My sister told me the check in agent in PHX this morning said that by the end of the year, they were removing 1st class seats. He went on to complain that her cheap airfare didn't cover the cost of 1st class service. Maybe a disgruntled employee??

Maybe they are going to go the route of Southwest - no 1st and "get in line real early to get an decent seat" boarding. They would lose a heck of a lot of flyers, but that would explain the current bonanzas on the other thread that I won't mention ever again. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tribe01:
... He went on to complain that her cheap airfare didn't cover the cost of 1st class service. Maybe a disgruntled employee??</font>

Dirsgruntled? Perhaps. Unprofessional? Extremely so, if you ask me. If he would've said that to me, I would've pointed out that, while it is true that I'm flying FC on a very cheap fare today, the main reason I'm able to do so is because I fly this airline so much and so frequently, so it's a good way to compensate me for putting up with the likes of him....

Obviously, I'd only say that if I already had my FC boarding pass... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

While it's unlikely those nice seats are coming out, you have to sort of notice that the moguls who run these companies are all of a sudden singing the praises of Southwest and their lowfare cohorts. Much the same as a condemned man acquires religion at the end, Siegel, Carty, and the rest of Snow White's helpers have all decided they've been doing it wrong. So they'll fix it. Those pesky passengers can just sit in those hubs an extra couple of hours. What the heck...we promised all those airport retailers we'd deliver captive customers. And while we're at it, let's get some more teenage pilots and put them in those snazzy RJ's. I know... we can call the service "T Class" (for Thrombosis).Never mind that the people who built the successful upstart carriers had a vision. We'll just copy the simple stuff. No food, no bag check to other flights, lines at the gate, and one class of service. The traveling public will flock to us. How can we miss? Our planes are just as new,and our crews must be better. After all, we pay them about 30% more than anybody else does theirs. And finally, we just have to succeed. We're building the system around the Philly hub. It must really be the right place, Why else would all those airplanes want to land there at the same time every day? Boy, this is easy, fixing an airline.

There's no way they would do this. There'd be no room for the United pilots when the partnership goes through!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tribe01:
My sister told me the check in agent in PHX this morning said that by the end of the year, they were removing 1st class seats. He went on to complain that her cheap airfare didn't cover the cost of 1st class service. Maybe a disgruntled employee??</font>

The comment about "the cost of 1st class service" is just plain stupid. There is a misconception that because there is an F fare and it lists for $2,500 that the service in 1st somehow costs the airline something which approximates that number.

That's crap. There's no relationship between that fare and the cost to the airline of that seat. On a typical U Airbus the largest component of the cost of 12 FC seats is probably the 6 coach seats that could have been put in their place -- so if your flight is 100% sold out (and there were people turned away) then your upgrade seat cost the airline 50% of a coach fare (likely a V fare too for that matter.) Then there's the cost of the snack basket and drinks to consider... or, on a transcon, the cost of the meal. In either case we're not exactly running up thousands of dollars in costs nor are we pushing the airline into BK.

The argument that cheap tickets are "the problem" is almost as specious.

I heard a rumor that the newer & bigger RJs will have a FC cabin. I tend to believe that one -- it makes more sense. There's no way that the majors can hope to succeed by emulating "no frills". They need service differentiation.

Right now SWA has a couple of key leads -- flexibility is the main one that I hear from my fellow business travelers -- not just low fares. SWA makes it easy to change your plans with minimal hassle. Contrast that to the hoops that you jump through with any of the majors -- restrictions, changes fees, add/collects and on and on and on... That flexibility combined with low fares is why SWA is a threat to pick up business travel.

You're on the mark Tom. These guys are now trying to size the product to their costs. In the blame game, the regular customer is at fault. We're taking up those seats, and not paying enough for them. Presumably it's also our fault that crew costs are significantly higher at US than at their competitors. We apparently also are the reason for all that borrowed money (while dividends and bonuses were being paid), and of course it must have been us who ran it into the ground trying to cash out in the original United deal. Good thing responsible management has been looking out for shareholder interests, or lord knows what else we may have done.

Hey, why doesn't U just find a Mashantucket Pequot or Connecticut Mohegan to run the company and put video poker or slots into the back of every seat? Think of the revenue potential. The two CT casinos net a total of about $120MM a MONTH, of which they each give the state 25%.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tribe01:
He went on to complain that her cheap airfare didn't cover the cost of 1st class service. Maybe a disgruntled employee??</font>

So far, I haven't met an obnoxious electronic check-in kiosk. I probably would have told this guy that it's agents like him that are encouraging companies to replace front line customer contact personnel with automated solutions.

One day, they'll offer me 1,000 Dividend Miles just to deal with the likes of him.

I was in the grocery store yesterday -- after reading this thread I was half expecting the check-out clerk to abuse me for having the nerve to present my frequent shopper card while taking my sale items through the express lane...