Decided to book a last minute flight LGW-ORD. US web site said $367 per person, standard discounted coach. In addition to having to pay $100ish in tax per person, I called to upgrade only to find I had booked a "W" class fare. I was told I can't upgrade.

Apparently the "W" fare class was just created so they could be in line with Lufthansa for Star-Alliance purposes.

My DMUTA3 does not address "W" class fares, because they just changed to this fare class. When I called to put myself on the upgrade list, they basically told me to buzz off.

Our receipt even says I can upgrade it, but the rep told me I can't upgrade it with my DMUTA3 and that I can't upgrade it with my miles either.

I have spoken to a handful of reps from USAir, and none of them recognize my point. They all just say I can't upgrade my fare. No one will give me the time of day with regard to upgrading it. My only option is to spend at least $150 per person more to change the fare code, or to obtain credit and buy another ticket.

What do I do? Isn't this completely unreasonable? What is going on?!

Is this what I get for being so loyal that we have spent nearly $4,000 worth of tickets, out of our own personal money, in the past two weeks?
--Alex

Tell me about it. I am on a W fare MUC-PHL on the 14th Feb. 9.5 hours in coach is going to be brutal.

There is only one way to upgrade a W fare that I am aware of - you need to score a DS0084 cert.

I'm afraid I'm missing the point of your rant. The "Our receipt even says I can upgrade it" is what confuses me.

IIRC, the upgrade certs list what fares you can upgrade. W is not one of them. Before the code alignment, V would have been the fare on your ticket. That would not have been upgradeable either.

So I guess I join the " none of them recognize my point" club. You appear to be upset because you bought a fare that is both listed as non-upgradeable on the website and not listed as upgradeable on the cert you want to use.

Explain the confusion I list above - does the receipt say "this ticket is upgradeable with a DMUTA3" on it? If so, you have a case.

And what does *A have to do with this? W wasn't "created" - it is just a rename of the old, non-upgradeable V. I guarantee that a trans-Atlantic <$400 fare would have been a non-upgradeable V before also.

Sorry, but you are flying 4000+ miles across the ocean for <$500 out of pocket. I don’t feel you are being treated unfairly. Been there, done that, paid the $200 extra to sit up front. It’s worth it.

How about the obvious solution? Cancel the ticket. If you bought it last minute like you say (ie today), you have 24 hours to cancel it for no fee. Only time you dont have 24 hours is if its less than 24 hours until your flight.

Then you could look for upgradeable fares.

By the way - the upgrade language youre seeing on your fare rules probably refers to 'upgrading' the ticket to a higher fare class (eg paying up) not upgrading to the next class of service. Example: you buy a W fare and want to buy V instead - like youre trying to do. This is confusing language to be sure.

Just trying to help. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by hscottm (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

Hi Alex:

I feel for you. My experience with US customer service is that they would'nt recognize a "customer" or know how to give "service" if it jumped up and bit them in the .... C'mon folks, admit it, the airline just sucks! There are some very nice people that work for them at the gates and on the planes, but that sedms to be it.

I know this is my own personal rant now, but here is my experience with them, having only flew them 17 flights over the past 15 days:

2 flights ontime, PHL-CLT twice
2 cancelled flights because no crew, and NO compensation!
3 changes of aircraft, on two occasions we had to de-board and walk to the other side of CLT
5 mis-connects
(1 weather delay, not their fault)
Average delay was 90 minutes. They will not give me credit for two mis-connects, which has shorted me 6,000 LH status miles (now at 95,000 M&M status miles and now I'll have to spend more to become Senator).

Just my .02, but they really do suck.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ayb1:
[B]Decided to book a last minute flight LGW-ORD.
My DMUTA3 does not address "W" class fares, because they just changed to this fare class. When I called to put myself on the upgrade list, they basically told me to buzz off.[B][QUOTE]

Now this is interesting! This is where I get on my high horse with Airways. All the majors to be fair.

Fare Rules are NOT supposed to be understood my the customer in the Big Six world of Yield management. The BBB's of the world think nothing of this type of thing. To them it's very simple. If they change the fare code for the lowest fare from V to W then no biggie, the lowest fare is ineligible for DMUTA3 just like always.

The CUSTOMER, OTOH looks on the web page and sees a W fare class and say "Cool I can upgrade" Finds out he/she can't and feels cheated.

First off if you have one of the certificates you are by default an elite flyer. So it would cost very little and be a wonderful marketing tool to e-mail ALL elites of any significant changes in fare rules as well as any targeted promotions for the various levels. A way to create a win win.

Airways is actually better than most on this kind of thing. But look at the situation they create by not being proactive. On some European fares you can go from W clas to an upgradeable fare for as little as $50.00 if you look around a little. So in this case if the e-mail had been sent the person in question would have:
A) spent more money with US!
B) Not felt like he/she had been decieved
C) No reason to be upset if the person in Consumer Affairs could say "We sent you an e-mail on x/xx explaining the change"

This kind of stuff IMHO is why the legacy carriers are failing. Rules need to be simple enough for a 6th grader to read pure and simple. STOP with the silliness! You just hiss us off




[This message has been edited by PineyBob (edited Jan 26, 2004).]

This kind of stuff IMHO is why the legacy carriers are failing. Rules need to be simple enough for a 6th grader to read pure and simple.

Give me a little credit.. I'm at least at the 7th grade reading level. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Yes, I got a good price on the ticket. But I just spent nearly $2500 the other week for a trip LGW-GCM in discounted coach. Yes, I paid $100 extra for an upgradeable fare, but that is only because the web site couldn't process my requests (LGW-CLT-GCM) and so I booked the ticket by phone.

The bottom line is that even my receipt says I can upgrade the fare, but I can't. When I spoke to "Marsha" (or "Marcia" or whatever) in the Winston-Salem office, who would not tell me her last name or give me her employee number, by the way, I was blown off. She said she would forward me to her supervisor and I would get a call back in an hour. 12+ hours later, not a thing. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I will likely suck it up and pay what amounts to $300 more total to get an upgradeable fare. After all, there seems to be plenty of room.

With the exception of the rare few, I appreciate that my point has received some empathy.

Yes, I am getting a good deal-- but I could have flown LHR-ORD direct on BA or UA. Instead, I am choosing to fly US, to spend more time flying, to have a layover in CLT, just to have a shot at flying Envoy. There is my loyalty.

I love getting warm "Thank Yous" from corporate America.
--Alex

Alex is a regular poster and contributor here so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

US has not done a good job of publicizing the implications of these changes. Communication has not been one of their strong points. Having said this, I would immediately cancel the flights within the 24 hour period and do this on the phone with a res agent. Tell them why you are doing the 24 hour cancellation and ask them to get you into an upgradeable fare class.

Faced with a refund and a new reservation, the agent might take sympathy and get a supervisor to help with the upgrade on your current tickets.

BUT DON'T YELL OR GET AN ATTITUDE with the res agent. The big domes in CCY make the rules, res agents don't. Get combatitve with a res agent and they can make comments in your PNR and you will get no help from anyone. Res agents can only help you and (maybe even)get you a waivers!

Edited to add that if the fare rules on your ticket do indeed say that it is upgradeable, call the dividend miles service center and see if they can either upgrade you or put a note in your record that the fare is upgradeable.

[This message has been edited by NeoOfTheCRS (edited Jan 26, 2004).]

ayb1,

my post was not a jab at you personally or your reading comprehension skills.

This arcane "Yield management" idea is my "Soapbox" issue! They make everything a mystery then wring their hands and ask "Why do our customers hate us?"

If they made the rules clear and concise they could write them in such a way as to drive customers towards higher priced tickets. They could enable a check box for elites to request fares that are upgradeble to Envoy only on the web site. Do that and they drive people to pay higher ticket prices and use the lowest cost method of purchase which is what "Yield Management" is or did I miss something.

Last week I booked a PHL-LGW trip and it turned out to be a W fare. Called the accounting group within the 24 hour window and they rebooked me in an upgradeable V fare with no change fee. Fare difference $11. It ain't easy.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by vector:
Last week I booked a PHL-LGW trip and it turned out to be a W fare. Called the accounting group within the 24 hour window and they rebooked me in an upgradeable V fare with no change fee. Fare difference $11. It ain't easy.</font>

You are lucky. I'm not sure if I will be. The wife and I have been phoning trying to get it ironed out. We got hold of someone from the UK customer service office and they are looking into it.

According to what they told me yesterday, the fare code change price is $150ish per person, or $300. I have concluded that the chance I might fly Envoy is worth it. And I would likely have just paid that price in advance had I known. But I didn't, and I can't find anything that tells me I should have-- except the USAir customer service reps.

I guess I am frustrated most by the fact that my wife tells me I should fly other airlines (we shopped on BA for both our LGW-ORD and LGW-GCM trips and could have saved hundreds, perhaps even a total of $1000). But we (I mean, I) chose to fly US because I am trying to be loyal, and I want to take advantage of the benefits of being US2.

The whole reason I decided to start flying US when I moved to London last summer was because I felt like they had the best frequent flyer program for our situation.. Living in London affords me the opportunity to pick from plenty of airlines. USAir from LGW is by far the least convenient for me (as I can see Heathrow from my porch).

Appreciate the understanding. Hope we can all get past this, because I want to be able to keep upgrading.. and hate feeling like I am getting the short end of the stick.

Thanks.
--Alex

Alex,
That 25% European bonus does come in handy, doesn't it!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gnarly:
That 25% European bonus does come in handy, doesn't it!</font>

At this point, the only thing that doesn't come in handy is USAirways.

We spoke with a UK-based rep, who told us the fee to get an upgradeable fare would have been GBP 340 per person ($500+ per person, whereas we were told the other day it was $144 per person). The fare that was advertised at $367 rate was now going to approach $1000+ per person.

For the few of you that think I am ungrateful, please recognize that all of my flying comes right out of my personal budget. No business pays for me. I just decided to be loyal to USAir because I saw that I could be rewarded.

The UK-based rep told us that although he had the power to change our fare class, he felt that it was our responsibility to check. He faxed me a table of how many miles to upgrade each particular fare.

What none of these fools recognize is that their web site is arcane and confusing, does not clarify this, and didn't even state what the fare class is. No one will acknowledge this simple fact and it is quite frustrating. Their only response is that it is a "W" class.. which puts them in my "Master Of The Obvious" category. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

To make a long story short, we cancelled our trip because of the not-so-wonderful service we got from US Airways. Now we have what would have been $2000+ in our pocket (for a fare that was advertised as $367 per person), we helped kick the Nasdaq down a little (don't worry-- it's inflated anyways http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif), and US is one step closer to bankruptcy.

Although I would love to write a letter, I feel that it would fall on deaf ears. Wife and I are discussing it.

Thanks for your support.
--Alex

Just think of all the goodwill US could generate if they followed AA's model & made ALL transatlantic fares upgradeable.

Alex - not trying to sound like a nag - but you never responded with the 'fare rules' (as I asked way above) that said it was upgradable.

I think it would help to see what they are saying in W fares that leads to the confusion.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hscottm:
I think it would help to see what they are saying in W fares that leads to the confusion.</font>

The web site didn't say it was a "W" class fare before or after I booked it. I didn't save the fare rules, but they made no mention of fare class. It just said it was upgradeable.
--Alex

Alex (and others reading this in the future) -

Since we dont have fare rules in this case to check, but my suspicion is that the fare rule mentioned upgrading to a higher booking class (i.e. W to B/Y). Just making sure everyone realizes this has nothing to do with 'upgrading from coach to first'.

Another note to everyone - ALWAYS look for the fare code basis before purchasing. Its one click - and can usually have your browser 'open it in another window' to avoid problems like this. I too have been burned - it sucks.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hscottm:
Alex (and others reading this in the future) -

Since we dont have fare rules in this case to check, but my suspicion is that the fare rule mentioned upgrading to a higher booking class (i.e. W to B/Y). Just making sure everyone realizes this has nothing to do with 'upgrading from coach to first'.

Another note to everyone - ALWAYS look for the fare code basis before purchasing. Its one click - and can usually have your browser 'open it in another window' to avoid problems like this. I too have been burned - it sucks.</font>

I agree with looking a fare codes before purchasing. I still get nervous when I purchase a V fare for International travel. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hscottm:
Since we dont have fare rules in this case to check, but my suspicion is that the fare rule mentioned upgrading to a higher booking class (i.e. W to B/Y). Just making sure everyone realizes this has nothing to do with 'upgrading from coach to first'.</font>

Please stop making comments as if I have never done this before. You weren't there, and you weren't looking over my shoulder as I scanned every line of the rules. Perhaps I should have printed them off, and that is my lesson learned. Unfortunately, I can't learn a whole lot from "suspicions".

I have read dozens of you complain about how terrible the web site is, and I now officially agree.

The fact that an airline could thumb their nose at my persistent business and treat me like dirt when I personally have spent thousands of dollars on their tickets (and they happen to be on the verge of bankruptcy) is the big insult to me.

Although I have one trip booked for March already, I will likely stop flying USAir because of this.
--Alex

I am suprised you didn't choose UA or AA if you live within spitting distance of LHR.

UA offers decent E+ for elites so it's not a complete disaster to fly econ as it is on US. At Gold level on UA you get emergency seats. US reserves any decent seats for infants/disabled on the 767 -- I have no experience with the 330. Luckily I have been upgraded on every US transatlantic flight -- six in the past two years, which is exactly my SWU quota for the time period.

In addition UA offers better non-stop choices from LON. The upgradeable fares (H) on UA were down ~$500 incl tax last fall IAD-LHR. In addition, you will no longer get SWUs as a US2 starting this year. So I think your choice to leave US would make sense, notwithstanding this incident. For starters you could credit any upcoming travel on US to UA and maybe get a status comp.

If you go all the way to flying 100k miles then you get 6-8 SWUs with AA or UA. I got 1K on UA last year by flying 75k miles due to their promotion.

I agree. But it is near impossible to upgrade on UA on international flights if you are not 100k or buy anything H or more.

If I flew amost exclusively US-EU I would fly USAirways 100% of the time. At least you can use miles on most cheap fares.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gnaget:
I am suprised you didn't choose UA or AA if you live within spitting distance of LHR.

UA offers decent E+ for elites so it's not a complete disaster to fly econ as it is on US. At Gold level on UA you get emergency seats. US reserves any decent seats for infants/disabled on the 767 -- I have no experience with the 330. Luckily I have been upgraded on every US transatlantic flight -- six in the past two years, which is exactly my SWU quota for the time period.

In addition UA offers better non-stop choices from LON. The upgradeable fares (H) on UA were down ~$500 incl tax last fall IAD-LHR. In addition, you will no longer get SWUs as a US2 starting this year. So I think your choice to leave US would make sense, notwithstanding this incident. For starters you could credit any upcoming travel on US to UA and maybe get a status comp.

If you go all the way to flying 100k miles then you get 6-8 SWUs with AA or UA. I got 1K on UA last year by flying 75k miles due to their promotion.</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ayb1:
Please stop making comments as if I have never done this before. You weren't there, and you weren't looking over my shoulder as I scanned every line of the rules. Perhaps I should have printed them off, and that is my lesson learned. Unfortunately, I can't learn a whole lot from "suspicions".

</font>

Alex-

Sorry you've decided to take your frustration out on those of us who were trying to help you, and trying to prevent others from having the same problems in the future.

Looks like you wont be having these problems anymore, so I can be happy about that.

Since I assume Alex has stopped reading this forum since he wont be flying with us anymore, this note is for the rest of us: The best course of action for determining upgradeability is to look at the first letter of the fare code and match it with the website's list of upgradable fare classes. Theres no reason to read all of the fare rules for this information.
Whats worse, the typical text you would see in a transatlantic W fare rule is:

NOTE: PASSENGER MUST BE NOTIFIED PRIOR TO TICKET ISSUANCE THAT DIV MILES UPGRADES DO NOT APPLY AND FARES ARE NON-ENDORSEABLE/NON-TRANSFERABLE/NON- REFUNDABLE/VALID US ONLY.

The problem with this is that Transatlantic upgrade coupons (aka what used to be systemwides) are also inelgible for upgrade purposes. I think the only possibility for upgrade are the space positive one day out upgrade coupons that float around out there.

Last obvious comment - the website doesnt make any special warning to tell you they arent upgradable. They expect you to read the fare rules and see it in there yourself.

[This message has been edited by hscottm (edited Feb 01, 2004).]