Passed through PIT this afternoon and saw that smoking will be banned in all US Airways Clubs as of August 1. Two exceptions: the big clubs at CLT and PHL. I, for one, am NOT happy with this development. I'm all for separate ventilated rooms as in DCA, CLT and PHL but think an outright ban is ridiculous as I've noted a lot of smokers in the Clubs over the years. Can anybody enlighten me as to the reason for this change?
USAirGreg
Jul 21, 01, 5:08 pm
Yea, the reason is some bonehead decided that smokers are killing everyone...Ticks me off too..it is plain BS if you ask me... My club renewal is up next month...bye bye clubs, and hello Bars. It is cheaper for me to give up 1.00 at the bars in PIT, PHL, or CLT and to give them 200.00 for club membership...plus I can walk outside
Seth
Jul 21, 01, 5:39 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
Yea, the reason is some bonehead decided that smokers are killing everyone...Ticks me off too..it is plain BS if you ask me... My club renewal is up next month...bye bye clubs, and hello Bars. It is cheaper for me to give up 1.00 at the bars in PIT, PHL, or CLT and to give them 200.00 for club membership...plus I can walk outside</font>
Tobacco abuse is the number one cause of preventable death and illness in the United States. One out of three people who smoke DIE prematurely because they smoke. It has been PROVEN that people exposed to second hand smoke, this includes employees that are exposed at lounges, bars, etc, are at higher risk for heart disease, lung cancer, asthma and numerous other conditions. You do not have to smoke, but others do have to breath.
The only way to prevent exposure to second hand smoke is to have a completely seperate, outside-ventilated room. This is expensive and often times cost-prohibited. In addition, numerous lawsuits have been filed in recent years by employees that are ill due to working in these areas.
Most airline clubs do have bans on smoking. Good to see US finally getting on the bandwagon.
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What do you mean I can't charge my heart bypass to my Visa? I need the MILES!!!
FlyerAl
Jul 22, 01, 1:09 am
I also welcome this decision. Smoking isn't permitted on board, nor in many airport terminals - so why is it such an outrage to ban smoking in an airport lounge? The US Airways Club isn't a smokers club. If one has a craving for a cigarette, why can't they smoke outside before checking-in or while connecting?
davistev
Jul 22, 01, 12:11 pm
"Clean Air For All"
USAirGreg
Jul 22, 01, 12:55 pm
Perhaps we should ban Drinks as well.... Don't know too many people who have gone out and killed someone because they did not have a cig? Lets see...Drunk Driving IS the number one cause of deaths in the United States... They should count how many people have caused problems on planes and terminals who are drunk vers the people who have caused problems on planes and terminals who smoke cigs?
Everyone likes to claim second hand smoke kills, but face it, if you are so worried about second hand smoke, then you should wear a face mask 24 hours a day to prevent you from inhailing all the toxic fumes from planes, cars, factories, etc...
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyerAl:
I also welcome this decision. Smoking isn't permitted on board, nor in many airport terminals - so why is it such an outrage to ban smoking in an airport lounge? The US Airways Club isn't a smokers club. If one has a craving for a cigarette, why can't they smoke outside before checking-in or while connecting?</font>
I would have no problem going outside, but its a little tough doing so during a 45 minute connection in PIT. Certainly ONE of the 3 PIT clubs could allow smoking, especially since one can smoke in the bars inside the terminal, which now looks like my best option. As for the contention that the Clubs are not smoking clubs, I think many of us joined in large part to have a quiet and comfortable place to smoke, not for the free pretzels.
Seth
Jul 22, 01, 1:57 pm
...Drunk Driving IS the number one cause of deaths in the United States...
Your information is incorrect. Drunk Driving is NOT the number one cause of death in the United States. I would direct you to the Morbidity and Mortality weekly reports published by the CDC in Atlanta. They can be accessed in the CDC web site. Actually, the number of alcohol related deaths has decreased over the last decade.
I personally feel a drunk driver who kills someone should be charged with murder, not manslaughter, but that is another story.
Alcohol abuse is a big problem, one that needs to be addressed. We also know that 1-2 drinks a day, especially of red wine, can be protective for the cardiovascular system. Bartenders and F/A's actually have a legal mandate to stop serving customers/passengers who appear intoxicated or impaired by alcohol, although few do this.
In terms of second hand smoke, it is very dangerous. Air pollution in general is a big problem, especially to those with asthma and other conditions that lead to pulmonary compromise. That DOES NOT change the fact that second hand smoke is dangerous. Again you do not have to smoke, but others do have to breath. If you have every watched some die as result of tobacco abuse or persistant exposure to it, which I have many times, you would have a better understanding of this.
People who smoke have every right to smoke; however, that right ends at the tip of my nose when I have to breath.
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What do you mean I can't charge my heart bypass to my Visa? I need the MILES!!!
BizJet
Jul 22, 01, 3:30 pm
I for one applaud this move, and I feel that some letters that I have written have now finally been answered. Seth has outlined his opinions on second-hand smoke and I largely agree, but for me there is one reason that smoking should be banned specific to the US Airways Clubs. Lets face it, the clubs can get crowded at flying rush hour, and even more packed when their are delays, back-ups, and/or cancellations. My most recent experience was at DCA, where at Friday evening there aren't enough seats or work areas to accomodate everyone comfortably; it's much, much worse when everyone's flight is delayed two hours. There was absolutely no where to sit in the main lounge area, bar area, etc. The smoking area in the back was empty, with just several people all spread out, puffing away. If that area was designated non-smoking, there would be more room to accomodate everyone, but with that area designated as smoking, smokers can spread out, have plenty of room, while those of us who choose not to smoke don't. You'll probably say, if I wanted to sit there so badly why didn't I just put up with the smoke? Like it or not, my opinion is: if you want to smoke and kill yourself, that's fine, but I'm not going to let you kill me either. A little extreme? Well maybe too many of my relatives are prematurely dead because of smoking.
Just my opinion.
JS
Jul 22, 01, 3:33 pm
If indoor smoking should be banned for health reasons, then automobiles in cities should also be banned, using the same reasoning.
I don't drive, but I still have to get around, and that requires me to cross the street. Car crashes are the number one killer of young people, and can kill and injure people of any age.
There's a big difference between dying at age 16 compared to dying at age 68. Everyone has to die eventually, but the anti-smoking zealots make it sound like death at any age is a bad thing, and age at death is irrelevant.
Smoking isn't necessary, and neither is driving in a city. So why are smoking bans so common and car-free cities non-existant? "Majority rules"!
More people don't smoke than do smoke, so all air has to be "clean" from tobacco. But since more people are too lazy to use mass transit than there are environmentally responsible people, everyone has to breathe tailpipe exhaust and accept the risk of getting hit by a car.
So, if you're in favor of an indoor smoking ban, I think a better argument is one of majority rule than health. IMHO, majority rule should be limited to the legislature.
USAirGreg
Jul 22, 01, 4:10 pm
I'm just not sure why everyone thinks it is ok to ban all smokers rights. We've put up with no smoking on flight (ok, I can live with that), We've put up w/no smoking in the work place (ok, I can live with that), we've put up w/no smoking in a public place (ok, I can live with that), we've put up w/no smoking in goverment facilities (ok, I can live with that), but it seems to be going just a little to far when there is no smoking anywhere.
I don't puff my smoke in peoples faces (one exception), nor do I come into their homes and smoke cigarettes, but a space, that is well ventalated (in the club) is not much to ask for....
As for someone who is upset that the smokers are taking room away from the non-smokers is just plain stupid. If you don't like it that you have to be a little crowded, then Why don't you just go outside and relax, sprawl out, and be content (Just like smokers have to do). It demonstrates how stupid it is when a non-smoker complains that a smokers lounge is taking up too much room from the non smokers, so that non-smoker can spread their 5 pieces of luggage all over the place, and might I add, it is the same luggage they try to drag onboard, suck up all the luggage bins.
Smokers do have rights.
I love Europe, no one in your face like typical americans to say "stop smoking". If fact, I was at the airport in Madrid, and smoking in line (Why would I smoke in line? Because I can). An American lady said "excuse me, but stop smoking".. I stated "Baby, this ain't America, if you don't like it, get over it", drew a nice long puff and blew it in her face"...it felt really good!
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote.
I have never said that smokers do not have the right to smoke; however, non-smokers have the right not to breath that crap. It is actually good for me that people smoke. A large number of my patients are suffering from smoking-related illnesses. Tobacco-caused diseases let me pay for all my trips!
(hope sarcasm is noted)
But let us face facts, there will be NO agreement on this. As long as people are addicted to tobacco, this arguement will continue.
ps. When I lived in Chicago I always took public transportation http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.
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What do you mean I can't charge my heart bypass to my Visa? I need the MILES!!!
ClueByFour
Jul 22, 01, 6:32 pm
Look at it this way:
I have not joined the US Club system, yet I somehow end up with many freebie passes. I generally have been using these to enter clubs in airports that don't allow smoking without a large hike outside.
Now, I just won't be using these passes at all (or considering spending the $$ to join). NBD, however, I'll bet many paying members probably joined just for the access to a smoking area. US just pissed these folks off, and won't be seeing that revenue next year.
A smoking US get together, anyone?
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Saving the world, one clue at a time.
[This message has been edited by ClueByFour (edited 07-22-2001).]
svpii
Jul 22, 01, 6:35 pm
I'm the Robert Downey, Jr. of smokers. I've quit 5 times for a period of a year .. I was commited to the core each and every time. I do wish we could rid ourselves of the religious war aspects of this debate and recognize that however offensive it is to many of you, it remains a legal option. I daresay that whatever small amount of smoke may escape from the enclosed smoker's lounge in a USAir club is not endangering anyone.
It is not my responsibility to protect you, any more than it is your responsibility to protect me. In this country, you have public opinion and legal momentum clearly in your corner. Is that not enought? I am quite socially and personally responsive to non-smoker's sensitivities to the fact of smoking. But a sanctimonous position that a non-smoker has some moral superiority when assessing comparative rights really makes me grind my teeth.
I still want to quit. I hope I quit again - but until I do I am considerate of others, within my legal rights, and not in need of lectures about why I've made the decisions I have. What I am not is less intelligent, less moral, nor less deserving of human sensitivity than non-smokers.
idomoneus
Jul 22, 01, 7:12 pm
I have no objection to smokers smoking in a room seperated from the rest of the club/terminal and with a special air handling system. But smokers do not have a right to injure those around them with their cigarette smoke any more than they would have the right to injure them with a knife or gun. Second-hand smoke *is* harmful and *should* be banned in those places where it can harm nonsmokers. If the club in a particular airport is too small to reasonably be able to install a seperate smoking room with its own air handling system, then smoking should not be permitted there. Your need to get a fix does not give you a right to harm others.
As for the person who blew smoke in the face of the woman in Madrid-- she may not have been in America, but your action was rude and inappropriate.
USAirGreg
Jul 22, 01, 9:54 pm
"As for the person who blew smoke in the face of the woman in Madrid-- she may not have been in America, but your action was rude and inappropriate."
That was me. Really? Rude? No, what I found rude was her telling me to quit smoking. I did not know her, she was not traveling with me, she was not my mother, nor my wife. She should have minded her own business. I was not blowing smoke in her face, and in fact, I was being very considerate that I was holding the cig away from her, and blowing the smoke in the other direction (away from people). What was rude was her need to throw her opinion in my direction. I did not ask or require her opinion, nor did I care what her opinion was. She is no longer in America, therefore if smoking is allowed in an airport outside the US, the non-smokers better wise up to the fact that there will be smokers around them, and they'll have to learn how to deal with it. After all I did not comment on her appearance of she had eaten way too many donuts in her lifetime..that would have been rude, but I kept that comment to myself.
This debate will never end, and I agree.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote.
I'm quite confused over the thinking in airports anymore...the clubs are going non-smoking but the bars in the airport let you smoke if you make a purchase, typically two feet from the concourses.
I just did a run this weekend PIT-BWI-SFO-PIT and just walked outside at BWI. It was kind of a pain in the you know what but it was okay. I always stay in non-smoking rooms and usually have the first one when I'm going downstairs in the morning for a cup of coffee (too lazy to make it in the room) I try to limit myself when I'm traveling, but having one at a club during a layover is something that I will miss.
Yes, I'm mad that the US clubs are going non-smoking, especially in PIT where there are THREE clubs. At least make one of them smoking!
I'm not sure if I'll reup at the club next year, I'll probably just start using the free passes that I give away to friends now. My smoking coworker bought a lifetime membership a few years ago and he is livid! His normal routine when arriving home at PIT was to stop in the club, have a nicotine fix, call home, and by that time the luggage is downstairs. He called US and they pretty much told him "tough"
There's a thread from earlier in the year about smoking in the clubs:
Take care and if you see a tall, skinny guy outside having a 'butt, say hi to a fellow FT!
PHL
Jul 23, 01, 12:05 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
I'm just not sure why everyone thinks it is ok to ban all smokers rights. We've put up with no smoking on flight (ok, I can live with that), We've put up w/no smoking in the work place (ok, I can live with that), we've put up w/no smoking in a public place (ok, I can live with that), we've put up w/no smoking in goverment facilities (ok, I can live with that), but it seems to be going just a little to far when there is no smoking anywhere.
I was at the airport in Madrid, and smoking in line (Why would I smoke in line? Because I can). An American lady said "excuse me, but stop smoking".. I stated "Baby, this ain't America, if you don't like it, get over it", drew a nice long puff and blew it in her face"...it felt really good!
</font>
You must be a real class act, USAirGreg. Do you really feel the non-smokers are out to 'get' you?? It's a simple reason - your smoke is killing us. We also have to go home and take a shower and wash our clothes because they STINK from it all.
Smoke in your home, in your yard, in your car. We don't care. As soon as you get into a public place, forget it. Go get a job with Philip Morris. Their offices are completely smoke-filled and there are NO smoke free areas. It was the worst 2 day contract job I ever had.
Why should USAirways, or any business for that matter, cater to people with this filthy habit that adversely affects others around them? We all welcome you to drop your $200 club membership and go to the one or two airport bars that allow smoking. Cram yourself in there with the rest of them, shoulder to shoulder, and smoke to your heart's content. I hope your medical insurance is good, because you'll surely be needing some kind of treatment down the road.
freqflyer2001
Jul 23, 01, 1:57 pm
Apparently, everyone has a strong opinion on this subject...
I just want to add that I am not a smoker, do not like to be around smoke, and think that people who do smoke should make every effort to quit for their own health. However, I do not think that smokers should be banished from every place that another human may go near. At the Clubs, I have never noticed a "smoky" smell in the air unless I was in the smoking area. Some of the Clubs, like CLT, have a completely separate room for it. I have no problem with this.
I do not think it is unreasonable that areas be made available for those who smoke. There will always be the extreme cases where the non-smoking areas are packed and the smoking areas are only sporadically filled (although I have never seen this, myself).
I don't understand the attitude that smokers somehow deserve to be ostracized. It's a legal product that adults can freely purchase. I think that the Clubs should make an effort, where possible, to retain separate smoking facilities. In these areas, the smoke can be well-ventilated to the outside, and thus does not interfere with non-smokers.
On a side note, I wish people were half as concerned about other air pollutants as they are about occasionally inhaling cigarette smoke. The world would be a much cleaner and healtier place.
chexfan
Jul 23, 01, 2:04 pm
I'm only assuming that the LAX and SFO clubs have been non-smoking now for a while, correct?
USAirGreg
Jul 23, 01, 4:08 pm
SFO and LAX have been (as long as I know) non-smoking. Wish they would change it, but hey.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote.
"You must be a real class act, USAirGreg. Do you really feel the non-smokers are out to 'get' you?? It's a simple reason - your smoke is killing us. We also have to go home and take a shower and wash our clothes because they STINK from it all.
Smoke in your home, in your yard, in your car. We don't care. As soon as you get into a public place, forget it. Go get a job with Philip Morris. Their offices are completely smoke-filled and there are NO smoke free areas. It was the worst 2 day contract job I ever had.
Why should USAirways, or any business for that matter, cater to people with this filthy habit that adversely affects others around them? We all welcome you to drop your $200 club membership and go to the one or two airport bars that allow smoking. Cram yourself in there with the rest of them, shoulder to shoulder, and smoke to your heart's content. I hope your medical insurance is good, because you'll surely be needing some kind of treatment down the road. "
Every non-smoker needs to step back and look at the big picture. Everyone likes to think that second hand smoke kills people, and I'm sure it does not help, but pollution from cars, factories, electric plants, planes, trucks, etc all contribute to cancer and cancer related deaths. According to the Non-Smokers, ONLY and ONLY cigarettes are killing people. This has been a media hype for a long time. I smoke according to the rules and regulations of the laws and businesses. If I can't smoke, then I deal with it, why can't the non-smokers deal with a smoker on occassion? Becuase they don't want to. They want to shove their opinion down people's throats.
As far a real class act, I am. No need to get into that, the discussion is not about how classy someone is, it is about smoking in the clubs/airports, etc - so lets try to focus on the subject at hand.
You feel it is ok for me to cram myself into a small space, but you want all the room you can get...it does not go both ways.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
SFO and LAX have been (as long as I know) non-smoking. Wish they would change it, but hey.
</font>
Well, it's a little matter of California law, IIRC. For example, no smoking in restaurants. I imagine that the ban extends to airline clubs.
Now as the arguments pro and con have been done to death, let's just let this topic die.
USAirGreg
Jul 23, 01, 9:46 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CLTFlyer:
Well, it's a little matter of California law, IIRC. For example, no smoking in restaurants. I imagine that the ban extends to airline clubs.
Now as the arguments pro and con have been done to death, let's just let this topic die. </font>
Yes, but I've been out at the bars on Calif...and instead of offering you a ashtray, they just call it a candy dish http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Yes, I know it is a law out there, but it has only been a law for a few years now, so I was kind of referring to when it was not a law.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
USAirGreg replies to my post that:
"I was not blowing smoke in her face..."
but in his previous post he wrote:
"I...drew a nice long puff and blew it in her face"...it felt really good!"
There seems to be a contradiction here. I agree you have a right to smoke and I agree that when in Spain do as the Spanish do, but you *did* say you blew smoke in her face and I think that was rude and, frankly, childish.
USAirGreg
Jul 24, 01, 2:07 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by idomoneus:
USAirGreg replies to my post that:
"I was not blowing smoke in her face..."
but in his previous post he wrote:
"I...drew a nice long puff and blew it in her face"...it felt really good!"
There seems to be a contradiction here. I agree you have a right to smoke and I agree that when in Spain do as the Spanish do, but you *did* say you blew smoke in her face and I think that was rude and, frankly, childish.
</font>
No it seems you can't follow the conversation very well, the I stated I was not blowing smoke in her face until she opened up her pie-hole and blew her offensive opinions on me. Until she spewed her opinions toward me, I was minding my own business.
Seems to me, that people are allowed to open their mouth in my face and spread germs, which is harmful to my health, there should be a law for that http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ideasmilie.gif
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by freqflyer2001:
Apparently, everyone has a strong opinion on this subject...
I just want to add that I am not a smoker, do not like to be around smoke, and think that people who do smoke should make every effort to quit for their own health. However, I do not think that smokers should be banished from every place that another human may go near. At the Clubs, I have never noticed a "smoky" smell in the air unless I was in the smoking area. Some of the Clubs, like CLT, have a completely separate room for it. I have no problem with this.
I do not think it is unreasonable that areas be made available for those who smoke. There will always be the extreme cases where the non-smoking areas are packed and the smoking areas are only sporadically filled (although I have never seen this, myself).
I don't understand the attitude that smokers somehow deserve to be ostracized. It's a legal product that adults can freely purchase. I think that the Clubs should make an effort, where possible, to retain separate smoking facilities. In these areas, the smoke can be well-ventilated to the outside, and thus does not interfere with non-smokers.
On a side note, I wish people were half as concerned about other air pollutants as they are about occasionally inhaling cigarette smoke. The world would be a much cleaner and healtier place.</font>
Nice post. If all non-smokers took your reasonable tone, we'd all find a way to get along.
Redhead
Jul 24, 01, 8:52 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JS:
There's a big difference between dying at age 16 compared to dying at age 68. Everyone has to die eventually, but the anti-smoking zealots make it sound like death at any age is a bad thing, and age at death is irrelevant.</font>
I am an ashmatic. If I am confronted with second-hand smoke, especially if I have a cold or recovering from one, it can send me to the hospital. Second-hand smoke kills - and not just after years of exposure.
It is also shown that children of smokers have more respirtory problems, more learning disabilities and higher rates of depression.
I also applaud [B] Seth [B] and others for there well thought out and complete arguements in favour of the smoke ban.
Smoker's do have rights, but not to send me to the hospital.
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I wish I were 1,000 miles away
pitflyer
Jul 24, 01, 10:27 am
I felt left out, since I'm involved in almost every other USAirways thread and this has gone so long without my great intellect. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
That said, I like the way the American club is setup in ORD. For many reasons, but one of them is that they have a separate smoking section that's well ventilated. I'd really hate if one of the clubs in PIT went all smoking because I use the different clubs depending on what gate I'm leaving from, and I wouldn't use a smoking club.
I think it would make financial sense for USAirways to invest and complete a smoking section at least in the center club, since obviously smokers are people too (I guess! <grin> ) who pay money for club services, etc. Especially in an airport like PIT where its nearly impossible to get outside easily.
Or just add some fish tanks like Atlanta. You can get high just by walking past those places (WHAT are they smoking in there?)
PHL
Jul 24, 01, 11:07 am
Seems this post will never die....
USAirGreg - I made the 'class act' comment because of your response to the woman in line behind you. Blowing smoke in her face was not the most mature way to handle the situation. Perhaps you could have suggested she stay a few feet further back, kindly pointing out that you were both in an area that permits smoking.
If I'm in a place that allows smoking and somone's smoke is bothering me, I deal with it. The most common occurance of this is in a bar (CA excluded). I'm delighted, however, when I enter a smoke free zone.
You are correct that there are other harmful products that cause cancer which we, as a society, have created. That's why we're also taking steps to eliminate or reduce our exposure. I refer you to asbestos, lead paint and auto emissions. Since cigarettes have absolutely no utilitarian value to anyone (like power plants and cars), they are an easy target by all non-smoking advocates.
USAirGreg
Jul 24, 01, 5:27 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PHL:
Seems this post will never die....
USAirGreg - I made the 'class act' comment because of your response to the woman in line behind you. Blowing smoke in her face was not the most mature way to handle the situation. Perhaps you could have suggested she stay a few feet further back, kindly pointing out that you were both in an area that permits smoking. </font>
PHL: Before you read, this entire post is really not totally a rebut to your post, but a rebut more in general to everyone.....
Agree'd, I should have not done it, but I was making a point to her. I wanted her to understand, she is not in America, and while she is not in America, she should not try to put US Laws on me... and I'm sure she got the idea.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">If I'm in a place that allows smoking and somone's smoke is bothering me, I deal with it. The most common occurance of this is in a bar (CA excluded). I'm delighted, however, when I enter a smoke free zone.</font>
Thats funny, I'm delighted when I can walk into a non-smoke free zone and smoke. All I ask for is a place that I can go and smoke. If smoking kills me, so be it. Why can't I have a nice place that I can go? Why should I be banished outside? Why do non-smokers think that smokers should be made to sweat in the summer, freeze in the winter, etc? I never said that we should mix smoking and non-smoking in the same room, but what is wrong with a small well ventalited room like in CLT or PHL where I can smoke in comfort?
Why is it when we do have a seperate room, the non-smokers complain our area is too big? Nothing is just quite enough until we are pushed out the door.
Just because I smoke, does not mean I'm the scum of the earth or should be treated like a 2nd class citizen (we already have enough discrimination against women, blacks, jewish, gays, asians, AH...Lets face it, if you are not white, male, and republican in the US, you ain't nothing).
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
You are correct that there are other harmful products that cause cancer which we, as a society, have created. That's why we're also taking steps to eliminate or reduce our exposure. I refer you to asbestos, lead paint and auto emissions. Since cigarettes have absolutely no utilitarian value to anyone (like power plants and cars), they are an easy target by all non-smoking advocates.</font>
Well cars really don't have any utilitarian vaule, nor does power plants. We could all walk - God gave us legs, feet, etc. We could use natural sunlight or solar power - not a real good example. Cigs. do provide millions of dollars in tax revenue, jobs, etc. -- so they really are on the same par http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
This will be my final word on this entire thread and subject. All I ask is to leave me alone in public where I am allowed to smoke. If you want to seperate smoking and non-smoking by use of rooms, ok, that is fine w/me, but don't take them away after you've gotten me comfortable using them. Don't complain that smoking is killing you when i'm in a seperate room that is ventilated so much, i freeze in a long sleeve shirt. Don't complain my smoking is killing you when i'm outside and you walk by me. Don't complain to me when I'm in an office, airport, or vehicle where I'm smoking, and I'm am allowed to smoke, and I got their first. If i'm in a public place that is non-smoking, and i'm smoking, then you may complain, if you are in my smoking section, or i'm in a public place and I'm allowed to smoke, then don't.
Now it is time for me to go have a cigarette.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
I fully support smokers' rights, so long as they do not harm others. I think that having designated smoking rooms with air handling systems is a good idea, where such is economically feasible. I strongly believe that everyone has the right to commit suicide, whether it is by shooting themself or smoking a pack a day (I do not, however, believe that my tax dollars should go to their medical care.)
As for USAirGreg, what I objected to was him blowing smoke in her face because of her comment, not him telling her she wasn't in America. I think telling her that she wasn't in America would be reasonable; blowing smoke in her face was not.
USAirGreg has now admitted that he shouldn't have done that, so I consider that issue settled.
ClueByFour
Jul 24, 01, 10:31 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pitflyer:
Or just add some fish tanks like Atlanta. You can get high just by walking past those places (WHAT are they smoking in there?)
</font>
I think it is tobacco, however, I am a smoker, and even I don't really have to light up in the sin-bins at ATL to get my fix. I actually prefer the setup at BNA, where they have sin-bins, but they are so heavily ventilated that they suck small children thru the vent grids in the ceiling if they (the small children) are not properly lashed to the floor.
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Saving the world, one clue at a time.
Gregg
Jul 24, 01, 10:59 pm
Anyone who has not passed through Atlanta will know they always have a free, albeit spartan, lounge to smoke up a storm - those rooms with glass fronts to them where we can watch every smoke during our walks through the terminals. You do get a free benefit by going there - no need to buy cigarettes.
Why not have Phillip Morris sponsored clubs? The Marlboro Club? If it was priced right, I'll bet you could get a fair amount of frequent flyers to sign up for something like it.
PHL
Jul 25, 01, 6:33 am
It would have sucked to be on this flight:
A USAirways flight from PIT to LAX was diverted to Phoenix because THREE people started smoking during flight and did NOT extinguish them when asked. The story was that they were beligerant and resistant to any requests. The captain high tailed it for the nearest airport(Phoenix), called the feds and landed. The 3 offenders were met by agents as soon as the plane landed.
USAirGreg
Jul 25, 01, 7:05 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by idomoneus:
...USAirGreg has now admitted that he shouldn't have done that, so I consider that issue settled...</font>
Don't misunderstand me, I would do it again in a NY second. I don't really need anyones forgiveness, nor do I need for anyone to considered this settled. I don't need anyone to tell me how to conduct myself in public, or how I interact in public, that is my own business.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PHL:
It would have sucked to be on this flight:
A USAirways flight from PIT to LAX was diverted to Phoenix because THREE people started smoking during flight and did NOT extinguish them when asked. The story was that they were beligerant and resistant to any requests. The captain high tailed it for the nearest airport(Phoenix), called the feds and landed. The 3 offenders were met by agents as soon as the plane landed.</font>
Rightly so. Smoking is illegal on an airplane and I am in total agreement that you should be arrested for smoking on an airplane. When did this happen?
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
[This message has been edited by USAirGreg (edited 07-25-2001).]
chexfan
Jul 25, 01, 7:56 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
I don't need anyone to tell me how to conduct myself in public, or how I interact in public, that is my own business.</font>and this reflects greatly on one's self...
chexfan chirp-in time, I am not a cigarette smoker. I do not like cigarette smoke. But if I go out to a bar, I know I will most likely be unable to wear those clothes again until they get washed (unless I am in the great state of California). Fine, fair enough, I do not have a problem with that. I know what I am getting into and making the choice myself.
But there have been times when my seatmate has sat down beside me and wreaked of smoke. As if the 1 hour flight was going to deprive them of their fix for the entire day. Mmmm... ya gotta love the smell of someone who has just emerged from one of those Smoking Lounges in ATL! IMHO this is just as rude as having horrible B.O.
If I do not know you, I'll keep comments to myself. However, if you are a friend, you will be mocked, laughed in front of and pointed at! I care about my friends and their health and it is proven that cigarette smoking is unhealthy.
Please just realise that the banning and "lockdown" of smoking is done in the best interest of society as a whole and not done as a persoanl measure against individual smokers.
[This message has been edited by chexfan (edited 07-25-2001).]
USAirGreg
Jul 25, 01, 8:55 am
I stated that I was not going to follow up to this forum, but I guess I liked "or maybe I was just too stupid to comprehend what I typed". But, here goes....
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
chexfan chirp-in time, I am not a cigarette smoker. I do not like cigarette smoke. But if I go out to a bar, I know I will most likely be unable to wear those clothes again until they get washed (unless I am in the great state of California). Fine, fair enough, I do not have a problem with that. I know what I am getting into and making the choice myself.
But there have been times when my seatmate has sat down beside me and wreaked of smoke. As if the 1 hour flight was going to deprive them of their fix for the entire day. Mmmm... ya gotta love the smell of someone who has just emerged from one of those Smoking Lounges in ATL! IMHO this is just as rude as having horrible B.O. [/B]</font>
Well, bad BO is just as bad. Do I ban people from being in public because of bad BO? Nope. I'm sorry that you had to smell smoke for 1.5 hours or 5 hours...request a seat change, or I'd say sue that person because the odor was killing you.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
If I do not know you, I'll keep comments to myself. However, if you are a friend, you will be mocked, laughed in front of and pointed at! I care about my friends and their health and it is proven that cigarette smoking is unhealthy.
</font>
Cig. smoking is my own choice. As long as I smoke, I will smoke anywhere and everywhere I want, as long as it is premitted. My friends (whom I pick and choose carefully) take me for who I am, not who they think I should be. I never stated that cig smoking is healthy or everyone should do it, in fact I discourage young people from starting, however, I don't like the idea of people who don't smoke telling me that I should not smoke. I love it when someones says, that is unhealthy for you...duh...wow, do you think I just now learned that? NOT! I for one don't like over-weight people. I think it is gross and nasty. I think it should be outlawed. I am sometimes forced to sit next to someone who has had one too many boxes of donuts in their lifetime. Do I say anything them? Nope. I don't say anything, as it is not my biz to tell them how to eat. That is the difference between right-winged non-smokers and myself. If someone wants to do something, go for it, I don't care. Now you might say, how can someone over weight affect my health? Well, perhaps we are in an emergency situation, and they get stuck in the chair or in the door, or in the window..and I can't get out, then I'm dead. -it could happen. If non-smokers are so worried about smoke, then we should also ban everything else. Alchol, Cars, Planes, Trucks, Sweet-N-Low, eggs, butter, sugar, coffee, MSG, bleech, etc -- They all kill and they all endanger my life... Should I complain because my neighboor is spreading lime on his yard, which carried by the wind, I could inhale it and die (in about 40 years)? Not really.... the smog and pollution and the "pretend green-house effect" will kill me first.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Please just realise that the banning and "lockdown" of smoking is done in the best interest of society as a whole and not done as a persoanl measure against individual smokers.
</font>
Please just realize that banning and lock down of smokers is only the first step. Once this happens it will be something else, and something else. You are passionate about not smoking and good for you, but for me to be passionate about smoking -- I'm just bad, evil, the scum of the earth..how could I ever do such a thing (yet we kind of elect a prez who drinks and drives, and does other little fun stuff - but that is ok).
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
I gotta side with the smokers on this one, even though I have asthma and smoking really irritates me. If you're going to ban smoking, I think you should ban alcohol. I don't use either, so since I don't need them or like them, no one should have them. Ban them both.
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Of course, that's stupid logic, which is why banning smoking (in society) doesn't make sense. Taking this argument the other way (the right to demolish your own body) you get into legalized drugs .. but that's a whole another argument!
In any case, since the Clubs are a private enterprise they can do whatever the heck they want.
BTW, my sister works for 'The Truth' campaign against teenage smoking. She flies all around the country on the tobacco company's bill (and I guess USAirGreg and other smoker's money's). We have some very vocal arguments about that organization http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
chexfan
Jul 25, 01, 10:26 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pitflyer:
BTW, my sister works for 'The Truth' campaign against teenage smoking.</font>Even my friends who smoke enjoy their commercials!
geo1004
Jul 25, 01, 10:28 am
Stand next to a man drinking a gin & tonic. That action has no medical affect on you what so ever.
Stand next to a man smoking a cigarette. That action affects you in a detrimental way.
Drink all you want. Smoke all you want. It's your choice. I've done/do both. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Has it not occured to anyone that the reason smoking is being banned from the US Airways Clubs has nothing to do with smoker's rights and everything to do with customer demand and customer preference? Clearly some beancounter's survey showed that xx% of potential or exsisting Club members would rather have all non-smoking clubs. End of story... give the majority of the customers what he/she wants and make more $$$. There is NO political agenda here. It's all market driven. Simply because someone falls into a minority opinion catagory does not mean they are automatically being discriminated against.
USAirGreg
Jul 25, 01, 11:44 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1004:
Stand next to a man drinking a gin & tonic. That action has no medical affect on you what so ever.</font>
Really? So I guess the man who is drunk and pulls out a gun and starts blowing away people has no medical affect on you?
And before you say it, not too many people who are smoking a cig just go crazy, but people who are drunk do. Drinking makes people drunk (duh), and therefore they get the "courage" to do things they normally would not too.
Or the woman who is drunk, weights 500lbs, and falls on top of you has no medical affect on you?
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Stand next to a man smoking a cigarette. That action affects you in a detrimental way.
Drink all you want. Smoke all you want. It's your choice. I've done/do both. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Has it not occured to anyone that the reason smoking is being banned from the US Airways Clubs has nothing to do with smoker's rights and everything to do with customer demand and customer preference? Clearly some beancounter's survey showed that xx% of potential or exsisting Club members would rather have all non-smoking clubs. End of story... give the majority of the customers what he/she wants and make more $$$. There is NO political agenda here. It's all market driven. Simply because someone falls into a minority opinion catagory does not mean they are automatically being discriminated against.</font>
They are only cutting out smoking in facilities that do not have a seperate smoking facility in them already. Placed like GSO, where you have to go to the bar area (if you'd call that dinky closet) a club and smoke. Places like PHL (where B, C, and D meet) and CLT (Concourse C - Waving to my favorite Club Person Bridgette)will continue to have smoking, but in sections.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
Really? So I guess the man who is drunk and pulls out a gun and starts blowing away people has no medical affect on you? And before you say it, not too many people who are smoking a cig just go crazy, but people who are drunk do.</font>To draw a comparison between the dangers of second hand smoke and the fear of someone drinking a gin and tonic, getting drunk, and going on a shooting rampage was definitely the funniest thing I have read all week!
geo1004
Jul 25, 01, 12:10 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Really? So I guess the man who is drunk and pulls out a gun and starts blowing away people has no medical affect on you?
</font>
Your logic is addling.
Just how long did it take them to convince you the world was round? Or are you still unsure?
pitflyer
Jul 25, 01, 2:31 pm
chexieboy, I think everyone agrees the commercials are effective. It's the means and method.
And geo, while I agree there's a difference, I personally would rather not sit near EITHER an excessive drinker or an excessive smoker... I had the misfortune of sitting next to many 'one-too-many' drinkers on flights, even those at 7am, to know its just as bad as sitting next to a smoker. They don't need to shoot anybody IMHO to be a pain in the a$$.
Not to mention when you go out to dinner, and the 'drinks like fish' wants to split the bill evenly with you even though you just had water and they had $40 of wine.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Of course, Flyertalk company excluded. I had fun at the last PIT mini-meet even though they spent more on drinks than on food http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
IN ANY CASE, I agree its just a business decision. This whole self-righteous discrimination stuff is B/S. If USAirways sees its club membership rates drop off and associate it with smoking, then I'm sure they'll find a way to add a smoking section back.
Reminds me how some casinos in Las Vegas are going non-smoking. It's an experiment, and if they gain more business than they lose by it, they'll probably stick with it. I wonder how that's going..
USAirGreg
Jul 26, 01, 6:28 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1004:
Your logic is addling.
Just how long did it take them to convince you the world was round? Or are you still unsure?</font>
Then your in good company. Last time I checked, it was round, although I know there use to be rumors it was flat years and year ago, I'm sure you can fill me in on the details of that.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
Originally posted by USAirGreg:
Really? So I guess the man who is drunk and pulls out a gun and starts blowing away people has no medical affect on you? And before you say it, not too many people who are smoking a cig just go crazy, but people who are drunk do.</font>To draw a comparison between the dangers of second hand smoke and the fear of someone drinking a gin and tonic, getting drunk, and going on a shooting rampage was definitely the funniest thing I have read all week!
Thanks, I aim to please
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
Ah... Now I know the kind of CPs on US to which one of their FAs was referring.
USAirGreg, your analogy to alcohol is a ridiculous one - drug-addicted ranting, really. A drink one imbibes is imbibed by that one - not the people around him. And I thought the NYC schools had a poor reputation for education... (thank you chexfan for pointing the error in logic as well)
Thank you chexfan and geo1004 also for pointing out one of the most ridiculous quotes of all: "I don't need anyone to tell me how to conduct myself in public, or how I interact in public, that is my own business." Apparently he does (or perhaps did in childhood).
Curious: USAirGreg refers to the "pretend green-house effect", sounding like the "prez who drinks and drives, and does other little fun stuff - but that is ok." ?
And finally: "According to the Non-Smokers, ONLY and ONLY cigarettes are killing people." (Where is the face graphic with an incredulous look and one raised eyebrow? Drug-addicted, delusional ranting, I tell you.)
USAirGreg
Jul 26, 01, 9:23 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LGA:
Ah... Now I know the kind of CPs on US to which one of their FAs was referring.
USAirGreg, your analogy to alcohol is a ridiculous one - drug-addicted ranting, really. A drink one imbibes is imbibed by that one - not the people around him. And I thought the NYC schools had a poor reputation for education... (thank you chexfan for pointing the error in logic as well)</font>
Careful who to whom you accuse of being a drug addict. That is nothing more than slander and false unproven accusation.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Thank you chexfan and geo1004 also for pointing out one of the most ridiculous quotes of all: "I don't need anyone to tell me how to conduct myself in public, or how I interact in public, that is my own business." Apparently he does (or perhaps did in childhood).</font>
When you pay my bills, and/or become my parents and/or spouse, you may at that point tell me who to conduct myself, until then, you should really keep your flames, and personal attacks to yourself.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Curious: USAirGreg refers to the "pretend green-house effect", sounding like the "prez who drinks and drives, and does other little fun stuff - but that is ok." ?
And finally: "According to the Non-Smokers, ONLY and ONLY cigarettes are killing people." (Where is the face graphic with an incredulous look and one raised eyebrow? Drug-addicted, delusional ranting, I tell you.)</font>
Nope, not at all..shows you exactly what this country is about. Everyone likes to moan and groan about cigs are killing us, and killing you, etc..yet, the same people who do this, go out and drink and drive, smoke dope, use other drugs and think that is ok. After all, you elected a prez that drinks and drives, his daughter drinks and drives, and has been caught doing other little recreational things, but after all, that is ok.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
[This message has been edited by USAirGreg (edited 07-27-2001).]
dingo
Jul 28, 01, 1:32 pm
PHL, it would have sucked to be on that flight...agreed. All the more reason to allow smoking in separate sections at the clubs.
Seth, smoking kills...good point but not a news flash. The thread was complaining about banning smoking in the clubs. The clubs that I've been in that allow it, US, UA and AA all have had separate rooms for smoking. I'm not saying ALL..no indeed. I'm saying the ones I've been in: CLT, ORD, DFW and so on.
LGA
Aug 3, 01, 11:15 am
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
Careful who [sic] to whom you accuse of being a drug addict. That is nothing more than slander and false unproven accusation.
</font>
So are you now attempting to dispute the fact that tobacco is an addictive substance?
"Everyone likes to moan and groan about cigs are killing us, and killing you, etc..yet, the same people who do this, go out and drink and drive, smoke dope, use other drugs and think that is ok."
And this is to prove you're not ranting?
"After all, you elected a prez that drinks and drives..."
Not I.
Seth
Aug 3, 01, 9:50 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LGA:
So are you now attempting to dispute the fact that tobacco is an addictive substance?
"Everyone likes to moan and groan about cigs are killing us, and killing you, etc..yet, the same people who do this, go out and drink and drive, smoke dope, use other drugs and think that is ok."
And this is to prove you're not ranting?
"After all, you elected a prez that drinks and drives..."
Not I.</font>
This thread is tired, and needs to die a fast and painless death. However, since it has lurched back to life, I would like to point out that "tobacco abuse disorder" is an accepted medical diagnosis in the ICD-9 code manual. This the "bible" for the proper coding of medical illness and problems. All medical problems must be coded in order to be recognized by insurance companies, including Medicare and Medicaid, and to receive compensation if addressed or treated during the office visit. So, if you smokers ever see the code "305.1" or "305.11" on your billing sheet or insurance form, it means "tobacco abuse disorder".
All my smoking patients, since I address quiting at EVERY office visit, receive this code.
Just an FYI. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
ps....alcohol abuse and drug abuse have seperate codes
(edited to add the ps)
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What do you mean I can't charge my heart bypass to my Visa? I need the MILES!!!
[This message has been edited by Seth (edited 08-03-2001).]
USAirGreg
Aug 3, 01, 10:29 pm
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LGA:
So are you now attempting to dispute the fact that tobacco is an addictive substance?
"Everyone likes to moan and groan about cigs are killing us, and killing you, etc..yet, the same people who do this, go out and drink and drive, smoke dope, use other drugs and think that is ok."
And this is to prove you're not ranting?
"After all, you elected a prez that drinks and drives..."
Not I.</font>
I agree..this thread was run into the ground, run over, backed up, and run over again. However, I must respond (it is my nature).....
I never stated or said that tobacco use is or is not adictive. You might wish to read the thread a little more carefully.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
I never stated or said that tobacco use is or is not adictive [sic]. You might wish to read the thread a little more carefully.
</font>
"Careful who [sic] to [sic] whom you accuse of being a drug addict..." is what you typed and what I read. I read your implication to be that the user is not addicted; otherwise, what could your opposition be? The only other implication I could read into it was a threat.
Finally (hopefully), a person who thinks his behavior in public is only his business and has no bearing on the public around him isn't exactly a sign of a healthy psyche; I don't think the possibility of a substance addiction having an effect like this is outlandish.