A Warning Regarding Targeted Promotions [Archive]

flyertalk

Oct 15, 02, 12:25 pm

We just received a call here at the House of Miles from Dividend Miles management asking us to relay a message to FlyerTalk members.

The management at Dividend Miles is concerned about the sharing of targeted promotion codes and will "begin immediately enforcing the guidelines of the Dividend Miles program." In other words, Dividend Miles will be "deducting, freezing and possibly even terminating accounts" of all members who have earned miles through a targeted promotion that the member him/herself was not targeted to receive.

If you've violated program guidelines through the sharing and/or improper use of targeted promotional codes, we suggest you call Dividend Miles customer service immediately. According to Dividend Miles management, violators who call and admit their violation will have the improperly earned miles deducted from their accounts, but will not have their accounts frozen and/or their membership terminated. Dividend Miles will begin taking action on accounts in question today (10/15), so if you think your account might be one of those audited, call ASAP.

Again, we felt it important to pass this information along to our members immediately so that you could take the appropriate action. And please, before posting any information that could be deemed fraudulent, have another look at the FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines, which state: "Posts that condone illegal activity (i.e., buying and selling of awards, direct fraud upon any program) will be removed without notice and accounts subject to deletion!"

FlyerTalk Administration

noah

Oct 15, 02, 12:32 pm

Ummm... is this for real?

I can't believe that this is the method that DM is using to tell us all that they are going to crack down on improperly earned awards. Turn yourself in now or pay the price? What kind of an offer is that? I think a "we're onto what you are doing and have modified our computers to make it impossible to do it further" would be a much less harsh way to make a point. This just makes me mad.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not rushing to the phone.

ITRADE

Oct 15, 02, 12:40 pm

????

[This message has been edited by ITRADE (edited 10-15-2002).]

Beckles

Oct 15, 02, 12:41 pm

Originally posted by flyertalk:
Again, we felt it important to pass this information along to our members immediately so that you could take the appropriate action. And please, before posting any information that could be deemed fraudulent, have another look at the FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines, which state: "Posts that condone illegal activity (i.e., buying and selling of awards, direct fraud upon any program) will be removed without notice and accounts subject to deletion!"

FlyerTalk Administration


Does the "Flyertalk Administration" think the sharing of targeted promos is fraud? Certainly the US Airways board is not the only one where such activity takes place ...

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 12:46 pm

If this is for real, would FT mind posting the name of the DM mgmt. person who made the call, so that I may seek his or her termination from US Airways?

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

lt1GM

Oct 15, 02, 12:51 pm

They have got to be kidding.

Beckles

Oct 15, 02, 1:02 pm

All I've got to say about the message in general, is it's about time US ... I was wondering when they'd crack-down on this and honestly can't believe it's taken this long ...

However, this:

Originally posted by flyertalk:
In other words, Dividend Miles will be "deducting, freezing and possibly even terminating accounts" of all members who have earned miles through a targeted promotion that the member him/herself was not targeted to receive.

Is a bit much ... I have no problem with deductions (though I'm sure I'm probably actually in the Flyertalk minority there) ... but freezing and terminating accounts of some of their most loyal customers seems like it might not be such a good idea ...

tcollins33

Oct 15, 02, 1:10 pm

As if...

They should use the "crack down" technology to make sure people get the correct credit in the first place!

Bullies!

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 1:12 pm

I'm guessing that the reason for this crackdown is that US wants to minimize the number of DM miles available for redemption on United's flights to Hawaii...

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

djk7

Oct 15, 02, 1:17 pm

Originally posted by flyertalk:
The management at Dividend Miles is concerned about the sharing of targeted promotion codes

It seems to me that if US is so concerned about this, they should have taken the responsibility to track what promos each member was eligible for and only accept those codes and award those points. Since some promos are targeted, some are not, some people may have been targeted but not realized it, the bonus code thread serves a legitimate use. People should be able to attempt to register for any code, the airline with their IT staff and programmers should be able to configure their systems to accept or reject those attempts based on individual eligibility.

That said, once they realized their mistake, they should do what we all have to do when we make one, accept the consequences, make changes to assure it doesn't happen in the future and move on. If they feel that they need to back out some points, so be it, but don't blame us for the mistake. They should realize that wild threats to freeze accounts won't benefit them in any way.

FlyerAl

Oct 15, 02, 1:20 pm

They're bluffing. I wouldn't call the Dividend Miles service centre. Time to burn more miles before this stupid airline liquidates. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

gardener

Oct 15, 02, 1:28 pm

Oh Shiitake mushrooms!

jcrb

Oct 15, 02, 1:35 pm

I wonder if they are really dumb enough to do this? If they pulled the miles and or status and you had any choice why on earth would you fly US again? I mean if I had to start over without status I know my wife (who I have recently talking into pushing her biz travel to US, despite her having to fight with her corp travel over it) would rather fly UA or AA on direct flights most of the places we go, but is willing to put up with US for the bonuses.

If US had half a brain they would say "stop it with the bonuses *before* we have to crack down". I've already booked almost $2,000 in personal family travel in the next month or so, and was planing on some more. Now of course I'll have to wait and see if I should be giving it to AA. Dito for me and my better half's biz travel. Not to mention all the people who I basicly *push* to fly US.

So if DM management gives the House of Miles another call would you be so kind as to relay my response.

"If we lose any of our miles/status, US loses ALL of our $20,000-$50,0000 worth of travel each year."

landspeed

Oct 15, 02, 1:35 pm

Originally posted by djk7:
It seems to me that if US is so concerned about this, they should have taken the responsibility to track what promos each member was eligible for and only accept those codes and award those points.

Agree- if you're going to run targeted promotions, I would argue that it's the company's responsibility to automatically enroll people or only accept codes from people who were targeted.

Note to US- the horses are out of the barn.

(I admit that I'm not familiar w/ the terms and conditions of US, so sorry if there are t+cs regarding being sworn to secrecy about promotion codes)

gnaget

Oct 15, 02, 1:43 pm

I think that they have no clue about who was targeted for what, and that's why they are doing it this way.

It's like being in grade school when the teachers don't know who did it: turn yourself in now and punishment will be less severe!

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 1:45 pm

Oh yeah, this thread is going over 200 posts, easy...

In the event that this is for real, and members' accounts get wiped out, I'd like to invite all USers to come on over to CO, and share in the delicious pizza. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 1:48 pm

IMHO, it's very easy for US to track down the "offending" accounts. US simply has to do a search on accounts with a certain number of promo codes (e.g., 10), and go from there.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

jcrb

Oct 15, 02, 1:50 pm

Originally posted by Beckles:
Does the "Flyertalk Administration" think the sharing of targeted promos is fraud

There is no fraud involved,

1) US makes a targeted offer to someone

2) you become aware of it and you make a counter offer to US that you would like to accept their offer as well.

3) you register, they do not tell you they do not accept your registration.

4) you buy tickets and fly they give you bonus miles indicating that they have accepted your counter offer.

This is pure counter offer and acceptence contract law.... Since it is known that people within US mgt were aware of the bonus code thread and have said NOTHING publicly to indicate they objected to it's use there is no arguement that US was not aware to what they were allowing.

Up to this point there is nothing wrong,

5) you continue to give US lots of extra money only because they have allowed you to accept their bonus offer. US takes your money and then takes back all the milles.

Now there might be an arguement that a fraud had occured, but it would be on US's part.

gnaget

Oct 15, 02, 2:04 pm

Originally posted by avek00:
IMHO, it's very easy for US to track down the "offending" accounts. US simply has to do a search on accounts with a certain number of promo codes (e.g., 10), and go from there.



There's about 20 promotions on the US website. Also if I sit and enter URLs with 4 digit numbers then I could find many of these "hidden" promotions.

pitsheel

Oct 15, 02, 2:09 pm

out of curiosity, is anyone calling DM?

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 2:10 pm

Originally posted by gnaget:
There's about 20 promotions on the US website. Also if I sit and enter URLs with 4 digit numbers then I could find many of these "hidden" promotions.



Yes, but few people would take the time to do that.

In any event, I'm not overly concerned. If US takes my miles away, I will use a SOLVENT carrier as a backup for CO/NW.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 2:11 pm

Originally posted by pitsheel:
out of curiosity, is anyone calling DM? 

The only time I plan to call DM is when I book a trip on United, PROVIDED that the alliance actually progresses to that phase (and I have my doubts).

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

IndyDavid

Oct 15, 02, 2:18 pm

I don't plan to call. But I don't plan to sign up for any more bonus codes for a while either.

David

ClueByFour

Oct 15, 02, 2:18 pm

I'm not going to rehash what has already been said, particularly the implicit contract law stuffs and why it would not be a particuarly good idea to go after your most loyal customers.

That said, I think somebody over at US probably has a bit of a problem on their hand. That somebody would be the process manager for things like this, since US has not (in the past) been really keen about verification and validation of who is targetted for what. That's their fault, not the DM member.

As has been pointed out, anybody with a little bit of time can find all these things on their website. And the contract law analogy applies from there.

As for the loyal customer: this airline needs revenue a whole lot worse than FT members who can spend thousands of $$ with another "airline of their choice" need to Get Out More.

Edited to add:
As soon as they define "improper use of promo codes" in the T&Cs, they might have a leg to stand on.

That, and the more I think about this, here is what I think happened: somebody at US finally realized that flyertalk exists and/or "found" the bonus code thread.

Since Randy does have a good working relationship with the airlines, you might expect that he'd post something like this. If US really saw widespread "fraud," they would have sent an email directly to their membership list, as opposed to communicating the "threat" thru the House of Miles.

Personally, if I lose one solitary mile, I pull all further bookings from US, and make the standing order in my group against booking US (due to standby changes) a permanent one. Is one cockroach worth $50-$70k/year?
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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

[This message has been edited by ClueByFour (edited 10-15-2002).]

rtpflyer

Oct 15, 02, 2:29 pm

I certainly think Dividend Miles has every right to remove incorrectly awarded miles from a person's account, but to claim that a member was engaged in fraudulent activity just because he/she signed up for a "targeted" offer that was posted on FlyerTalk is beyond the pale. I've always simply assumed that such offers to me were "lost in the mail" or thrown out with the other junk mail, and that if I signed up for them based on FlyerTalk postings and the miles were credited to my account, then I must have been in the targeted group.

Skylink USA

Oct 15, 02, 2:33 pm

Most bonus require that the passenger do something, e.g. fly a certain route, use e-check in, give personal information to another company, save the airline postage by declining mailed statements, etc.

US needs to think of more efficient ways of using their time instead of punishing passengers.

syzygy8

Oct 15, 02, 3:11 pm

syzygy8

Oct 15, 02, 3:13 pm

Originally posted by avek00:
Oh yeah, this thread is going over 200 posts, easy...



I think you are absolutely right, too. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 3:17 pm

They're eliminating the cockroaches once and for all...

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

Dub

Oct 15, 02, 3:23 pm

Originally posted by avek00:
They're eliminating the cockroaches once and for all...


Calling in the exterminator before selling the house. Or at least before shacking up with United.

hilton-gold

Oct 15, 02, 3:30 pm

I say we carefully nominate one person to call the DMSC anonymously and ask if this is for real. We need a real diplomat for this job!

syzygy8

Oct 15, 02, 3:31 pm

What is House of Miles, anyway? Why am I thinking this is utter BS.

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 3:42 pm

The House of Miles is the name for Randy's headquarters in Colorado (IIRC). The message is legit; the only debate at this point is whether the threat has teeth.

------------------
Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

Beckles

Oct 15, 02, 3:47 pm

I just received a letter from Mike Isom (Director of Dividend Miles at US):

Mike Isom said:
We did ask FlyerTalk to advise customers that we were going to correct accounts that did improperly register for and earn bonus miles and tier miles for promotions for which they were not targeted for but we did not tell them that we would be freezing or terminating accounts. We will ask them to change the verbiage.

markbach

Oct 15, 02, 3:49 pm

Mike Isom said:
...but we did not tell them that we would be freezing or terminating accounts.

So then there is absolutely NO reason to call in and "confess" if you improperly registered for any bonus codes...

gardener

Oct 15, 02, 3:53 pm

Originally posted by rtpflyer:
I've always simply assumed that such offers to me were "lost in the mail" or thrown out with the other junk mail, and that if I signed up for them based on FlyerTalk postings and the miles were credited to my account, then I must have been in the targeted group.

So if (1) we are all too busy to read all the junk mail we receive in credit card offers, emails, etc. etc. and (2) USAirways doesn't have the means to tell who is targetted for what (otherwise their computers would screen out non-targeted pax) then how are they going to know which miles to remove? I mean if their systems are so lame that they can't prevent signups or awarding of miles to non-target pax, how can they justify removing miles?

Not to mention some of the offers came from Hilton, Amex, FirstUSA, etc. Does Hilton send them a list of every DM miles member who received the PHX double miles bonus offer? And even if they did, would their IT system be able to process it?

ClueByFour

Oct 15, 02, 4:05 pm

Originally posted by Beckles:

Mike Isom said:
We did ask FlyerTalk to advise customers that we were going to correct accounts that did improperly register for and earn bonus miles and tier miles for promotions for which they were not targeted for but we did not tell them that we would be freezing or terminating accounts. We will ask them to change the verbiage.

I have a huge issue with the "improper" verbiage.

Improperly implies that it won't work, or you are somehow warned that it won't work. See the post with the contract law analogy--it speaks for itself.

The right thing to do here is fix the IT systems such that one cannot register for bonuses one is not targeted for. Not waste valuable IT cycles trying to figure out how many people slipped thru the cracks of said broken system. By doing this, it's almost like throwing good money after bad--a practice which a bankrupt enterprise really ought to learn to stop partaking in.

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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

TomBascom

Oct 15, 02, 4:07 pm

Didn't CO have an issue like this a year or so ago? Anyone know how they resolved it?

And doesn't EDS do IT for both???

Beckles

Oct 15, 02, 4:08 pm

Originally posted by gardener:
So if (1) we are all too busy to read all the junk mail we receive in credit card offers, emails, etc. etc. and (2) USAirways doesn't have the means to tell who is targetted for what (otherwise their computers would screen out non-targeted pax) then how are they going to know which miles to remove? I mean if their systems are so lame that they can't prevent signups or awarding of miles to non-target pax, how can they justify removing miles?

Not to mention some of the offers came from Hilton, Amex, FirstUSA, etc. Does Hilton send them a list of every DM miles member who received the PHX double miles bonus offer? And even if they did, would their IT system be able to process it?



I think we have a pretty good idea what the primary culprit is here ... and it will be pretty easy to see a person was registered for and received miles for five promos which they know they only sent once to each member, at the most, and each of the five awards the same thing, so they just limit it to one set of earnings per account for that particular bonus ...

gardener

Oct 15, 02, 4:28 pm

Originally posted by Beckles:
I just received a letter from Mike Isom (Director of Dividend Miles at US):

Mike Isom said:
We did ask FlyerTalk to advise customers that we were going to correct accounts that did improperly register for and earn bonus miles and tier miles for promotions for which they were not targeted for but we did not tell them that we would be freezing or terminating accounts. We will ask them to change the verbiage.

I spent a few minutes trying to figure out how USAirways feels about "us". My thought was, if I were in their shoes, it would be a love-hate relationship.

I would love the FT'ers because they fly so much and have so much influence over others.

I would hate the FT'ers because they expect so much and have so much influence over others.

jcrb

Oct 15, 02, 5:07 pm

Originally posted by gardener:
I would hate the FT'ers because they expect so much and have so much influence over others.


They should love us for our influence over others, we make people fly their airline.

Now if they touch any of my miles, then they need to hate me for my influence over other people.

Note to Mike Isom, yes I am entitled to all of the bonus miles you have given me. You and your BK airline have received plenty of my money because of them, if not for the bonuses I would have been on AA. I also expect to see the bonuses appear on all the flights that I have already ticketed, I bought them because of the bonuses, I expect to get them.

Look you can be unreasonable about this and stiff you customers out of miles they earned on PAID flights, and we can stop paying. Giving me a lot of miles does not result in lost revenue, having me, my wife, my kids, my parents, my friends, and everyone I can talk into not flying your airline.... now *that* will cost you revenue. I mean it, if anything bad happens I will make it my personal hobby to talk as many people out of flying on US as I can.

Just a suggestion, if this is for real, (all he have so far are second hand comments) then make an official policy statement that effective, as of, oh say 1/1/03 you will enforce your bonus policy, and actualy *define* what it is. And we will keep giving you revenue.

PHL

Oct 15, 02, 5:12 pm

Who's the maroon at "Flyertalk Management" who went as far as incorreclty quoting Dividend Miles management. If Mike Isom has confirmed they didn't threaten "freezing" or "termination" of accounts, then why did the Flyertalk poster put such a serious statement in quotes if it isn't even accurate.

That being said, I'm not budging. If they pull miles that I wasn't targetted for, then so be it. Easy come, easy go. I don't think they would go so far as removing earned miles or tier/class of service bonuses. They were earned regardless of the promotion codes.

cockroach

Oct 15, 02, 5:22 pm

Screw them. Targeted promos are a perversion of the whole loyalty program function. By their very nature, these are discriminatory. Since the software can't stop it, and they have laid off so many people in the back office, they have little compliance control,they need to resort to threats in an attempt to prevent what's going on. If they would treat all customers equally, this stuff never even happens. Good luck.

PersonalCareChemist

Oct 15, 02, 5:37 pm

My guess is that Mike Isom is responding to those of us who wrote him complaining about the recent onslaught of fast track promos. He likely wants to put a lid on the folks who flew the "stated" miles or segments from finding out that you really only need to wait until near the end of the year and fly just a fraction on the "stated" miles or segments.

In my opinion, US Airways wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want one group to be loyal and follow the original rules and they want to give the same rewards to a second group who are far less loyal. I wonder if my wife will let me cheat on her the last three months of every year even though the rules at the beginning of the relationship were that we had to be faithful all year long? I wonder if Mike's wife would be ok with such an arrangement?

MaineFlyer16

Oct 15, 02, 5:38 pm

I'm thinking I should take out all of my miles in awards...and the redeposit them when this all blows over....anyone up for a FC trip to Europe or two?

bfunkjeep

Oct 15, 02, 5:46 pm

I don't think they have the man-power to go into everyone's accounts.

I agree with the whole post about signing up for a bonus code as being an offer... and US Airways accepted by performance! They should talk to their legal department before taking any action as they might have a lawsuit to play with if they do this...

They should simply fix the problem with their codes by enforcing registration to whose on the list. If they don't want a bunch of unhappy people, they should just admit they don't know how to run a business, fix the simple glitch, and move on with life.

It's like trying to punish a little kid who had too much fun getting candy on halloween... You don't throw their candy away --- you just don't let them go out so late next year!

[This message has been edited by bfunkjeep (edited 10-15-2002).]

LLM

Oct 15, 02, 5:47 pm

Suppose they decide you deserve to have miles deducted but you have already redeemed them for awards? Margin call? No credit for future flights until you make up the shortfall? This is really silly.

flymetothemoon

Oct 15, 02, 6:08 pm

Let's see, I guess US Airways feels it didn't upset enough loyal customers with its recently rescinded "no preferred miles for discount fares" policy. Now it's trying to alienate many of its best customers by revoking bonus offerings after persuading them to get out more and fly on particular routes.

I agree with others here that, instead of going after customers, US should clean up its obviously messy IT operations. Fixing its IT procedures will make a bigger difference in improving profitability than jilting customers. And if it does go after customers, there's little reason to believe that US will be able to accurately identify "unearned" bonuses. Inevitably, there will be lots of confused and angry people who will feel cheated by US because they responded to targeted promos only to find they have been de-qualified. This all sounds like the makings of a marketing and PR debacle.

US should consider the recent wave of preferred miles promotions as a gracious and generous way to reward and welcome new elite customers into the excellent DM program. US should turn this into an opportunity to have the elites fly and pay more to keep their status. By blaming customers, US would only provide more evidence that it lacks the managerial skills to return to solvency.

infiniteflyer

Oct 15, 02, 6:10 pm

Originally posted by jcrb:
Note to Mike Isom, yes I am entitled to all of the bonus miles you have given me. You and your BK airline have received plenty of my money because of them, if not for the bonuses I would have been on AA. I also expect to see the bonuses appear on all the flights that I have already ticketed, I bought them because of the bonuses, I expect to get them. 

I think many people would have chosen a different (non-bankrupt, non-stop) carrier if they thought they weren't getting bonus miles. Don't they understand that they need incentives right now for people to fly them? I will be waiting to see what happens to our accounts, or until an official statement comes out, before I will buy another ticket on US. Unfortunate for them, since I am a very frequent full fare business flyer, with a lot of personal discounted coach travel too. But, if I can't be sure if I will be earning (and keeping) all of my miles or if my account will be terminated, it's not worth the trouble. If this isn't a hoax, why do they keep doing things that make us want to fly other carriers? During a bankruptcy?! They should have fired someone after the last marketing fiasco.

[This message has been edited by infiniteflyer (edited 10-15-2002).]

mileshound

Oct 15, 02, 6:27 pm

It will be a long sleepless night wondering if a special program will run tonight to adjust accounts.

In reading thru some old threads, they did try to flag accounts 1 1/2 years ago that were targeted. You needed to be "preregistered" for the promo before they signed you up. That quickly died.

flyertalk

Oct 15, 02, 6:43 pm

Dividend Miles management has asked us to post the following update, which provides clarity regarding Dividend Miles policy on this matter.

*********************************************
Dear Flyertalk.com visitors,

We would like to advise all members of our growing concern over the distribution of US Airways targeted promotional offers.

Targeted promotions that are sent to Dividend Miles members or our partners via e-mail or direct mail, which generally require registration, cannot be earned by anyone except the original recipient of the e-mail or direct mail program. The terms and conditions of these promotions state that only the original recipient of the direct mail or e-mail program can qualify for the promotional offer. We always clearly state promotional terms and conditions associated with each Dividend Miles promotional offer.

Unfortunately, we find that some members have continued to post these promotions that were not intended for public use on flyertalk.com and other information sources. In addition, some members have registered for multiple promotions for which they were not targeted to earn extra miles or benefits. Such practices are in violation of the terms and conditions of those promotions which state that the offers are not combinable with other offers.

We will be deducting the improperly earned miles or downgrading the tier status of any members that register for promotions that they were not on the original lists for which they were targeted by US Airways.

We recognize the open nature of flyertalk.com and other chat sites. In general, they help build enthusiasm for and interest in loyalty programs. Many of us are avid readers, but do not condone the practice of misusing or violating terms and conditions of any company's promotional offer. We appreciate your cooperation in discouraging visitors to your site from posting targeted promotions offered by US Airways.

We thank flyertalk.com for encouraging participation in the Dividend Miles Program.

The Dividend Miles Team at US Airways
*********************************************

ATC

Oct 15, 02, 7:14 pm

Well, maybe that can be the final word?

(I am personally shocked by these allegations, but, if true, am sure that the perpetrators feel remorse. They can demonstrate this by just simply shutting up.)

ClueByFour

Oct 15, 02, 7:22 pm

(edited) I'm to busy talking to the PLT desk at AA right now.

[This message has been edited by ClueByFour (edited 10-15-2002).]

FOH

Oct 15, 02, 7:24 pm

Unless their systems are seriously antiquated, it wouldn't be all that hard (or take that much time) to figure out who registered for a targeted promotion and wasn't targeted. But I also wonder if this threat is serious going backward.

But US should really do some input-checking on their systems.

KahunaJax2anywhere

Oct 15, 02, 7:25 pm

Doesn't it strike you funny that no name or title is listed as to from which person this "email" was generated?

How can anything be considered enforced if the generator of the email is afraid to post his/her name and title?

jcrb

Oct 15, 02, 7:26 pm

Originally posted by flyertalk:
Targeted promotions that are sent to Dividend Miles members or our partners via e-mail or direct mail, which generally require registration, cannot be earned by anyone except the original recipient of the e-mail or direct mail program. The terms and conditions of these promotions state that only the original recipient of the direct mail or e-mail program can qualify for the promotional offer. We always clearly state promotional terms and conditions associated with each Dividend Miles promotional offer.



No, they say "valid for addressee", they do not say anything about e-mail's they do not say anything about "original recipient". We offered to register, we paid you money, you took it, we flew you gave us miles. Offer, acceptance, consideration, perfomance.


In addition, some members have registered for multiple promotions for which they were not targeted to earn extra miles or benefits. Such practices are in violation of the terms and conditions of those promotions which state that the offers are not combinable with other offers.


We offered to register for multiple bonuses, you accepted our registrations, you accepted our money, you gave us the miles for multiple bonuses. Thus you accepted by performance of an agreement with different terms.

Also many of the bonuses listed in the promotions section of usairways.com would sometimes conflict with each other, and sometimes not. Its obvious that this restriction isn't a restriction as the way US formulates its bonuses would actually allow to be enforced..... and oddly enough, it has never been, and we all know that.


We will be deducting the improperly earned miles or downgrading the tier status of any members that register for promotions that they were not on the original lists for which they were targeted by US Airways.


I think maybe it is time to leave US, any company in BK that thinks that driving away paying customers is a productive use of their IT energies that could be spent on
a) making usairways.com have 1/2 the features of other airlines sites
b) integration with UA/MP
c) paperless upgrades so the checkin doesnt spend 10 minutes filling out little carbons to attach to my ticket..s

but I will see you in court first, if only to make me feel beter for being so foolish as to have been loyal to this company when it needed paying customers the most.


We recognize the open nature of flyertalk.com and other chat sites. In general, they help build enthusiasm for and interest in loyalty programs.

You mean they *used* to help build enthusiasm and interest in the program.....

[This message has been edited by jcrb (edited 10-15-2002).]

avek00

Oct 15, 02, 7:33 pm

Dear US Airways:

It is with great shock and dismay that I am reading the warning communicated through FlyerTalk.

I fully understand that US Airways may have intended for certain promotions to be targetted to certain DM members. However, US could have reasonably ensured that DM members who were ineligible for a particular promotion were not registered, or else have prevented the awarding of the applicable bonus. Dividend Miles elected not to take either of those steps, and instead has decided to retroactively punish its membership for egregious neglect committed by US Airways personnel. It is my reasonable contention that it is in the best interests of US Airways to recognize the increased revenue that has been (and continues to be) realized from FlyerTalkers embarking upon additional trips as a direct result of the promotional offerings and allow the accounts to remain undisturbed.

As a group, FlyerTalkers have been some of the most loyal and highest revenue-generating customers for US Airways. We have continued to patronize US Airways despite numerous service cutbacks and a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing.

As US continues its efforts to restructure, I implore the company to not hinder its progress by alienating a valuable membership base. Dividend Miles can certainly enact the modifications necessary to prevent unintended registration in the future. I sincerely hope that the company will take the most enlightened approach on this matter.

Sincerely,
Avek00

Gregg

Oct 15, 02, 7:33 pm

Did anyone notice how this all went down after the point you could still get decent fares 14 days out to make the Oct 31st deadline for the Get Out More and the 4/8/12 bonuses?

I wouldn't be surprised if US Air knew this was going on long ago and decided not to enforce it until after many of you spent plenty of your money earning miles using these bonuses.

Couldn't this crackdown have happened in July? August? September?

I smell a rat and he's coming to eat the cockroaches.

jcrb

Oct 15, 02, 7:39 pm

Originally posted by Gregg:

I wouldn't be surprised if US Air knew this was going on long ago and decided not to enforce it until after many of you spent plenty of your money earning miles using these bonuses.

Couldn't this crackdown have happened in July? August? September?


Yes they knew and yes they could have, but then they would not have gotten all that revenue that was generated by people getting out more. And is why they will find themselves in court if they take the action that has still not been announced directly in any offical manner, by any person with authority to make such a policy decision, second hand reposting of message bodies are rumor, and nothing more.

markbach

Oct 15, 02, 7:44 pm

Here's a chant we can use...
(loosely borrowed from tonight's Simpsons rerun (where Homer is the union president))

So we'll post day and night
to the bonus code thread.
They have the miles,
But we can make them bleed red!

[This message has been edited by markbach (edited 10-15-2002).]

TimCLE

Oct 15, 02, 7:50 pm

Someone please get a strongly worded letter we all can MAIL in. Copy the bankruptcy judge, also.

syzygy8

Oct 15, 02, 8:05 pm

Originally posted by TimCLE:
Someone please get a strongly worded letter we all can MAIL in. Copy the bankruptcy judge, also. 

i think avek00 is just about there.
B

PersonalCareChemist

Oct 15, 02, 8:35 pm

Just think, five years from now, young MBA's following in the footsteps of Isom and my pal Ben will be discussing a case study on all the ways one can poke their marketing fingers in the eyes of the customers to drive an airline out of business. You almost wonder if the dynamic duo hasn't shorted the stock. Jeeez, the only thing missing from the US Airways marketing plan is the pre-board enima.

BizJet

Oct 15, 02, 8:38 pm

changed my mind...i'm going to stay quiet for now.

[This message has been edited by BizJet (edited 10-15-2002).]

RichS

Oct 15, 02, 9:08 pm

Last year I inquired about a double-miles code that a co-worker had passed on to me. The person I dealt with told me that I was not targeted for the offer, but she would go ahead and register me for it, retroactively.

Lawyers know better than I, but I think that must be some type of precedent that would have an impact on efforts to retract miles that have already been awarded.

Legal eagles?

jcrb

Oct 15, 02, 9:15 pm

Originally posted by syzygy8:
i think avek00 is just about there.
B

No it needs to make some comments about the reckless and negligent behavior on the part of US in the management of their program (if they claim our behavior was bad for US, then it should have been stopped a long time ago, and they damanged US by not taking action sooner). It should also comment on the damage we will suffer due to our reliance on US's continued performance which they knowingly allowed to take place to US's benefit. In the last message they (whoever they are) admit that some of us are avid readers so they know, about the bonus code thread, and they know that many people were booking flights solely because of the bonuses available, and while they do not condone the practice they apparently did not "not condone it" enough to suggest that we stop giving them our money.

I suspect that a good case can be made that striping any miles received, or failing to grant them in the future for bonuses already signed up for could be shown to be a deliberate fraud on the part of US.

nawlinsdoc

Oct 15, 02, 9:45 pm

Originally posted by Gregg:
[B]Did anyone notice how this all went down after the point you could still get decent fares 14 days out to make the Oct 31st deadline for the Get Out More and the 4/8/12 bonuses?
I wouldn't be surprised if US Air knew this was going on long ago and decided not to enforce it until after many of you spent plenty of your money earning miles using these bonuses.
Couldn't this crackdown have happened in July? August? September?
B]

US has known about this thread for months. I think Greg is dead on...they waited until all good 14-day advance purchase fares were gone prior to Oct 31st. There's no way this is a coincidence.

hscottm

Oct 15, 02, 10:04 pm

I hope they hurry up and make the negative adjustments soon - that way, I can re-register all the codes again. They surely wont have time to go in twice and gut our accounts! ;-)

hindukid

Oct 15, 02, 10:22 pm

Gregg

Oct 15, 02, 10:26 pm

Originally posted by hscottm:
I hope they hurry up and make the negative adjustments soon - that way, I can re-register all the codes again. They surely wont have time to go in twice and gut our accounts! ;-)

You think they won't have time to go in and gut accounts twice? :-) Surely you jest? The same people who are ready to spend all the time they need to gut accounts are also the same geniuses who came up with the idea of status miles and segments only on refundable tickets and then had to rescind it. They've proven they have plenty of time on their hands and are already dreaming up the next insecticide they'll use on cockroaches.

LLM

Oct 15, 02, 10:28 pm

Very good point. The voicemail system specifically invites you to "sign up for other promotional offers".

FlyerAl

Oct 15, 02, 10:34 pm

You'd think that instead of spending time and money on auditing everyone's DM accounts, they'd invest in providing hot towels in domestic first class!

jcrb

Oct 15, 02, 10:55 pm

Originally posted by hindukid:
Therefore the only terms applicable would be the ones diplayed over their phone regisration system. Did they mention that it was for targetted cutomers onlyon the phone, I think not

Someone give this 1L a prize, of course the phone system has no terms other than those that are created by US's performance.

HPTunco

Oct 15, 02, 11:48 pm

It is incumbent upon the supplier to manage his product and promotions.

USAirways allowed us (targeted and non-targeted) to register and receive these promotional bonuses. They did have the right to reject our registration, but choose to accept it. We paid for their product, based upon the acceptance of our promotional registration.

As all of us know, a major component of our choice to fly USAirways were the bonus miles. It is obvious that they waited until the end of the promotional period to pull the rug out from under this so that they could maximize their revenue from "non-targeted flyers".

You don't have to be a Legal Beagle to understand the potential for fraud here. Yes, they can take away my DMiles, but I want monetary compensation for the fares that I paid for these flights. Bait and Switch is an age old practice.

PineyBob

Oct 16, 02, 5:23 am

Where I grew up we had an old saying regarding poor performance from a vendor -

"Don't B*tch! SWITCH!" Get it! Got it! GOOD!

I don't need the grief! But i do love a good fight! I have been faxing them copies of my reciepts from other airlines since the tier miles debacle and it seems to be suffiecently annoying enough that I have recieved a phone call from Consumer Affairs who let me vent for a good half hour! I like to remind them of the revenue they have lost to date as a result of their decisions! They are IMHO feeling the heat! It's just not hot enough! YET! We need to discuss turning up the heat! Forwarding a copy of ALL Correspondence to the BK judge seems like a plan, anyone know if it will help?

gardener

Oct 16, 02, 5:38 am

Ran Miletracker this AM, clicked on update, held my breath. Phewwww. No deductions yet for me or any of my family members.

mileshound

Oct 16, 02, 6:08 am

Originally posted by flyertalk:
Unfortunately, we find that some members have continued to post these promotions that were not intended for public use on flyertalk.com and other information sources.

We will be deducting the improperly earned miles or downgrading the tier status of any members that register for promotions that they were not on the original lists for which they were targeted by US Airways.



"Have continued to post"... it sounds like they think they warned us and we continued. We have now been warned.

The second paragraph is interesting. They will deduct miles or downgrade the status. It may be much more manageable to just downgrade people's status and not adjust the miles. There would be a lot less phone calls and issues in case they don't adjust them perfectly. There would be less ill will also.

They may also make an example of a few pure mileage runners. This way they don't hurt themselves as much for future revenue.

Considering what they just went thru, they should be sensitive of people leaving.

The main objective should be to put an end to this. Leave the past in the past and correct it for the fall promos.

hscottm

Oct 16, 02, 6:44 am

Obviously, we expect to hear from those affected by the first wave of adjustments as they happen. The interesting part will be trying to figure out their criteria or diagnostic mechanisms for making the adjustments. eg: will they be looking for 'new CPs'? 'people who have high tier miles/segments ratios'?

I earned CP-lite last year, and would have been close to it again this year without the bonuses. Will be interesting to see how much they choose to punish me. (note I should earn again under the CP challenge code ;-) - thats one they cant mess with I think).

HPTunco

Oct 16, 02, 7:19 am

I flew US (PIT-MDT-PHL-LAX and back) last month for about $500. I could have flown UA (PIT-ORD-LAX) for about $300.

I specifically choose the higher, and longer itinerary, US fare because of the bonus miles that were offered to me.

Go ahead and take the miles.....I want the fare difference refunded. This is just one example of how US benefited from "allowing" bonus registration.

jcrb

Oct 16, 02, 7:25 am

Originally posted by mileshound:
We have now been warned.



No we have not been warned, all we have are unauthenticated messages with no indication that they come from a person authorized to speak for US copied to us by third parties.

This would have been a fine way to have "dropped a hint" that people should back off on the bonuses. We could have all said "gee alright, if you say so....", but thats not what happened, someone tried to unofficialy wave around a stick that would have made Teddy Roosevelt feel right at home.


They may also make an example of a few pure mileage runners. This way they don't hurt themselves as much for future revenue.


Yes yes, lets "make an example" of people who flew on a BK airline on paid tickets for no purpose other than to fly on that airline.... and now we want to punish them and make them hate the airline.... you try explaining that one to the judge.


The main objective should be to put an end to this. Leave the past in the past and correct it for the fall promos.


No the objective should be to make the program whatever they want it to be AFTER existing bonuses expire. I have paid non-refundable tickets purchased on US because of the bonuses. Even giving me back my money would not prevent me from suffering harm at this point. My wife and I could have been out flying other airlines for status for months but have been flying US instead.

In fact I just got a letter from AA yesterday telling me where I was for requalification and asking me bascily to fly more. If I take out the one flight I had when US had suffered so many delays it had to send me on AA to get me home in time. As of JULY I had only 7 segments on AA for a total of 23,800 Q-miles, BUT 30,300 Q-points. Anyone who knows AA system can tell thats about $10,000 worth of international biz class. I even tried to give US half of that (would have given them all but they don't fly to NRT....), but I couldn't get the price even close. But apparently US doesn't want me to even try anymore.

[This message has been edited by jcrb (edited 10-16-2002).]

solaia

Oct 16, 02, 7:40 am

US Air does not have the excess funds to track down the untargeted. When the bankruptcy judge and the creditors' committee get wind of this further waste of corporate assets, they will stop it immediately. Furthermore, if one mile is deducted from my account, I will join many of you and defect from US Air

pdhenry

Oct 16, 02, 8:15 am

One could conclude that US is refining their notion of who the "enemy" is following the rescinding of the no-tier-miles-for-cheap-tickets mess - didn't someone mention at the time that the coordinated cries of outrage from FT members played a significant part in their decision to rescind? Maybe they wish this board would just go away.

[This message has been edited by pdhenry (edited 10-16-2002).]

gardener

Oct 16, 02, 8:29 am

Anybody notioce how this issue (just like the tier miles debacle) has gotten a lot of lurkers to turn in to posters?

foodguy

Oct 16, 02, 8:51 am

Originally posted by pdhenry:
One could conclude that US is refining their notion of who the "enemy" is following the rescinding of the no-tier-miles-for-cheap-tickets mess - didn't someone mention at the time that the coordinated cries of outrage from FT members played a significant part in their decision to rescind? Maybe they wish this board would just go away.

[This message has been edited by pdhenry (edited 10-16-2002).]
It is clear that Ben & Dave hate their VFF. They were only partially successful punishing us during the Cockroach Crusade. I am sure they would like to make an example of the vocal militant cockroaches on this board.

U is on a slippery slope again.

jcrb

Oct 16, 02, 9:01 am

Originally posted by foodguy:
[QUOTE]
It is clear that Ben & Dave hate their VFF. They were only partially successful punishing us during the Cockroach Crusade. I am sure they would like to make an example of the vocal militant cockroaches on this board.


It's so obvious that if they just fixed the program to elimitate the behavior they don't like that there would be nothing to complain about, that I wonder if there is not something making then have to put on a show of this. Like a creditor who thinks we need to be punished or something.

I wonder if they want to actually fix the program (for example the "not valid with other bonuses" term is meaningless as it would make all their offers, even the public ones, cancel each other out), perhaps they just want to unwind things and hope we will go away and not have to spend money on actually fixing their computers.

Any of the more legaly minded here want to tweak avek00's letter into something we can all start sending to the BK judge to let him know US is about to start perpetrating a fraud against its VFF?

pitsheel

Oct 16, 02, 9:09 am

I don't think it would cost all that much to track us untargetted down. They must have it in their computers who received the postcards, etc. Its just a matter of them writing a program to get rid of all of our excess miles.

[This message has been edited by pitsheel (edited 10-16-2002).]

foodguy

Oct 16, 02, 9:13 am

Right now Ben and Dave are accustomed to having the upperhand with their "antagonists" i.e. Employee unions, creditors, etc. They are trying to add VFF and FT members to that list. They are so blindly focused on slashing and burning right now as they move towards their Utopian,"right size" airline that they are losing credibility with their very best customers. Hey Ben & Dave--We aren't the group you need to squeeze!!

us2

Oct 16, 02, 9:48 am

This situation is their own fault. If they'd just register the accounts they wish to target for a promotion themselves, this would never even be an issue. They could then send out an e-mail or post card indicating that the recipient has been preregistered for the bonus in question. Instead, they decide to generate yet more ill will with the company's best customers.

As for a class action, I see the issue as being a little murkier than others because of the program rules, which are stacked heavily in US' favor and which we accept when we participate in the program.

In any case, the days of the bonus code thread are unfortunately numbered. We have been warned.

chexfan

Oct 16, 02, 10:02 am

was I the only one who listened to geo??? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

PineyBob

Oct 16, 02, 10:05 am

Dear Ben & Dave,
I have noticed that you seem determined to run the airline your way! Leaving the concerns and opinions of your most loyal customer base out of the equation! My new employer wants me to go to DFW on Monday on an unrestricted "B" fare. I requested your airline! The fare I saw is in excess of $1,600! See Dave & Ben sometimes cockroachs like me turn into actual people and threatening them is much more perilous. As for your threat to penalize me for signing up for bonus codes posted on flyer talk, I have two words! One for each of you! Those words are
BITE ME!

PS: I think that a total of 8 airline NOT named US Airways fly from PHL to DFW. Threaten all you like but as your FA's say, "I have Choices"

Idowrite

Oct 16, 02, 10:30 am

I think I am one of many lurkers that frequently visit these boards but very rarely post. Yet this recent bonus code debacle is enough to warrant a reply.

Before I started visiting Flyertalk, I spread all my travel around on a few different airlines. But thanks to all that I've learned here, I started flying US almost exclusively and doing my best to maximize the miles and status I could get in return. In the past six months, my wife and I have flown about 30 segs each. I have gotten bonus miles from online booking, mci service, a boa platinum card, and other partner offers--and, oh yes, from a bunch of bonus code offers. We're both Gold on the verge of become CP.

I'd guess we've spent $6,000-8,000 on US tix this year and turned at least 10 friends or family on the joys of getting out more. I can see why US might want to modify its systems going forward to curb perceived abuses, but the airline should be aware that its policys helped motivate me to become a devoted customer, brought a signigicant sum of money into the US coffers, and yielded a number of word-of-mouth referrals. And now US wants to retroactivly punish me and people like me for all that support? Perhaps they don't realize that the GOM programs actually do inspire customers to get out more?

I need to book several trip in the next few days. Should I really give US the business?

jcrb

Oct 16, 02, 10:37 am

Originally posted by Idowrite:
I need to book several trip in the next few days. Should I really give US the business?

Wait and see if they come to their senses, if they don't indicate they have come to their senses before you have to book, book someone else and fax US a copy and tell them why. Make sure you tell all your friends to stop as well.

aks0516

Oct 16, 02, 11:03 am

The pig squealing I hear is from a bunch of crooks who have consistently tried to beat the system, and are now being called on it. All the self-serving justifications aside, if you got when you shouldn't have, then give it back. Sharing targeted codes IS fraudulent; just because it is easy for you to do don't make it right. This gimmee gimmee mentality is way, way out of control.

gnaget

Oct 16, 02, 11:16 am

gardener

Oct 16, 02, 11:20 am

Originally posted by TomBascom:
Didn't CO have an issue like this a year or so ago? Anyone know how they resolved it?



Anybody know the answer to Tom's question?

JL-327

Oct 16, 02, 11:58 am

Originally posted by flyertalk: (quoting US Airways Dividend Miles)

...Targeted promotions that are sent to Dividend Miles members or our partners via e-mail or direct mail, which generally require registration, cannot be earned by anyone except the original recipient of the e-mail or direct mail program...In addition, some members have registered for multiple promotions for which they were not targeted to earn extra miles or benefits...the terms and conditions of those promotions...state that the offers are not combinable with other offers... 

It's good that I'm slack at emptying my "deleted" messages folder - I found my August DM e-statement, which might further add to the discussion about whether US accepted my "offer" to register for these (multiple) overlapping bonuses or perhaps even "targeted" me...I received this statement AFTER signing up for GOM and 4/8/12 bonuses...I'll quote the good part:

"TABLE OF CONTENTS:
.....
- Up to 20K Miles Toward Your Preferred Status
- Double Miles Toward Your Preferred Status
......

UP TO 20K MILES TOWARD YOUR PREFERRED STATUS

Earn 4,000 bonus miles after 4 segments, 6,000 bonus miles after 8 segments and 10,000 bonus miles after 12 segments for a total of 20,000 bonus miles. Plus, your bonus miles will count toward earning 2003 Preferred status. You've already registered yourself for this offer, which is valid through October 31, 2002. Purchase your tickets at http://www.usairways.com , by calling US Airways Reservations or your travel agent.

DOUBLE MILES TOWARD YOUR PREFERRED STATUS

Earn DOUBLE MILES on every flight you take on US Airways and the US Airways Express carriers through October 31, 2002. Plus, your bonus miles will count toward earning 2003 Preferred status. You've already registered yourself for this offer. Purchase your tickets at http://www.usairways.com , by calling US Airways Reservations or your travel agent...."

nawlinsdoc

Oct 16, 02, 11:59 am

jcrb

Oct 16, 02, 12:00 pm

Originally posted by aks0516:
Sharing targeted codes IS fraudulent.

No its called "word of mouth advertizing".

There is nothing "gimmme gimmme" about this, US is not offering to return the lost time time we spent flying connections through PIT we didnt have to, or the revenue that they received solely becuase of the fact that they were permiting people to sign up for the bonuses something which they had been doing for years, they were aware of this, they permited it, they gained revenue becuase of it. We altered our travel plans past, present and future because of this.

The people who are exibiting poor behavior are those at US who want us to give them our money and be happy while fail to live up to their half of the deal.

danl08

Oct 16, 02, 12:05 pm

Originally posted by aks0516:
The pig squealing I hear is from a bunch of crooks who have consistently tried to beat the system, and are now being called on it. All the self-serving justifications aside, if you got when you shouldn't have, then give it back. Sharing targeted codes IS fraudulent; just because it is easy for you to do don't make it right. This gimmee gimmee mentality is way, way out of control.

How exactly is it stealing when I am PAYING them LOTS of $$$$ to fly. If they didn't want to sign me up for the promotional codes, fine, don't sign me up. Tell me I wasn't in the target group. Tell me they are trying to drive business from certain kinds of customers. I understand from a sales and marketing perspective why you would do that. I also understand that (USUALLY) these types of marketing activities have budgets associated with them to judge investment vs. revenue generated to determine whether or not a promotion worked. I also understand that someone that was running these programs would want to see lots of people sign up and pay out the awards because that would indicate that their promotion worked and they were doing a good job.
But to allow someone to sign up, accept their $$$$ for the flights, give the awards and THEN tell me I am "beating the system" is simply wrong. While I realize you probably work for U and dislike all of us that actually read all of the fine print and use the system to our advantage it may seem like we are taking advantage. But as very good and loyal customers we are simply taking what was given to us. Nothing more, nothing less. Fraud is defined as intentional deception (misrepresentation or concealment of information in order to deceive or mislead). I did not sign up under a false name, I did not lie to get put on the promotional codes I used, I did not in any way misrepresent my intentions.

jcrb

Oct 16, 02, 12:08 pm

Originally posted by JL-327:
I received this statement AFTER signing up for GOM and 4/8/12 bonuses...I'll quote the good part:

You've already registered yourself for this offer, which is valid through October 31, 2002

You've already registered yourself for this offer

This would appear to be evidence of deliberate behavior on the part of US to

a) allow registration for codes that they did not send you.

b) ignore the "not valid with other..." clause.

Beckles

Oct 16, 02, 12:14 pm

Originally posted by chexfan:
was I the only one who listened to geo??? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

Probably ...

ClueByFour

Oct 16, 02, 12:31 pm

Originally posted by JL-327:
It's good that I'm slack at emptying my "deleted" messages folder - I found my August DM e-statement, which might further add to the discussion about whether US accepted my "offer" to register for these (multiple) overlapping bonuses or perhaps even "targeted" me...I received this statement AFTER signing up for GOM and 4/8/12 bonuses...I'll quote the good part:


Thank you for that reminder. I just found that, in fact, US sent me a very similar thing in my August statement.

Note that it said nothing about "fradulent" promo codes or the like, but acknowledges my participation in said offers, and encourages me to buy--"Purchase your tickets at http://www.usairways.com , by calling US Airways Reservations or your travel agent."

Offer, acceptance, consideration, performance. I smell an implied contract.

------------------
Saving the world, one clue at a time.

tcollins33

Oct 16, 02, 12:40 pm

Here's the BK info:

Hon. Judge Stephen Mitchell
U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Eastern District of Virginia
P.O. Box 19247
Alexandria, VA 22320-0247

Reference Case No. 02-83985

cc:
Scott L. Hazan
Otterbourg Steindler Houston & Rosen PC
230 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10169-0075
(Counsel to the Official Committee of Unsecured Trade Creditors)

dreadmon

Oct 16, 02, 12:47 pm

gardener

Oct 16, 02, 1:32 pm

Originally posted by JL-327:
It's good that I'm slack at emptying my "deleted" messages folder - I found my August DM e-statement, which might further add to the discussion about whether US accepted my "offer" to register for these (multiple) overlapping bonuses or perhaps even "targeted" me...I received this statement AFTER signing up for GOM and 4/8/12 bonuses...


You're brilliant, buddy. Found my email which also noted I had signed up for 4xGOM and Amex Tier - and asked me to sign up for the 5000 mile transcon! This could be powerful evidence that they knew we were signed up for multiple bonuses and then went on to "induce" us to buy tickets!

gottigotti

Oct 16, 02, 2:36 pm

If i were you guys I would not worry about this too much. I think it is clear the US has no way of tracking who was offered what and who signed up for what.

On nwa.com when you try to sign up for a targeted promo it bounces you immediatly saying thanks, but no.

I think they are fishing for people to call to revoke miles. That being said I would not make my email address on FT the one associated with my frequent flyer program...

sbtinme

Oct 16, 02, 3:04 pm

My 2 cents = here's an airline that continues to layoff staff by the hundreds (incl many of the beloved, senior CP res folk). My thought is there is no way they'll have the manhours laying around for the hundreds of hours involved to reverse the mileage earned on what would be a relatively tiny percentage of accounts.

Contrary to what many have stated here, I think it will be most difficult for US to determine just exactly WHO was targeted for WHAT. (I base that comment on my numerous calls to the service center over the years and the res agents admitted that "things were pretty screwy and they had no visibility to that sort of thing.")

PineyBob

Oct 16, 02, 4:14 pm

I have a question! Who put the FF programs together? the Airlines or the customers? OH that's right the airlines did, didn't they? So if they want to see who is responsible for the "fraudelent" activity then perhaps they had best look in the mirror.

I mean it's like you go into the boss and say "May I have a raise?" The boss says "YES"! Whose fault is it that you got a raise?

I log onto US Airways.com and say "may I have the following promotions and here are my codes" and US give you them whose fault is it!

Follow it through, If my boss decides that I was given a raise in error and rescinds my raise how long do you think I'll continue to work there?

Spiff

Oct 16, 02, 5:22 pm

I'll bite.

"What did geo say?"

Originally posted by chexfan:
was I the only one who listened to geo??? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

RichS

Oct 16, 02, 5:28 pm

So is anyone communicating these messages to US directly? I'm sure Mr I & Mr B do not read FT - how do they know our reaction, disgust, etc.?

Perhaps communicate our message and creative alternatives, future actions, etc. (Don't retract miles, we will reform our ways, blah, blah, blah).

Otherwise this is just a big b&*#h session.

CoMooter

Oct 16, 02, 6:51 pm

Since this is about AirFredo (they are truly dead to me after last month's unforgiveable insult - no US GP for me after 2/03), I'm a little late to this party.

My take, UA MP has told DM to clean up their act since they are probably starting to share DB info - and UA is shocked at DM's RPU procedures (or lack thereof). Much like the probable tightening of DM benefits 'down' to UA's level for next year, UA is also concerned about cheapening of MP with too many free miles being handed out over at US.

As most UA MP types know already...MP bonues are far and few between and usually very restrictive on fare classes when they exist.

Welcome to the party.

Air Pirate

Oct 16, 02, 7:18 pm

OK, I've been away for a couple of days (travelling on US, no less) and missed this thread. But what it boils down to now is this:

1) US apparently said "turn yourself in and we'll take away your 'ill-gotten' miles; don't turn yourself in and risk even worse consequences."

2) After public outcry, US then apparently said "turn yourself in or we'll take away your 'ill-gotten' miles."

Umm, what is my incentive to "turn myself in" if the only thing they are claiming that they threatened to do is the same thing they would do if I "turned myself in"? None.

Also, much agreement with the repeated comments that it's US's responsibility to police its own system, the good legal analysis that's been presented here, and the comment that US probably doesn't have any real way to track this down.

This is a PR disaster for US. If they wanted to accomplish what I *think* they're trying to accomplish in a better way, they simply should have come on here with a signed message and said "We know what you're doing. We don't want you to do this any more. Stop." I would have respected that. I do not respect the way this was done, especially given that US clearly was aware of what promotions folks here were registering for and how. If they got a result they did not desire, it is because of their own inattention and inaction.

[This message has been edited by Air Pirate (edited 10-16-2002).]

Piegow

Oct 16, 02, 7:25 pm

Beware! All those who signed up for the Gay and Lesbian Bonus are about to have their sexual orientation investigated.

djk7

Oct 16, 02, 7:47 pm

Originally posted by Piegow:
Beware! All those who signed up for the Gay and Lesbian Bonus are about to have their sexual orientation investigated.

Lets hope they don't have the technology to effect a forceable change if you "fraudulently" signed up for this bonus.

TrojanHorse

Oct 16, 02, 7:52 pm

As I was considering making the UA/US partnership a part of my 2003 travel plans, its crapola like this that makes my decision easier to go over to AA as a second carrier.
If you are reading this USAir, What I have to say to you will only violate the TOS of FT.. otherwise you take a guess to what I want to say!!!

umguy

Oct 16, 02, 9:23 pm

I just have a question. If this is something they were really going to do. Wouldn't they contact us indiviually on not on a 3rd party website? Also, how would they be able to choose between people who just lucked up and found them on their website and people on flyertalk. I don't think they could or would want to open that can of worms. Unless they are really trying to put themselves out of business. But then again, they have done other stupid things in the past and called it "For the good of the company"

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Somewhere in the world a Boeing jet is taking off or landing every second —24 hours a day, seven days a week.

infiniteflyer

Oct 16, 02, 10:24 pm

It seems strange to me that this announcement has only been made on FT too. I wonder if anyone has received any "targeted" bonus miles (that they weren't targeted for) in their accounts over the last two days. If they're still allowing people to earn them, ...

PHLFlyerDL

Oct 16, 02, 11:13 pm

One comment on all of this..I know I got something for nothing..but I also know they knew about it all along (they do have luckers even answering posts)..if they wanted not to make a bad situation worst: then clean up their IT systems (are these same that run safety records for them..maybe FAA should look into it.mean if they cannot get the FF program right what else is wrong--that make an interesting press article??) and just tell us bad people to stop..and I would and not be looking to leave instead.

QQEvan

Oct 16, 02, 11:25 pm

Does this impact the status of my 'Club Z' points?

jkzahn

Oct 17, 02, 7:13 am

The whole thing is pretty laughable. Should we register for a promo that we don't meet the T&C for? No, assuming we know what all the T&C are.

However, it is really the fault of US for not fixing their IT systems. If they were so concerned, they should register the accounts themselves, and then send a card to those people telling them what they have been registered for (don't ever have to give out a code).

or

And this is a novel idea. Why don't their systems only allow the correct accounts to register?

As far as revoking accounts and some such. Well, I could think of 20-30 people I know who AREN'T members of this forum but have browsed here....or had codes passed to them in e-mail...etc...etc....and have registered for various promotions. Imagine their irritation when for some reason unknown to them, US starts pulling their miles, status, etc. While I wouldn't be terribly surprised given other recent attempts, it would be the single stupidest move in the history of marketing.

So, for me, the bottom line is that the past will probably be the past....but we are liable for our future actions (and I think US is liable for responsible marketing as well which includes securing their promotions better) and should follow the rules and wishes they have explicitly laid out for us.

Just my two cents.

foodguy

Oct 17, 02, 8:58 am

dreadmon

Oct 17, 02, 12:58 pm

So I'm wondering...should we start a "victims" list? Whenever someone actually does get miles deducted and/or (God forbid) status revoked, tell this thread what the details were?

jetsetter

Oct 17, 02, 4:16 pm

Really, what kind of crack are they smoking in Fort Fumble? Can anyone site a business practices article, i.e. from a respectable business journal or magazine, that proposes and advances the idea that it makes sense to screw and piss off your customers? I was a business major undergrad (no MBA) but have never read any theory or suggestion that it makes sense to disenfranchise your customers, let alone your loyal one's in a bad economy. They need to be doing things that will encourage travel, and forget about the ideal of yester-year when they could sell more Y seats to a sizling .com economy that had more money than it knew what to do with.

Finally can anyone site another industry or type of company that has either considered or let alone put in to practice a strategy such as set forth in the first post of this thread? It seems that even household named name agencies, like the IRS, have rather recently made concertted efforts to be more customer centricly focussed. The majors really perhaps aught to be run out of business so that innovaters who take the customer experience more seriously thrive and survive, while those fixated on the past die off as the industry evolves.....survival of the fittest, etc. On a recent UA flight, they had on UA radio a guy talking about CEM (in lieu of CRM) which stands for customer experience management. The CEO of this company has written a book, do a search for customer experience management, and unlike CRM the premise of CEM is to always never take your customers for granted, constanly take feedback for improvement from the customers, and strive to "wow" your customers at evry "touch point" that they have with your business. How does it "wow" a customer if you now have to pay for standby, and receive vague threats (not any worse than a criminal) that miles will be taken away, etc. Why doesn't whatever executive(s) that dreamed this up post under their own name? And why does some mysterious employee of Randy bow to this extent to the airlines. I would have preferred Randy's operations just post what they heard, and put a statement that, we take no position on this and will let the community decide what it is worth or what you will do about it. Why is Randy getting in the business of doing the airlines dirty work? US Airways certainly has the capability to send an email to all DM members with their policy statements.

Finally of the population of DM members, what percentage actually go stay more than 5,000 miles out of this thread? Talk about having your priorities in dis array. Your losing customers and money, in Chatper 11, and you try to (week after week) dream up things that will offend your customers, and make them speak negatively about your carrier that probably already is not viewed favorably as a result of Chapter 11 by the average person who flies infrequently. Instead of using your customers as marketing partners, you do things to anger them, and perhaps make them discourage their personal and business associates from flying US. And all the while, you naively think that this will make more people buy Y fares. These bonuses have stimulated a handful of sales that you would have had no hope of getting otherwise, and they have filled seats that would have forever gone empty. And you capacity control the awards anyway, so what are you worried about? Maybe I should find that book on Customer Experience Management, and send it to Ben, Mike, and whomever else so they know "wowing" the customer is what will win them over.

J0HN

Oct 17, 02, 4:56 pm

I just called and had them remove my miles, I feel much better now http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

US should have just done what CO did: Let everyone keep their miles, and charge them double whenever they want to redeem an award.

syzygy8

Oct 17, 02, 5:00 pm

I think US Airways has a point in saying that we're not supposed to be getting bonus miles for bonuses we weren't targeted for. And I think most of us here in flyertalk agree that the answer to all of this is simply for US Airways to set up the registration system so it only allows enrollment that US Airways deems legitimate.

That being said, however, I cannot for the life of me understand the continuing foray into foolishness that the execs at US seem to enjoy. It really is mind boggling. I'm reading jetsetter's post above and he's right.

There was absolutely no reason whatsoever for US Airways management to start "going after" people's supposed "abuse or misuse" of marketing bonuses. All US had to do was silently change the system so it works the way they want it to work when you register. It accomplishes what they're trying to do, and it doesn't piss off their existing customers.

AN OPEN QUESTION TO US AIRWAYS EXECS WHO MAY BE LURKING:

Whether or not these purportedly "improperly obtained" miles remain in people's accounts or are taken away, there are some seriously poor decisions being made by US Airways executives. It really seems as though you're not thinking things through regarding consequences, ramifications, public opinion, and customer reaction before you go public with things. I can't believe you cannot see the short-sightedness of your methods. Can you please, in some form, perhaps another contact to House of Miles, or even a flyertalk chat, explain to us how you are coming up with your decisions on changes you want to make, and how you choose to implement those changes? Your loyal and regular customers are continuing to find more reasons to be less regular and less loyal because of your methods.

gardener

Oct 17, 02, 6:39 pm

Interesting. Just received an offer for double miles on NW in the snail mail. Includes flights and all partners; you get 500 miles just for signing up. Naturally I signed up. Then I tried to sign up my wife - within seconds I got this message:

We are sorry, the WorldPerks number entered is not eligible for this promotion. This offer was created specifically for the WorldPerks member who received the promotion and only the WorldPerks number listed on the promotion piece may be registered. The offer may not be transferred to other WorldPerks members.

Thank you for your interest and click here for other promotional opportunities.

Seems like USAirways web coders could stand to learn something from the fellows in MSP. Naaah, they're response is "Thank you for registering", "Push 1 to register for more bonus offers or *D to exit", send you emails congratulating you for registering, award the miles to entice you to buy more tix, then post anonymous messages through 3rd parties basically accusing their VFF's of being criminals.

Ya gotta wonder.

jcrb

Oct 17, 02, 6:48 pm

Originally posted by gardener:
[B response is "Thank you for registering", "Push 1 to register for more bonus offers or *D to exit[/B]

I just went and used the phone to sign my better half up for some the of the public promos (you know the ones I'm supposed to be able to sign up for...) and it goes. "You must be preselected to register for some promotions"... and then "you are now registered".

So let me ask you this, hypothecialy speaking.. if I were to register for an "evil targeted promo" and it said the same thing.... is there any reason that I should not conclude from this that I was in fact preselected. After all I was told that I was registered.

TomBascom

Oct 17, 02, 7:00 pm

Originally posted by J0HN:
US should have just done what CO did: Let everyone keep their miles, and charge them double whenever they want to redeem an award.

But CO does that to everyone... airlines love to emulate each other's worst ideas so be careful what you say http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Seriously -- they had this problem, noticed it and made an issue of it with at least some people. What's the full story?

PremEx

Oct 18, 02, 11:37 pm

How about the guy that was just told about the current generosity of US Airways program bonuses, was given a bunch of codes to enter, did so, was excepted into the promotion with a thank you, and then proceeded to purchase tickets with the full intension of switching some of his 200,000 miles plus annual flying over from another airline?

This person didn't know that they were targeted offers.

This person didn't know they weren't eligable.

This person didn't know that they weren't combinable.

Mister Happy Computer just said "You're in baby! Get out there and buy that ticket!"

How did this person commit fraud?

This person was very hesitant to move business over to US after the "no miles for low fares" fiasco.

This person should have smelled a rat.

This person should have known better.

This person will never give another dime to US Airways unless there is no other choice of carriers.

This person puts up with a lot of crud from his own favorite airline and keeps flying them. Because with all that airline's shortcomings, they at least don't seem to be purposefully screwing him.

But this? This is takes the cake. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

These are examples of direct hostility and disrespect towards US Airway's best customers. The manner, tone and method of the communication and intent of management of US Airways is quite simply unbelieveable!

And I would be amazed if anyone would voluntarily want to maintain a relationship with this company, after seeing how they handle these situations and view their customers.

I would now only fly this airline if I absolutly had to.

US Airways...this person intends to fight for their miles as a matter of principle. But you'll never get another penny from them if they have any say over their travel plans, regardless of the outcome. So don't think you'll have to cave in for this guy's benefit in hopes of smoothing some ruffled feathers. Feel free to defend yourself and deny until the cows come home.

And congratulations on your lastest and greatest experiment in "Sales Prevention."

May it go down in Marketing history.

I know that this person considers their brief participation with US Airways as the shortest lived example of loyalty in history. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

You had your chance to gain a very good customer. And you blew it.

PremEx

Oct 18, 02, 11:41 pm

And if you ask my opinion, it's US Airways that's the one committing fraud here.

And is the one in violation of FlyerTalk TOS.

777lover

Oct 19, 02, 5:51 am

Originally posted by Piegow:
Beware! All those who signed up for the Gay and Lesbian Bonus are about to have their sexual orientation investigated.

Will Ben be conducting these investigations?

"Bendover...this won't hurt at all"

trvlr64

Oct 19, 02, 7:28 am

Originally posted by Piegow:
Beware! All those who signed up for the Gay and Lesbian Bonus are about to have their sexual orientation investigated.

Oh I know I will enjoy proving this promotion!! I should get 100,000 or more miles though if I have to prove it on Ben!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

mileshound

Oct 19, 02, 9:08 am

I am the last to defend US but I must make one point.

If you read the postings US Airways never said the word "fraud". They only stated that people violated the terms and conditions of the offer (valid for addressee only). Yes, I agree they did not have procedures in place to enforce the offers...yadda, yadda, yadda... and the word violated is too strong.

It was flyertalk that said that we cannot commit fraud, buy/sell miles etc. as their part of their T&C.

Nobody said we committed fraud - just getting miles that were not part of the T&C of the offer.

I just hope they leave everyone's accounts alone and just clean up their IT shop.

irabk

Oct 19, 02, 11:17 am

I must admit, I have been right there with the rest of you (us) cockroaches, feasting on the bounty of miles, and jumping on the low fares to make status and bump up our status, and engaging in the insane practice of "milage runs".

But, I have to say to all of us, hold the phone.

When Ben made a complete a** of himself with his mismarketing plan, we jumpted on him faster than e-mail at 3:00AM.

Maybe we are a little too primed to jump again. It has been said here before, and bears repeating.

WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM US AIRWAYS.

Everything we have heard comes via a third unidentified party, relaying information from another unidentified party.

Maybe this is how US wants to drop a hint. Great. Hint taken. They have made their internal change (maybe) and updated the phone system (halfway).

Until anyone can come back and demostrate the REMOVAL of miles, this is just a stupid way to drop a hint. No fingerprints, no liability. How many of us have not had miles from one promo or another not post?

Anyone here get less miles than they deserved (going by the book) on any flights recently. I think not. How can we complain about not getting that last few thousand miles for a flight when we received over 35,000 miles for a transcon ($240) and over 15,000 for a east coast flight under $150.

Read the pamphlet in the seatback in front of you:

In case of emergency, put the mask on AND TAKE A COUPLE OF DEEP BREATHS.

Let's make sure there is a fight to fight.

TomBascom

Oct 19, 02, 1:08 pm

Originally posted by irabk:
...WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM US AIRWAYS.

Everything we have heard comes via a third unidentified party, relaying information from another unidentified party...


Good points.

I've got to admit I was rather taken aback by House Of Miles implication of "fraud". The bonus code thread has always had a very prominent note regarding eligibility and "the rules".

I've always viewed it as a nice consolidated list of bonuses that helps me not have to keep every scrap of paper or e-mail that US sends. If I'm heading out on a trip to a location I haven't been to for a while the first thing I do is check for a special bonus to nearby airports. You'd think that that is exactly the sort of activity that US wants us to engage in...

TomBascom

Oct 19, 02, 1:14 pm

And another thing -- where in the DM rules has there ever been a prohibition against sharing? "Valid for addressee only" (on the subset of promotions where it appears) isn't the same as "you can't tell anyone about this" and given the numerous reports of DM simply adding people to the target list upon inquiry "no sharing" seems a very indefensible position.

Beckles

Oct 19, 02, 1:38 pm

Originally posted by irabk:
WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM US AIRWAYS.

Everything we have heard comes via a third unidentified party, relaying information from another unidentified party. 

Ummm, my message early in the thread, as I stated, comes from an identified source within US Airways, Mike Isom. Yes, it's from a third party, but the original source of the information certainly is not "unidentified".

mileshound

Oct 19, 02, 1:41 pm

US should have said nothing and just made the system changes. By saying they may take back miles or drop people's tiers just get the troops riled up. They just saw what happens when we get excited in the no tier mile for cheap ticket issue.

I agree with them for not posting a message here. If it was their first post we have all wondered if it was for real. We would have found a reason to blast them why they didn't post for other issues, have official representation, etc.

One thing we learned is that they are making and will continue to make system changes to the bonus system. If you are thinking of purchsing a ticket with the sole purpose of mega-miles, you should think twice.

If this ends as it is today, I think we both can live with it. We got our benefits and US now has cleaned up some of their systems. A bonus will truely be a bonus and not an expectation.

PremEx

Oct 19, 02, 1:43 pm

TomBascom writes: And another thing -- where in the DM rules has there ever been a prohibition against sharing? "Valid for addressee only" (on the subset of promotions where it appears) isn't the same as "you can't tell anyone about this" and given the numerous reports of DM simply adding people to the target list upon inquiry "no sharing" seems a very indefensible position.

Exactly. They can't demand that you keep information confidential!!! They need an explicit non-disclosure agreement to float that boat.

And the recepient of said information is often not even privy to whatever terms were placed on the original addressee!

These things have to be controlled at the registration point.

When that phone said "Thank You, you have now been registered for this promotion"...as far they were concerned, they were registered for that promotion!!

And tickets were purchased as a direct result of that successful registration!

Whether or not this fire drill was communicted to us correctly or not, it did come from US Airways. And even the fact that this is the way they elected to communicate this (asking WebFlyer to act as a third party), is almost as bad and unprofessional as the act itself, IMHO.

The problem is they must have known about this for weeks, and knowingly let folks register, purchase and fly on tickets that they must have known they were not intending to honor the bonus on.

And even if they didn't know, they certainly should have looked at the situation and said, "Shoot. Let's fix this thing. But you know we can't go back and tell these folks that purchased under the assumption they were registered, that we made a mistake in allowing them to register, and take the miles from them. We're going to have to honor it."

But noooooooo. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Fraud or no fraud, if this is indicitive of an adversarial relationship that this airline views it has with it's customers, and/or if this is indicitive of the professionalism of management in handling these types of situations...well... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 10-19-2002).]

idealflyer

Oct 19, 02, 4:48 pm

Thank you for flying US Airways, a proud partner of GoldPoints?!? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

------------------
Going back to the bAAsics

avek00

Oct 19, 02, 5:22 pm

I will go so far as to say that from a legal and practical standpoint, US is certainly well within its right to take away the miles and even punish untargeted members who signed up for the bonuses. However, my argument is that from a FINANCIAL standpoint, it makes little sense for US to compromise potential future revenue generation by attacking some of its highest-yield clients.

FWIW, I'm not even referring to myself; rather, I'm talking about the Chairman's Preferred members who flew the 100K or 100 segments on full Y fares. It makes no sense for US to go after those folks, who likely paid in excess of $1 for each mile flown with the company.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

TomBascom

Oct 19, 02, 7:39 pm

Originally posted by avek00:
... I'm talking about the Chairman's Preferred members who flew the 100K or 100 segments on full Y fares. It makes no sense for US to go after those folks, who likely paid in excess of $1 for each mile flown with the company.

Neither of those two individuals is aware of the bonus code thread...

avek00

Oct 19, 02, 8:25 pm

Originally posted by TomBascom:
Neither of those two individuals is aware of the bonus code thread...

LOL! That's a good one, Tom. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

[This message has been edited by avek00 (edited 10-19-2002).]

irabk

Oct 19, 02, 10:12 pm

Originally posted by Beckles:
Ummm, my message early in the thread, as I stated, comes from an identified source within US Airways, Mike Isom. Yes, it's from a third party, but the original source of the information certainly is not "unidentified".

Beckles, not to split hairs, but I, as it appears most of us here as well, still have not heard from US Air. You have received confirmation from Mike Isom that they passed along info to FlyerTalk to pass along info to us, BUT as a paying customer and Dividend Miles member of US Air, I feel any communication regarding changes to the program need to be between US Air and myself.

Sorry, but that is how a 4th grade club communicates, not a major corporation, even one in bankrupcy. I went back and reviewed your message, and quite frankly, that 4th grade club plays telephone better than US Air. The message was garbled on one pass, and a clarification was passed along in your message. "We will ask them to change the verbiage" your message says, and the verbage has not been changed.

I don't recall delivering payment or booking my ticket via FlyerTalk. US Air should not be communicating with me through them. Any OFFICIAL communication should be directly from the company to the customer.

If they want to pass along a heads up