estimations, those Eastern Carribean routes and TWA (1991) LHR access have gone down hill too! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by duxfan:

The last I heard, AC was still operating under CCAA (canadian Eqiv of CH11). Saying that the Star Alllinace has saved AC might be premature.

Darn Huskie fans, don't know anything about airlines.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

</font>

Lol... You're just mad at having 42 points scored on you for the second year in a row...

I haven't been paying attention to Air Canada since I sold my shares in them years ago when all of this was going down. But the *A has probably prolonger their existence at the minumum.

But theoretically, why couldn't LH or another foreign airline purchase DCA/LGA slots and lease them back to US? US would be operating the flights, so it doesn't violate any aviation agreements/laws that I know of... it gets US cash fast and keeps the assets in the hands of Star, which was the reason US was brought into the alliance in the first place.

Latest News...

By MICHELINE MAYNARD and ANDREW ROSS SORKIN
Several airlines, large and small, have made offers for the major assets of
US Airways, including its East Coast shuttle and gates at several airports,
people briefed on the negotiations said last night.
American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, JetBlue Airways and AirTran made
preliminary bids last week in a process led by Morgan Stanley, these people
said. Mesa Air Lines, a regional carrier serving the West Coast, has also said
it is interested in bidding on US Airways' assets.
The board of US Airways is set to consider the offers at a meeting early next
month.
The airline, a unit of the US Airways Group, based in Arlington Va., emerged
from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection less than a year ago. But US Airways, the
nation's seventh-largest carrier, has been struggling since. It is pressing its
unions for further concessions as it tries to cut more than the $200 million to
$300 million it had planned to trim from its operations this year.
Late last year, it said that it had to revise its business plan to meet
stiffened competition from low-fare carriers including Southwest Airlines,
which plans to start service in May to Philadelphia, one of US Airways' three
hubs.
US Airways operations in Philadelphia are among the operations the airline
put up for sale, as well as its other hubs in Charlotte, N.C., and Pittsburgh;
gates at La Guardia Airport and Logan Airport in Boston; its US Airways Express
regional carrier; and its East Coast shuttle.
The shuttle was thought to have attracted the most interest among a group of
carriers that made offers for the airline's assets, people briefed on the bids
said.
US Airways has never said definitively what it would sell. And, earlier this
month, David G. Bronner, the airline's chairman, said that US Airways had
retained Morgan Stanley "to help us see if anything makes sense."
Indeed, the bids may not necessarily be to US Airways' liking. For instance,
the US Airways Shuttle was only expected to bring $100 million to $150 million,
people briefed on the offers said, versus the $300 million bid that American
made to purchase the shuttle in 1997.
US Airways has operated the shuttle since 1992, as part of a joint venture
that ran the carrier, and took control of it in 1998.
Moreover, some of the airlines involved may encounter obstacles to completing
the deals. For instance, while American, a unit of AMR, has been interested in
buying the shuttle for years, it may have trouble winning the backing of its
labor unions, which granted the airline deep cuts in wages and benefits last
year when American said it was on the verge of Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
American or any other airline that purchases the shuttle would have to absorb
US Airways' union members, who have vowed that a new buyer must honor their
labor contracts. That could lead to sticky situations involving the seniority
of pilots, flight attendants and other employees.
Robert W. Mann Jr., an industry consultant based in Port Washington, N.Y.,
saw two strategies in US Airways' efforts to find buyers for its assets. First,
Mr. Mann said, the airline most likely wanted to put pressure on its labor
unions, which granted the airline two sets of contract concessions in
bankruptcy, but thus far have resisted any further cuts.
Since the assets were put up for sale in early January, US Airways' pilots
agreed to hold discussions with the airline on its financial problems, although
the pilots' union said the meetings were not formal contract talks.
Mr. Mann also said the company was most likely curious to see what its assets
might bring in the industry's difficult economic climate. "It's almost as if
they were dribbling out a little bit of honey to see whether any bees would
arrive," Mr. Mann said.

Where is Lufthansa someone asked.
They were in the process of offering financial help to UA when US congress speaker of the house Hastert (from UA's home state) and house leader Tom Delay decided to have their public "We will punish France and Germany for not backing the US in Iraq". The offer was withdrawn within a week.

"American wants the shuttle" ??? They already fly the shuttle WITH RJs. There are slots and gates available in BOS and Washington National. American had more slots at LGA but didn't use them. They can compete on any route they want since deregulation THEY JUST DO NOT WANT THE COMPETITION. The AMTRAK is what is taking the passengers away from the shuttles. ALL
airlines are down and in some cases downsizing the aircraft on shuttle routes
the "hassle factor" at airports isn't helping either.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sassamanlaw:
"Delta, which already flies an East Coast Shuttle, was said to be interested in US Airways' non-hub flying slots and "pretty much everything" except the shuttle, according to one source."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not Delta, anybody but Delta! </font>

Get a life...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FrequentStark:
Latest News...

And, earlier this month, David G. Bronner, the airline's chairman, said that US Airways had retained Morgan Stanley "to help us see if anything makes sense." </font>

Methinks that they should have retained Morgan Stanley a few years ago if they need help in determining what makes sense http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Vikedog64:
Get a life...</font>

You must be one of those rare individuals who likes paying through the nose for his travel...you should get a job as BBB's intern.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sassamanlaw:
You must be one of those rare individuals who likes paying through the nose for his travel...you should get a job as BBB's intern.</font>

Lateral job move - probably was already Leo's...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sassamanlaw:
You must be one of those rare individuals who likes paying through the nose for his travel...you should get a job as BBB's intern.</font>

No, I am an employee. I read this board all the time and while I understand everyones displeasure over the skymiles changes, some of the posts I read are absolutely vicious. All of you want the most value for your dollar, and I understand that. But alot of you seem to feel that the airlines in general, not just DAL owe you the same service and perks for less money than you were paying a few years ago. How many of your employers do that? In my opinion, the tide has changed. everyone seems to love the LCC's..well guess what..the majors will mirror them in a few years. I read Joe Brancatellis column on "Joe Sent Me".com and all he does is praise the LCC's. Well che will have his fantasy domestic product soon. What does that mean for the rest of you who cherish the coveted F/C seat. Less options...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Vikedog64:
No, I am an employee. I read this board all the time and while I understand everyones displeasure over the skymiles changes, some of the posts I read are absolutely vicious. All of you want the most value for your dollar, and I understand that. But alot of you seem to feel that the airlines in general, not just DAL owe you the same service and perks for less money than you were paying a few years ago. How many of your employers do that? In my opinion, the tide has changed. everyone seems to love the LCC's..well guess what..the majors will mirror them in a few years. I read Joe Brancatellis column on "Joe Sent Me".com and all he does is praise the LCC's. Well che will have his fantasy domestic product soon. What does that mean for the rest of you who cherish the coveted F/C seat. Less options...</font>

My problem with Delta is not Skymiles (I'm not even a member) but the fact Delta has never been close to US or UA in the fares it charges - hence my infrequent use of the airline. My fear would be that they would grab the Philly hub which is, more or less, the airport I fly out of most of the time. If that happens I have to pull more money out of MY POCKET to get to my destination or do multiple connects on other carriers.

Furthermore, while you may be a great person and this is by no means a personal attack, I find that the Delta front line people don't have the "anything for a customer" attitude that US had prior to Chapter 11. (Who can blame them for a lack of moral now). Case and point... two or three years ago I was flying Delta Connection for Huntington to Cincy. I saw them load my two bags on the plane. I get to Cincy and one is missing. After waiting for 15 minutes the belt turns off and I go to get help. Their response "Check the other belts it may be on one of them, if you still can't find it you can then fill out a form". Gee, thanks for the help. That's the last time I set foot on a Delta flight.
P.S. I found the bag on other belt after a 15 search.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sassamanlaw:
My problem with Delta is not Skymiles (I'm not even a member) but the fact Delta has never been close to US or UA in the fares it charges - hence my infrequent use of the airline. My fear would be that they would grab the Philly hub which is, more or less, the airport I fly out of most of the time. If that happens I have to pull more money out of MY POCKET to get to my destination or do multiple connects on other carriers.

Furthermore, while you may be a great person and this is by no means a personal attack, I find that the Delta front line people don't have the "anything for a customer" attitude that US had prior to Chapter 11. (Who can blame them for a lack of moral now). Case and point... two or three years ago I was flying Delta Connection for Huntington to Cincy. I saw them load my two bags on the plane. I get to Cincy and one is missing. After waiting for 15 minutes the belt turns off and I go to get help. Their response "Check the other belts it may be on one of them, if you still can't find it you can then fill out a form". Gee, thanks for the help. That's the last time I set foot on a Delta flight.
P.S. I found the bag on other belt after a 15 search. </font>

While I understand your legitimate complaint,yourm complaint is another persons compliment. I hear complaint after complaint about American and United. All of the majors are the same in my opinion.

I agree with sassamanlaw's view of Delta. Last year I spent about $6000 of my own money on US Airways tickets and am now Gold Preferred; if I had spent the same amount on Delta for tickets to make the same trips, I wouldn't have qualified for any kind of status since Delta doesn't care at all about people flying on reasonably priced tickets (in my case, $400+ r/t for a trip 600 miles each way). I don't need a ton of perks- just shorter lines and upgrades if the seats are available for long flights- and $6000 surely should merit something.

[This message has been edited by NYCommuter (edited Jan 28, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NYCommuter:
I agree with sassamanlaw's view of Delta. Last year I spent about $6000 of my own money on US Airways tickets and am now Gold Preferred; if I had spent the same amount on Delta for tickets to make the same trips, I wouldn't have qualified for any kind of status since Delta doesn't care at all about people flying on reasonably priced tickets (in my case, $400+ r/t for a trip 600 miles each way). I don't need a ton of perks- just shorter lines and upgrades if the seats are available for long flights- and $6000 surely should merit something.

[This message has been edited by NYCommuter (edited Jan 28, 2004).]</font>

I spent less than $5000 on Delta last year as a Gold Medallion, and 92% of the flown miles were LUT fares.

How is possible to spend $6000 and not even get Silver Medallion?

------------------
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." -- Mark Twain

Last year I flew about 50,000 miles; on US the fare I pay is an H or K fare, but on Delta it was an insULT fare, so tickets get 1/2 mileage credit, so I'd be just under 25,000 miles, despite shelling out $6000 per year, which would get me zilch on Delta. I'm not a greedy passenger; I just need shorter check-in lines and upgrades if the seats are available-- I don't even need drinks (in plastic glasses or not).

[This message has been edited by NYCommuter (edited Jan 28, 2004).]

With Delta's 750 qualification mile minimum effective 1/1/2004, the same 82 600 mile trips will easily get you Silver this year (30,750 MQM's).

------------------
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." -- Mark Twain

[This message has been edited by JS (edited Jan 28, 2004).]

This may be slightly off topic, but while we complain so much about Delta/Continental's .5 EQMs, we must remember that BA offers .25 miles for discount fares.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aa4ever:
This may be slightly off topic, but while we complain so much about Delta/Continental's .5 EQMs, we must remember that BA offers .25 miles for discount fares. </font>

And BA's 0.25 miles don't count for elite status qualification - you can fly LHR-JFK twice a week for a year and you still have blue status at the end of it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aa4ever:
This may be slightly off topic, but while we complain so much about Delta/Continental's .5 EQMs, we must remember that BA offers .25 miles for discount fares. </font>

That's kind of like comparing the winter season in the northeast with the atmosphere on Jupiter.

I really don't care what BA does. And I hope that it backfires on them. Just because another carrier is royally &lt;pun!&gt; screwing its customers doesn't mean we should accept a crappy FF program from our carrier(s) of choice.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Vikedog64:
While I understand your legitimate complaint,yourm complaint is another persons compliment. I hear complaint after complaint about American and United. All of the majors are the same in my opinion.</font>

Thought not in most opinions around here...

The 'vicious' expressions towards DL that you just don't see on any forum (with the possible exception of CO at times - I wonder why? - hee, hee...) are for a reason.

It's not a sense of 'entitlement' or wanting something for nothing. Many of us who (used to) drop hefty five figure sums DL's way have had the distinct feeling that VA. Ave. seems bent on 'sticking it' to their customer base wherever they think they can get away with it for the last 4-5 years.

I just took my business elsewhere, and am perfectly content to watch (and giggle at) DL upper management flail around from the sidelines trying to figure out what went wrong as their monopoly markets (and biggest guarantee of high RASMs) continue to erode.



[This message has been edited by CoMooter (edited Jan 29, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JS:
With Delta's 750 qualification mile minimum effective 1/1/2004, the same 82 600 mile trips will easily get you Silver this year (30,750 MQM's).

</font>

Why in the world would someone chose Silver Medallion (bottom tier) with DL over Gold Preferred (mid tier) on US or any other carrier for that matter?

Is DL paying you for these endorsements of their program per chance? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif (just kidding)

Looks like Virgin (http://www.thisismoney.com/20040201/nm73706.html) is one of the interested airlines.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BillMorrow:
Looks like Virgin (http://www.thisismoney.com/20040201/nm73706.html) is one of the interested airlines.</font>

I think that would make things REAL interesting. I would like to see what someone like him does in the US market. A relative of mine was on a Virgin flight transatlantic that he was one. She said he went through the plane asking the FAs and the passengers what they thought of the airline, their likes and dislikes, what was important to them so forth. Duh, can you imagine anyone from US air doing that? I would love to see someone who knows how to run a customer service business and thinks outside the box set up shop in the US. Hasnt happened since Kelleher, it would be great to see it again.

[This message has been edited by GadgetFreak (edited Feb 01, 2004).]

Some of this is probably posturing, to wring as much out of the help as they can. American already has the slots it needs to run its existing "baby" shuttle (with RJ's). More likely, they'd like to get hold of the LaGuardia terminal. With the reducton in point to point flying by US, they hardly need that terrific facility. The whole thing is just a meltdown.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:
A relative of mine was on a Virgin flight transatlantic that he was one. She said he went through the plane asking the FAs and the passengers what they thought of the airline, their likes and dislikes, what was important to them so forth. Duh, can you imagine anyone from US air doing that? I would love to see someone who knows how to run a customer service business and thinks outside the box set up shop in the US. Hasnt happened since Kelleher, it would be great to see it again.

</font>

What about David Neeleman from JetBlue? I've never flown 'em, and this could just be marketing drivel.. but here's what it says on http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/index.html

"One of the most enjoyable parts of my job is meeting customers onboard when I fly JetBlue each week. I always ask customers what they like most about flying with us, but also what they'd change."

-Robert

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rwinn:
What about David Neeleman from JetBlue? I've never flown 'em, and this could just be marketing drivel.. but here's what it says on http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/index.html

"One of the most enjoyable parts of my job is meeting customers onboard when I fly JetBlue each week. I always ask customers what they like most about flying with us, but also what they'd change."

-Robert</font>

Good point, I hadnt even thought of them. I would still say it would be nice to have Virgin move in though. The more people that realize it is a customer service business the better.

I have said this before. The people who run the place probably don't fly it much. If they did, they wouldn't make some of the decisions they do. Having roughed up the help so much, they probably fly on other carriers (they all give each other pass priveledges), to avoid confrontation. If I'm a low cost carrier, I'm just praying you copy my marketing. Firstly, it destroys any semblance of difference. Secondly, once the customer decides there's no difference, I get the nod because I execute better. One minute they are selling the crown jewels, the next they say they are going to repay the big government loan (if they had that kind of cash, I doubt they'd be running these $130 roundtrip sales). It's a miserable operating environment for airlines in general, but they sure don't help themselves much by continuing to tell everybody they are selling big pieces of the business. If you are going to do it, then just do it, and let us read about it later.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CoMooter:
[B] I just took my business elsewhere, and am perfectly content to watch (and giggle at) DL upper management flail around from the sidelines trying to figure out what went wrong as their monopoly markets (and biggest guarantee of high RASMs) continue to erode.

[B]</font> - that's funny.

A quote from a JetBlue passenger recently in article really struck me: "you feel like a human being when you get off the plane". Ask Delta passengers if they feel like they're human after getting off Delta planes.

Not asking to be treated like royalty. Just as a human being.

Since Jetblue doesn't fly around the SE, I have to choose between Delta and USAir. Guess which one I am choosing?

That is why I took my business elsewhere.

deelmaker you really encapsulated the problem. US needs to give me a reason to fly them. Same for anyone not in a fortress. On any given ticket purchase I am finding it harder to find that reason. And you are precisely right about matching the LCCs. All considered people would rather fly the LCCs if it were for the added service US could (did) provide. In a head to head with someone like JetBlue there wont be anyone flying US unless they provide some better service, food etc.

Gadget, it's just basic marketing. If you can get the other guy to play your game, you kill him. A certain amount of his customers are "brand loyal". That is, they won't change unless they literally get pushed out. Once you get him to your level, a)you can play the game better than he can, and b) he confuses his customer base, and they go up for grabs. The object is to provoke the other guy into responding. At USAirways, that's their middle name. It amazes me that the company never seems to know who its customer is, starting a few years ago with the attempt to limit perks for what it perceived to be a small portion of its top elites using a disproportionate amount of benefits. It wasn't until after the damage was done that they discovered their numbers were wrong, and it turned out corporate America liked a discount too.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pgalore:
Ask Delta passengers if they feel like they're human after getting off Delta planes.

</font>

This reminds me of DL ads in the LAX-SFO shuttle war with UA and AA some years ago. The DL ad picked at the other carriers cattle car environment, depicting Holstein cow heads hanging out of a plane's windows! How ironic!