OK - so I'm a lousy domestic flyer who earned CP the hard way - tons of short haul segments AND tons of miles... tho those of you reading here are aware my job changed and I earned basically NO miles last year and am losing said status.. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

BUT - I know next to nothing about the ins and outs of international travel, upgrades policies, etc.. On my recent trip to LGW, there were at least 9 empty Envoy seats on both the trip over and the return. Why did those go empty? Presumably, there had to be someone w/ at least lower level elite status on board... do they just never do upgrades on international travel w/out certs?

My understanding is you either need an SWU or cash in miles. I believe the rules have just changed re: using mileage for upgrades. Used to be 10K and only from Y and B fares. Now you can also redeem 20K and upgrade cheaper fares but when the new SWU's issue in March (we hope!) V class won't be upgradeable at all.

I just flew MAN-PHL on Thursday and the back section of the Airbus Envoy was completely empty and the crew was using it for a rest area. There were even a few seats open in rows 2 through 4, maybe 2 out of 18. Load factor was very light in coach as well.

I think the bottom line is: we only get 2 SWU's a year and until very recently you couldn't upgrade discounted coach with miles.

I think there are multiple reasons.
1) it's off peak
2) most people have used their SWU
3) most don't the new upgrade rules
4) there may not have been many elites on board.

In reference to #4. I went CLT-LGW last July. I had been waitlisted for Envoy although there were 10 seats available. There were 3 of us on the waiting list. They would only let me upgrade at the gate. I was there 3 hrs early and I was talking to another gate agent. She looked up the load on the flight to see if I would most likely clear. She said that there was only 1 elite in coach - besides the three of us on the waiting list. I also thought that was unusual - especially when some domestic flights are packed with elites. So your premise, and mine, that there must be other elites on board may be incorrect.

Another interesting side fact. If there was a challenge going on and everyone on board signed up for it, ALL passengers could have been an elite after their roundtrip or any transatlantic roundtrip. This is due to a roundtrip to the UK is over 6,250. Then the seats wouldn't go empty. Think of it - there were x days of challenges times x transatlantic flights times x passengers = way too many SWUs.

svpii-

Noone has answered your implied question - operational upgrades are basically non-existent unless coach gets oversold. And I have been on an oversold coach flight with empty seats up front where they were asking for volunteers, and not upgrading.

That's bizarre - but the empty seats on my flights certainly bear it out...

Operational UG: Yes does happen. CDG-PIT recently flying their 767 which BTW I prefer in terms of the seat comfort in F, oversold Y got UG at the T1 gate and a "Thank you for being Gold". On a different note I recently got stranded in CDG because of my error (wrong dep. date) and got a seat on next day A330 in Envoy (waitlist w/SW) without paying the $150 fee and one more "Thank you for being Gold". I love the French USAir staff, very professional!

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check it out : The Airline First and Business Class Service Reviews web site at
http://www.stormloader.com/havane/sleepersintroduction.html

havane: have things changed at CDG? My experiences there have always been that the ticket and gate agents are rude and not very knowlegable about the Dividend Miles programme, especially when it comes to upgrading. I posted a trip report about 18 months ago, but it got archived into the old FlyerTalk...

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that there are courteous people over there working for US. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gardener:
My understanding is you either need an SWU or cash in miles. I believe the rules have just changed re: using mileage for upgrades. Used to be 10K and only from Y and B fares. Now you can also redeem 20K and upgrade cheaper fares.</font>

The 10k for Y (or J to First) is unchanged. Previously, the 20k award was used for B and C (C=discount Envoy); those now cost only 10k. The 20k award is valid on Q and up.