I actually heard an agent threaten a customer, a CP nonetheless. He was arguing that he had paid the change fee. She insisted that he didn't. He got upset and told her she was being rude. At this point, she said, "Sir, I will call the State Police on you. I don't have to take your belligerence".

More history.......

3PM Wednesday, 15 people in preferred line, one gate agent, who happens to be doing a re-route or something involving extra work. Three agents are standing around unused kiosks, one picking her teeth, another smacking on some gum, oblivious to their preferreds waiting. and waiting. And waiting.

10 Minutes later, two of us ask for a supervisor. The lone agent shouts, "there isn't anyone, you'll just have to wait", and proceeds to mumble about the "us versus them" plight they face from their horrible customers.

When a supervisor does appear, so does another agent. The former "lone agent" begins to yell at her current passenger in front of the sup, the other agent, and me; and the rest is described above.

Continues to make me feel good about my 110K miles this year.

Guess Boston gets its training from Philly.

the STATE POLICE? god, i hope the massachusetts state police have better things to do.

i used to give an agent a piece of my mind when something went wrong, but lately, i just keep my mouth shut, smile, and deal with it later -- chairman's desk, consumer affairs, etc. as a minority, i really am terrified of what a hostile gate agent can do to me--i fully appreciate that gate agents can have to deal with some very difficult customers, but how many customers (chairman's preferred customers at that...), could do something to warrant a call to the state police? that sort of threat should be reserved for serious verbal abuse only.

That happened several weeks ago at Newark. Because of delays in clearing security (2 hours), mainly due to AA moving its passengers ahead of us, so they wouldn't miss their flights, about 40 of us get to the gate as the plane is pulling off the gate. One guy asks why they didn't wait, and the agent says "that's it, I'm calling the police". A few minutes later, 3 cops show up and demand to know who threatened the agent. Since nobody did, nobody responds, at which point the suggestion is maybe they will detain everybody. By the way, when asked, the agent can't even remember. Eventually we resolve it, and the pilot even brings the plane back to get us. The point is, some of these airport employees are using this capability to resolve their own frustrations. It's truly a case of no management....and a little power tripping, like in "hey you...take off your shoes and don't throw them at me". And they wonder why the high yield business people are chartering.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by deelmakur:
The point is, some of these airport employees are using this capability to resolve their own frustrations. It's truly a case of no management....and a little power tripping, like in "hey you...take off your shoes and don't throw them at me"...</font>Yep. It's been said before, and I'll agree w/ it again.

By the way shinbal, if you didn't include that last line in the original post, I was gonna ask, "When did you fly through Philly?" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by chexfan (edited 03-14-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by deelmakur:
The point is, some of these airport employees are using this capability to resolve their own frustrations. It's truly a case of no management....and a little power tripping, like in "hey you...take off your shoes and don't throw them at me"...</font>

I recently "disrepected" a shoe screener at MIA when I flipped my loafers into the plastic bin instead of gingerly placing them in the bin.

The shoe screener stared at me for about two minutes until a supervisor appeared and interrogated me for another five; "Why did you throw your shoes at the screener?" she demanded. I just sat there like English was my third language until my shoes were returned to me while the supervisor vented on me.

Me, I'd be more worried about the guy with the huge hightops stuffed with explosives who very gingerly places them on the counter than the guy with the thin loafers who casually tosses them into the bin...but then I'm not a high-paid, super intelligent soldier in the war against airport terrorism like they are. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

While working gates in PHL, I've had my ID card ripped off from around my neck, been pushed, had my pen swiped out of my hand so someone could "take my name" and been verbally threatened on more than one occasion. Yet, I was/am a good agent and have customer comments to prove it.

Dealing with the folks that have spent time in the club or airport bar boozing it up can make things really nasty. Also, a lot of passengers approach PHL with the attitude that "this is Philly, where everyone's nasty and incompetent, so I'm going to be nasty to them." As a result there are folks with a chip on their shoulder that don't even give you a chance.

[Shinbal and others footnote many posts with anti-Philly comments. Although it's unfortunate that you've had bad experiences, and I don't deny there's more than enough dead wood in PHL, we're not all bad. Since I've been furloughed and have no intention of going back, we won't have the chance to cross paths.]

I realized early on that you are on your own and yes, I will call the police. They are patrolling the airport so I will take advantage of it. I don't want to be the next big story on CourtTV (like that CO agent in EWR). Supervisors won't come if you call. Jeez, most of them take the supervisor job simply to get a full time schedule. No one wants that hassle for $1 more an hour.

Maybe I have a different perspective. I know at the very least I have a different work ethic. I spent a few years with US while in college, then quit to go to a "real job" where I worked in operations, and later software development. I traveled the world, lived in Singapore and France for over a year each, made good money, but just wasn't happy. Knowing you start at the bottom with an airline, I went back last year. Friends looked at me like I was nuts for taking an entry-level job - and that's exactly how the customers acted too. I wanted to say "I've done your job and know how miserable it can be, Mr. business casual-dockers/polo-laptop toting-cellphone talking man." But heck, I'm just the lowly agent in Philly, so how can I have a brain?

Maybe it's the American mentality where you're measured by the job you do and what you earn. My friend is an agent in Copenhagen for SAS and it's interesting to share stories on how we're perceived differently by the public. One thing's for sure, he doesn't have to call the police or worry about his safety simply by working during irregular ops.

I think the point is that there is a big difference between *words* and *deeds*. If someone attacks you, you should definitely call the cops. If they *threaten* to attack you, you should call the cops. But saying "you're being rude", is not a threat, and that agent was way out of line.

Personally, I am always very polite to agents, no matter what the circumstances. I know they have a difficult job and I also know I will never make anything better for myself by turning things into a confrontation. Once someone sees an interaction as a confrontation they see you as an enemy, and no reasonable person helps their enemies.

But much as I sympathize with the agents, it doesn't give them a right to play god or make false accusations. They have a right to be safe, but they do not have a right to vent on customers. It's unprofessional and just plain wrong. I also think it's wrong of customers to vent on agents, but people have a constitutional right to be rude. God help us if we start locking people up for that.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by idomoneus:
I think the point is that there is a big difference between *words* and *deeds*.</font>

I don't deny there is a difference. However, it's a viscious circle where past experiences lead some folks to have a knee-jerk reaction to situations. You may have had a situation in the past go bad suddenly or unexpectedly, and you know how long it takes for help to arrive, so you jump the gun and call the police (or threaten to call) for something that might not seem too terrible at the time.

Bottom line is that there is no support out there for the front line staff. The 150:1 ratio of customers to agents can also be intimidating, especially when things go bad. Some people handle it better than others, as in any profession or situation.

Nature vs nurture?

Are agents in Philly a PITA because they were born that way...

OR

Are they PITAs because of working in the pressure cookers that is Philly, which USAirways hopelessly continues to overschedule and delays continue to plague?

I guess that's the real question. The end result is any frequent US flier does their best to avoid Philly, whoever's fault it might be.

(I don't know how most discussions about bad USAirways experiences always end up with us talking about Philly http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )

I think the point here is that we're all frustrated with the system these days. Nothing excuses using the police as a threat, but as I look at the long lines caused by management cutting CSR jobs, I can see how an agent would get frustrated. At the same time, we passengers are tired of being treated like prospective criminals at the same time that the company is enforcing every stupid fee and rule on the books. The whole situation is a prescription for ugly behavior all the way around.

These days, I force a smile on my face, expect the worst, argue with no one and figure that whatever needs to be straightened out I'll take care of when I get home. If that fails, there's always Xanax...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by us2:
If that fails, there's always Xanax...</font>

Hey. geo's transcon drug of choice!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pitflyer:
Are agents in Philly a PITA because they were born that way...

OR

Are they PITAs because of working in the pressure cookers that is Philly, which USAirways hopelessly continues to overschedule and delays continue to plague?
</font>

Customer service is very different in Philly overall - anyone who's left the airport can attest to that. Being from here numbs you to it. There's a confrontational element that is visible in everything here: from the country's worst sports fans to labor problems that make the news almost daily. Philly has the lowest repeat convention rate of any city due to problems at the convention center, where brawls have broken out between labor groups setting up exhibitions.

Amazingly enough I did not get furloughed because of cutbacks at PHL (since there were relatively few at that station). However, I was bumped out by folks transferring in from other cities that did have cutbacks. In my final days there I was working with a lot of people from DCA (which was closed/severely limited at that time), MCO, BWI, SYR, ROC, etc. These are the same agents that called Philly a cesspool prior to showing up for work there (rightfully so in many instances). However, when they started to get recalled home again, they didn't want to go. Lots of people stayed on, citing varying reasons: lower cost of living, availability of overtime, lack of supervision on the job, etc.

This isn't the first time USAir employees have been transplanted to PHL en masse...ask around and you'll find lots of former Piedmont, PSA and Empire people from BUF, SFO, DAY, IND, CMH, SAN, etc. who've come in over the years. They could've gone home again, but stayed. And their attitudes can be just as miserable as the next guy.

Management has tried (and tried and tried) to make changes in Philly. It just doesn't happen. But that's how this town is as a whole. Is it right? No. But USAir in Philly really is just a small reflection of the way things go in this town.

So the answer is nurture then?

Man, I better do my best to counteract that influence on my best friend who just moved to Philly!

For PHLFlyer and others, I would call the police if someone threatened me. But asking an agent to get a supervisor or additional help isn't a threat.

Everyone in that Boston line yesterday had the same thought: It's a shame that bad management and poor watchdogging has left this agent all alone at a busy time, running one line for the airline's best customers.

The agent chose not to receive that. She took the "You versus me, and I'm the one with the power". That's poor training.

There are 100 better ways to respond than the way that agent did. Instead of, "You just have to wait like everyone else, I'm all alone", how about stepping up and making a general statement to the line like, "Folks, I'm alone here...I'm doing my best to get another agent out here...bear with me; we sure apologize for this inconvenience". No one would have dared say a word.....from that point, we'd have said, "yep, she's really trying". Instead, she alienated every passenger in line.

Many times, Agents have no training in the proper way to respond to a customer. Maybe not the way that says, "I'm the agent, and I'm right", but a way to shut down a situation before it starts.

I don't care how much an agent deals with on a daily basis. There is NEVER an instance where being rude to a group of customers who have done nothing wrong, becomes an inalienable right.

Anyway, preaching done. I'm just very excited that a topic I started generated this much discussion!!!

This is slightly off topic, but does anybody besides me ever think it's faster sometimes to go in the regular coach line than the perferred line. It seems that pax in the first class line are more likely to have more time consuming problems than the other line.

Yesterday in BWI they had 5 agents in coach and one first/preffered. Someone who got in the coach line at the same time I got in the first line, with 30 persons in front of them, arrived at their agent the same time I did. Like the story above, there seemed to be 3 or 4 agents doing thumb twidlling while we waited. My thought is if it takes the same amount of time in line, then it feels better waiting in the coach line that moves faster than it does waiting in the first line that moves at the pace that snow melts.

I understand what you are saying. I don't think that it was the right thing for the agent to respond that way. I don't even think it's an issue of training. But yes, as it has been said there is no reason for an employee to be left on their own without support. Without knowing her frame of mind I can't say whether she was just incompetent, aggrevated, or acting in response to something that could've happened 20 minutes prior (e.g., some other crazy circumstance that had already pushed her buttons, so to speak).

It will forever blow my mind that companies spend millions (or billions) of dollars on developing business only to have it jeopardized by putting $8 an hour employees in place to interface with the customer. Someone that doesn't care, doesn't understand the whole picture, and who will move on to another job before long is just a detriment to the company.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pitflyer:
Nature vs nurture?

Are agents in Philly a PITA because they were born that way...

OR

Are they PITAs because of working in the pressure cookers that is Philly, which USAirways hopelessly continues to overschedule and delays continue to plague?

I guess that's the real question. The end result is any frequent US flier does their best to avoid Philly, whoever's fault it might be.

(I don't know how most discussions about bad USAirways experiences always end up with us talking about Philly http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )</font>

Now that it is impossible for me to get a direct flight out of BWI to anywhere I am forced to pick the hub I want to connect from, and PHL is the worst. Between the ignorant gate agents who just don't care, the gate screeners who take joy in pulling US 1's and 2's out of line for a "random check", and the elite pax who will lunge for the gate ahead of the folks with the little kids who really need a head start.

PIT and CLT any day.

for the record, i've been flying us almost weekly for nearly five years, and do not think philly is any worse than other airports. yes, pit and clt are definitely better, but phl is no worse than boston and in my experience, much better than bwi.

yes, there are bad people at phl but there are some real gems too--and phlflyer there is nothing inherently problematic with the city itself.

as noted above, the main problems in philly have to do with the facility, overscheduling, and the like.

my worst experiences with us in fact have been at stations with less experienced staff -- sea, sfo, lax and of course, cdg.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kv99:
...phlflyer there is nothing inherently problematic with the city itself.

as noted above, the main problems in philly have to do with the facility, overscheduling, and the like..</font>

No doubt. However as a born and bred Philadelphian that has been fortunate enough to travel and reside away from here, I feel justified in my statements about Philadelphia. Customer service here is not the saccharin friendliness one might get in other places. I'm painting with broad strokes here, but stereotypes are founded in reality.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">...my worst experiences with us in fact have been at stations with less experienced staff -- sea, sfo, lax and of course, cdg</font>

Actually to hold a position in those west coast stations an employee needs upwards of 25 years with the company (at least for full time). I know someone with 24 years that still can't transfer back home to SAN since they're too junior.

Paris, well, that's another story. Although I think understanding the French way of doing things helps. Again, I'm speaking very generally.

phlflyer -- interesting that you need more experience to work on the west coast.
the seattle staff in particular seem to be completely clueless.

Yes, Philly *does* have the worst sportsfans in the country. Any worse, and they'd be English sportsfans. I've been to one Flyers-Caps game in my life, and there were two fights within four rows of my seat. After a close call that went against the Flyers, Philly Fan two rows up decided to share his entire beer with the referee. Unfortunately, we were about 100 feet from the ice and his beer only covered the first 5 to 10 feet. Needless to say, I left the arena smelling wonderfully that evening.

As for USAir and PHL, I avoid it at all costs. Mainly because the place itself is a dump, and if I get delayed (which I always seem to do), I'd rather get delayed at PIT or CLT than PHL.

As for smaller airports, I always found the agents at MCI and DCA to be very competent. I even got to know the ones at MCI pretty well after 50 or 60 departures from there. They were very friendly and good at their jobs, and they were openly unhappy when upper management told them that they had to play hardball with all customers a year or so ago.

That sure has not been my experience in SEA. Most of these folks are ex PSA, and have been there a long time. They are very good. The lead agent, Stan, may be the best in the system, although since 9/11, he has opted for nights.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by deelmakur:
That sure has not been my experience in SEA. Most of these folks are ex PSA, and have been there a long time. They are very good.</font>

Agreed. Delores at SEA is also wonderful.

The few times I've been through SEA-TAC the agents have been great as well.

I love this story. The us vs. them is a bust. If 'they' defeat 'us' there won't be a 'them.'

I had mixed experiences at PHL. I went through PHL for 4 Europe trips last year & a couple of transcons. I try to be nice & polite. I even suggest solutions to problems that come up. Most of the time, the agents are appreciative of my suggesting alternative solutions. I had one or two rude agents. I just let them do their thing & have the club sort it out. Most of the time, everything goes well.

I have had a couple of tickets issued at LAX. The agents are great there. I took a bump last Christmas season & although it took a long time to get tickets reissued, etc., the agent was very nice & accomodating. On my bump, I wanted to leave one or two days later because I could work a day of overtime (to fund more trips! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif); was able to reschedule to a less busy time & they put me in F. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I've had excellent experiences (save once) with the West Coast agents. In fact, on a recent PIT-SFO-PIT turn, the agent in SFO immediately recognized what to do with my US20 upgrade, whereas the agent in PIT blindly asked me for certs for 5 minutes (despite the UG method and type and number noted in the PNR, etc). Amazing.

RE: calling the state police--if I had this happen, I'd cheerfully tell the agent to have at it. Assuming that nobody phyically or verbally abused the agent, I'd wait for the trooper to arrive and explain the situation. Quite honestly, I would not forsee a problem with a levelheaded lawman in this situation. Crap like that, is, quite frankly, unnacceptable. I'd have taken it one step further tho: I'd have demanded access to the US station manager and taken the gripe up directly.

Having said that, all bets are off if you harass somebody verbally or physically.


------------------
Saving the world, one clue at a time.

i guess my experience with west coast agents is isolated.

i used to fly to seattle twice a month in 98/99/00 and had amazing things happen there. they would routinely ask me for upgrade certs as a chairmans', ask me for change fees when there was no change made (or when i'd already paid it), not board my special meals (nothing to do with the usair staff in sea of course but with catering), and in general screw things up. they were always very friendly and seemed to care, but just didn't seem to know what was going on.
just my experience!

I have made trips in and out of SEA 10 to 12 times a year for ten years, and have been CP since the category was created. Never had an experience even close to that. Only thing I can think of is that during the period from May to October, when service is increased, they have traditionally added extra agents(presumably part time), but those rarely work the Preferred position at the counter.

I read this topic with amazement; not that I am surprised by the appearance of PHL as the focus of rude agents but after 14 years here I still can't believe that most posts reflect my first experience at the airport, i.e, where a couple of skycaps rudely turned away when I asked for directions to the taxi stand. I arrived here from Phoenix, a post-grad student and quickly learned that after living in several US cities and also abroad for a three year period, Phila. is unrivaled in the rude and crude department. Of course the sports "fans" have just reinforced that image on a spectacular national level.

PHLFlyer, can you share your thoughts on what if anything US can do to improve PHL? Why doesn't the Southern Hospitality attitude stick?

BTW- I am aware of how much better folk are treated in other airports, but then again, I grew up in the South AND I since I am a Chairman's Preferred I really get better treatment than most.

Boy you're going to ask USAirways to change how Philadelphians act???? If Siegel can do that then I predict he'll make USAirways the largest carrier in the earth http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

naah, I KNOW Siegel can't change Philadelphians!... but I was curious about what US has tried to do to improve upon the PHL US employees' attitudes. Maybe send us some PIT employees?! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif