It seems lately that the FA's are having a hard time remembering their speech. I could give the safety demo but some of them act like it is their first time.

But last week one of the FA's started to make the usual announcement about coming around to pick up the cups. But instead it came out that she was going to walk through the cattle. That got quite a chuckle from everyone.

That's pretty funny. Even I must admit that I make animal sounds, say for instance when I get off the monorail and up the escalator in Hartsfield, ATL. However, there is a little truth in everything. I hope that the flight attendent does not treat his/her passengers in a manner consistent with those comments.

On a recent A-330 flight from PHL-SJU, the flight attendant staff looked like it had just graduated HIGH SCHOOL, let alone attendant school. They were extremely inexperienced.

My favorite gaffe among many by this crew was the mixing of safety instructions with unncessary information.

While on a 40-minute ground stop, in the middle of an active runway, several passengers needed to use the facilities. ONe of the young FA's used the intercom to say, "Ladies and Gentelemen, we are on an active runway. Passengers must be seated in case we have to evacuate the aircraft".

Yes, sometimes you really do feel like cattle. Or mindless zombies. One day I looked around at all the business travellers and we all seemed to have that same terminal stare.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jms8090:
That's pretty funny. Even I must admit that I make animal sounds, say for instance when I get off the monorail and up the escalator in Hartsfield, ATL. However, there is a little truth in everything. I hope that the flight attendent does not treat his/her passengers in a manner consistent with those comments.</font>

Been seeing a number of young kids, lately, acting as lead attendants, particularly on larger Airbus equipment. I believe the senior F/A's are not happy with the service equipment, and are puttng the kids up front, while they handle simpler tasks in the main cabin.

I agree with deelmakur. I have noticed what I assume are more senior attendents serve in coach and younger attendents with more garbled announcements up front as they loose their place on the mantra. I have noticed that the more crowded FC is, especially on short flights, the more the senior FA seem to go back. Conversely, when in FC with few in the cabin, the more senior FA seem to be in front.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by deelmakur:
Been seeing a number of young kids, lately, acting as lead attendants, particularly on larger Airbus equipment. I believe the senior F/A's are not happy with the service equipment, and are puttng the kids up front, while they handle simpler tasks in the main cabin.</font>

Hey, I prefer to see the cuter ones up front. Let the battle axes deal with the masses.

ITRADE...I like your style.

itrade and deelmakur,

"battle axes"?? So should any FA over 30 be put out to pasture? You guys must be the same ones that hire only sweet young things to work the Club lounges. :P

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lennon

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ITRADE:
Hey, I prefer to see the cuter ones up front.</font>I always pray for the Kappas from UC-Boulder! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
Originally posted by ITRADE:
Hey, I prefer to see the cuter ones up front.</font>I always pray for the Kappas from UC-Boulder! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif



Nahhh....I'll take a UVA Kappa or Theta over anything the Left coast has to offer http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ITRADE:
Nahhh....I'll take a UVA Kappa or Theta over anything the Left coast has to offer http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>

Personally, I'd rather skip the sorority girls altogether. Especially the snotty Wahoos. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

lennon...go easy. We're only kidding. They're primarily there for your safety. I want the biggest strongest ones they have, in case of emergency. I listen to those announcements, you know.

PS: I have it on good authority that DOC is actually a 60 year old former Mohawk stew, now retired in Buffalo. Want the number?

chexfan knows of what he speaks.

The flight crews are there only for your safty. They are not there to make sure your drinks are filled, your pillow is fluffed, or your ego is stroked.

I can only think of very very few flights that I've been on that the flight crews were not very nice. (International is the exception, I've run into a few that should be running a prison).

Do you realize, that when they take your coat, offer you a pre-board drink, etc they are not getting paid? Until that door closes, everything that they do is on their own time!

A few of them forget their lines, but lets get real here... Look are our current President? He is "Yale" graduated and he can't make one speech w/o putting his foot in his mouth... Thus Age, Education, or amount of training has nothing to do with people who make a mistake...

Another point: I find that the older (as you call them battle axes) are nicer than the younger ones. They are well seasoned, know exactly how the service should go, etc. I especially find the old Piedmont employees the nicest.

I watch the video or the demo each time, read the card (even though I know the layout of the fokker or A330 like the back of my hand) each time I board their or anyone elses aircrafts...In case of an emergency, I'll be out of that plane...you all can read your papers, talk on your cell phones, or close your eyes...but I'll still be alive.

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"We are diming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott

[QUOTE]Originally posted by USAirGreg:
[B]The flight crews are there only for your safty. They are not there to make sure your drinks are filled, your pillow is fluffed, or your ego is stroked.

Does anyone on this board not know where the closest emergeny exit is? The airlines used to be a service business.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
The flight crews are there only for your safty. </font>


Recognizing that the flight crew does play a significant role in the safe operation of a flight, to say the are only there for safety is a crock. As long as airlines (not just US, but all) tout their premium services (domestic First, Envoy, and Intl. First etc.) as premium services, customers have a right to expect that level of service.

From US Airways description of domestic FC:

"You'll enjoy preferred attention, a professional environment with wide, comfortable seats, distinctive menu choices, and premium wines, beers and liquors."


Clearly there is more to the FA's job than just the safety issue. They may not be there solely to serve meals and drinks but that is certainly ONE of the reasons they are there. Simply because safety is another part of the FA's job is inconsequential and not related to their other duties on board the aircraft.

Clearly the safe operation of the aircraft comes first but to use the safety issue as an excuse for poor or inadiquate service is, well, inexcusable.

"Clearly there is more to the FA's job than just the safety issue. They may not be there solely to serve meals and drinks but that is certainly ONE of the reasons they are there. Simply because safety is another part of the FA's job is inconsequential and not related to their other duties on board the aircraft.

Clearly the safe operation of the aircraft comes first but to use the safety issue as an excuse for poor or inadiquate service is, well, inexcusable."

In fact, they are there for your safety only. If it were up to the airline, they would be there just for the service, but the FAA requires them to be there for your safty. Drinks, Pillows, Food, etc is really a time filler...otherwise, they'd be hiring a wait staff to fill your needs.

My better half is an FA (for another airline) and they are there for your safety, not for your drinks.

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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott

geo1004's entire point is that it is NOT an either/or thing. You are saying that a flight attendant is there only for safety, which is not true. An integral part of their job is to provide service to airline customers. Look at any airlines human resource website's description for the flight attendant position, and you will find that among the duties are both safety and service. Perhaps what you are trying to say is that if the FAA did not require flight attendants for safety, they wouldn't be there. For certain airlines, I'd agree.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:

Do you realize, that when they take your coat, offer you a pre-board drink, etc they are not getting paid? Until that door closes, everything that they do is on their own time!</font>

If a FA were to perform pre-flight duties and then go home, I would agree. But that doesn't happen. FA's get a paycheck every month (or week or whatever), and the check amount is the only thing that matters (along with number of hours worked in terms of quality of life). Exactly how that amount is calculated is irrelevant outside of labor negotiations.

For example, the following two situations are identical:

1) Work 20 flights and 80 block hours a month; pay rate is $22.50/hour. Pay is $1,800 a month.

2) Work 20 flights and 90 actual hours a month (80 block hours plus 1/2 hour pre-flight per flight); pay rate is $20.00/hour. Pay is $1,800 a month.

Labor negotiations is where the decision between 1) and 2) is made, all else being equal. The airline doesn't care whether it pays $20/hour including pre-departure or $22.50/hour for block hours only. That's up to the union to decide.

Naturally, if the pay starts at pushback, senior FA's will bid out juniors for long flights in order to increase $/actual hour. But that's the union's making, not the airline.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
...and they are there for your safety, not for your drinks.
</font>

Gee, how nice of the airlines to pay FA's a salary for performing only those tasks mandated by the FAA. I guess all those FA's got together and decided they would serve drinks and meals and peanuts just because once the pre-board safety announcements were over they had noithing else to do.

BTW, apparently US Airways does not share the opinion that FA's are only there for safety. The first line of the Job Description for Flight Attendants makes that perfectly clear:

"Job Description

The flight attendant position involves performing and assisting with both safety and customer service-related duties. "


Perhaps of more interest is that the job qualifications require the FA's be able to move some heavy objects...

Again from US Airways:

"You must be able to operate mechanical equipment, aircraft doors and window exits, evacuation slides, life rafts and fire extinguishers. The approximate weight of items handled by flights attendants include:

Beverage/Meal Cart: 150-250 pounds

Liquor Kit: 17-25 pounds

Emergency Window Exit: up to 55 pounds "


I am soooo glad the FAA mandates the 25 pound Liquor Kit be included with the safety items. I'd really hate to be without it if we had to do a over-water ditching and ended up in a liferaft.


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

[This message has been edited by geo1004 (edited 07-24-2001).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1004:
I am soooo glad the FAA mandates the 25 pound Liquor Kit be included with the safety items.</font>It has saved me a couple of times!

I'll drink to that.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:

In fact, they are there for your safety only. If it were up to the airline, they would be there just for the service, but the FAA requires them to be there for your safty. Drinks, Pillows, Food, etc is really a time filler...otherwise, they'd be hiring a wait staff to fill your needs.

My better half is an FA (for another airline) and they are there for your safety, not for your drinks.
</font>

You know, I've heard this over and over and over again. I want to know, exactly, what an FA is going to do for my safety if the wings come off the aircraft at FL35. Flap his/her arms?

While I agree that the FAA mandates a body for every X pax for safety reasons, they (FAs) are fundamentally there for service reasons, with safety being a subset thereof. To suggest otherwise is slightly nuts.

If the FAs were truly there for safety reasons, we would get more than the lip service paid to the safety demo, more attention to those actually seated in exit rows, etc. Further, I've yet to hear an educated explanation from an FA about the nuances of why some electronic devices are allowed, some are not, some are not allowed during takeoff and landing, why GPS is a no-no despite the fact that it does not really transmit anything, etc. Safety?

I find a vocal minority of FAs who will scream about safety only when the quality of service is questioned. What does this tell you?

I'd suggest to you (quite cynically) that the airlines employ FAs in a safety capacity only because the FAA requires it. That's not knocking FAs. It is, however, how it is.

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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JS:
If a FA were to perform pre-flight duties and then go home, I would agree. But that doesn't happen. FA's get a paycheck every month (or week or whatever), and the check amount is the only thing that matters (along with number of hours worked in terms of quality of life). Exactly how that amount is calculated is irrelevant outside of labor negotiations.

For example, the following two situations are identical:

1) Work 20 flights and 80 block hours a month; pay rate is $22.50/hour. Pay is $1,800 a month.

2) Work 20 flights and 90 actual hours a month (80 block hours plus 1/2 hour pre-flight per flight); pay rate is $20.00/hour. Pay is $1,800 a month.

Labor negotiations is where the decision between 1) and 2) is made, all else being equal. The airline doesn't care whether it pays $20/hour including pre-departure or $22.50/hour for block hours only. That's up to the union to decide.

Naturally, if the pay starts at pushback, senior FA's will bid out juniors for long flights in order to increase $/actual hour. But that's the union's making, not the airline.</font>

You can slice and dice it anyway you desire. They get paid for Flight time. That does not begin until the door closes. So you can call it what you want, or slice it anyway you would like, but no pay for pre-departure drinks, coats/jackets, etc. They are paid by the hour, not by salary, therefore, until that door closes, they are NOT paid for that time.

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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
You know, I've heard this over and over and over again. I want to know, exactly, what an FA is going to do for my safety if the wings come off the aircraft at FL35. Flap his/her arms? </font>

Obviously, there are some things F/A or Pilots can't do, and one is flap their arms to make the plane continue to fly. But perhaps if the plane lands as safe as possible w/o those wings, they just might save your butt. Do you exactly know how to open up the upper deck of a 747-400 correctly and deploy the chute? Do you know how to open up the tail cone of a 727, and if there is no power, you know exactly what lever to depress and open that up? No, you don't, but the F/A does. Do you know which Fire extinguisher to use and where it is to put out a fire in the lavatory, the galley? No, you don't. Do you know exactly what you should remove before jumping on a slide? Do you know how to direct passangers to the correct door/exit? And for god sakes did you not see Karen Black in Airport 77? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">While I agree that the FAA mandates a body for every X pax for safety reasons, they (FAs) are fundamentally there for service reasons, with safety being a subset thereof. To suggest otherwise is slightly nuts.</font>

No, to think that the F/A is there to serve you food only and safety is just a slight concern or a spin off of feeding peanuts to people is very nuts (no pun intended). Do you know exactly why you tray table should be in the upright position?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">If the FAs were truly there for safety reasons, we would get more than the lip service paid to the safety demo, more attention to those actually seated in exit rows, etc. Further, I've yet to hear an educated explanation from an FA about the nuances of why some electronic devices are allowed, some are not, some are not allowed during takeoff and landing, why GPS is a no-no despite the fact that it does not really transmit anything, etc. Safety? </font>

The F/A can not make you watch the videos, they can not make you look at the info card, or anything else. They can make you sit your seat during taxi, takeoff, landing, etc...but I'd say the F/A's are under the conclusion, safety is also personal responsibility too... Kind of like kids in school..it is up to the parent to help the kid behave, learn, study, it is not the school's full responsibility.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I find a vocal minority of FAs who will scream about safety only when the quality of service is questioned. What does this tell you? </font>

This tells me that only a minority of F/A's are doing their job 100%. They are in a no win situation. If the service is not 100% up to standards of everyone in the cabin, the passangers will complain. If they force passangers to be safe, the passangers will complain. If they forget safty, the they are FINED and the FAA will complain.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I'd suggest to you (quite cynically) that the airlines employ FAs in a safety capacity only because the FAA requires it. That's not knocking FAs. It is, however, how it is. </font>

I think I stated that they were there for safety because of FAA rules. If it were up to the airlines, we'd be seeing 18 y/o kids, walking around, taking drinks, serving peanuts, and requesting a tip upon departure of the plane.



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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Do you know exactly what you should remove before jumping on a slide? </font>


Assuming the FA has done their job and brought along the 25 lb. Liquor Cart, I'm guessing the top of the mini-bottle?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1004:

Assuming the FA has done their job and brought along the 25 lb. Liquor Cart, I'm guessing the top of the mini-bottle?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>


Are you crazy? You'll spill the liquor and that is alchol abuse http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif You need the caps on the bottles upon jumping..then you can have a drink in your favorite lounge.


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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
You can slice and dice it anyway you desire. They get paid for Flight time. That does not begin until the door closes. So you can call it what you want, or slice it anyway you would like, but no pay for pre-departure drinks, coats/jackets, etc. They are paid by the hour, not by salary, therefore, until that door closes, they are NOT paid for that time.

</font>

It's irrelevant. Let me try this one:

Suppose I make 25 cents a minute, eight hours a day, five days a week. That's $600 a week.

Now, suppose I sign a new contract whereby I make $7.50 a minute instead. However, I only get paid for the first two minutes of each hour (:00 to :02). I am not allowed to leave at any time except my lunch hour (excluded from pay calculations in both cases).

Does this mean that if the phone rings at 10:26, I can say "Sorry, I'm not getting paid for this phone call. Call back at 11:00 or 11:01"? Of course not! I still make the same $600 a week.


If the FA's union wants FA's to be paid for pre-departure duties, the airline will have no problem with that whatsoever during the next round of labor negotiations. The company couldn't care less about how pay is calculated. All they do is calculate the total cost over the term of the contract. The union does the same thing, and the fight is over how much that total should be (union wants the cost to be higher, and the company wants it lower.)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JS:
It's irrelevant.</font>

You are right, it sure is.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Let me try this one:

Suppose I make 25 cents a minute, eight hours a day, five days a week. That's $600 a week.

Now, suppose I sign a new contract whereby I make $7.50 a minute instead. However, I only get paid for the first two minutes of each hour (:00 to :02). I am not allowed to leave at any time except my lunch hour (excluded from pay calculations in both cases).

Does this mean that if the phone rings at 10:26, I can say "Sorry, I'm not getting paid for this phone call. Call back at 11:00 or 11:01"? Of course not! I still make the same $600 a week. </font>

Yes, but would you be so happy to answer the phone for the next 58 mins, knowing that you are NOT getting paid at all for these phone calls, or the longer you work, the less you get paid? 99% of America who gets paid by the hour, do not work on a sliding scale. That is, if you are making 7.50 per hour, most American don't get paid for 2 hours of work, then everything after that is free, or broken up as your very strange compensation package above.

If you make 7.50 per hour, you make 7.50 per hour, for every hour you work, and more if you work overtime, etc. What gets diluted is Salary persons such as myself. I get "X" amount per week. I am expected to work "X" amount of hours a week. If I work more, then the company benefits, if I work less, I benefit, but the pay stays the same. F/A's are paid by the hour. So if an F/A gets say 21.00 per hour, then when that door closes, the clock starts. Before that door closes, they are getting paid NOTHING, NADA, ZIP. I can't seem to figure out why that is so hard to understand.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
If the FA's union wants FA's to be paid for pre-departure duties, the airline will have no problem with that whatsoever during the next round of labor negotiations. The company couldn't care less about how pay is calculated. All they do is calculate the total cost over the term of the contract. The union does the same thing, and the fight is over how much that total should be (union wants the cost to be higher, and the company wants it lower.)</font>

Actually, the company does care how pay is done. It is to the advantage to pay only for flight hours. So if you can have your people do free work for you..all the better... This means my spouse is paid for the following:
Typical Day:
Flight from Nash to Base - NO PAY
Sit at home base for 2 hours - NO PAY
Begin Preboard - NO PAY
Close door - PAY
Open Door - NO PAY
Sit for 2 hours in city until next departure - NO PAY
Begin Preboard - NO PAY
Close Door/Fly - PAY
Open Door - NO PAY
etc.

Kind of a simplified format, but you get the idea. Nothing like going to work for 12 hours and getting paid for 8, and putting up with 800 different people, from 4 different cities, all wanting food, drinks, pillows, blankets, etc, and then hearing unkind words that their service was not exactly 100% perfect.

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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott

[This message has been edited by USAirGreg (edited 07-24-2001).]

I can't seem to get my point across. I came up with an extreme example of getting paid $7.50 a minute but for only two minutes an hour to demonstrate that the pay is exactly the same as it was before, when it was 25 cents a minute for all minutes. It's still an eight hour day, 40 hour workweek, for $600 a week. Not one single thing changed -- nada! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I promise you, airlines could not give a rat's behind whether they pay FA's per available seat, per available seat-mile, per hour during cruise, or per millisecond 24 hours a day. Just like my example of 25 cents a minute vs. $7.50 a minute (i.e., $600/week no matter what), the same number of dollars are going to flow from the airline to the FA. The stockholders don't give a hoot either. Their earnings reports still have the same total number of dollars being spent on labor.

The only time it would make any difference is if the pay amount is defined independently (e.g., federal minimum wage). As long as the union and management have discretion over the $/hour figure and how hours are calculated, the final method chosen is totally meaningless as far as pay is concerned. Take $/hour and multiply by hours, and you get $ only. FA's don't get paid in hours, they get paid in dollars.

[This message has been edited by JS (edited 07-24-2001).]

USAir Greg, I'd encourage you to actually read what JS wrote. You have already decided that his point is wrong, so you gloss over your point and repeat yourself about how FA's don't get paid for preflight duties and how they have to put up with whiney comments and annoying requests all day. If you actually read what JS would say, you'll see that what he is saying makes sense. Then you'll realize what you responded with makes no sense, except to show that you didn't read or possibly were too stupid to comprehend it.

I'll repost it. Perhaps seeing it again will make you realize you should read it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Suppose I make 25 cents a minute, eight hours a day, five days a week. That's $600 a week.

Now, suppose I sign a new contract whereby I make $7.50 a minute instead. However, I only get paid for the first two minutes of each hour (:00 to :02). I am not allowed to leave at any time except my lunch hour (excluded from pay calculations in both cases).

Does this mean that if the phone rings at 10:26, I can say "Sorry, I'm not getting paid for this phone call. Call back at 11:00 or 11:01"? Of course not! I still make the same $600 a week.


If the FA's union wants FA's to be paid for pre-departure duties, the airline will have no problem with that whatsoever during the next round of labor negotiations. The company couldn't care less about how pay is calculated. All they do is calculate the total cost over the term of the contract. The union does the same thing, and the fight is over how much that total should be (union wants the cost to be higher, and the company wants it lower.)
</font>

USAirGreg was too busy smoking to read what JS wrote. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So was I, so that can't be the reason! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USAirGreg:
Do you exactly know how to open up the upper deck of a 747-400 correctly and deploy the chute? Do you know how to open up the tail cone of a 727, and if there is no power, you know exactly what lever to depress and open that up? No, you don't, but the F/A does. Do you know which Fire extinguisher to use and where it is to put out a fire in the lavatory, the galley? No, you don't. Do you know exactly what you should remove before jumping on a slide? Do you know how to direct passangers to the correct door/exit?
</font>

With the exception of the fire extinguishers on particular equipment (since I don't know if its on the card or in the manual or on a buildout by buildout basis), I'll probably follow the directions printed on the door, being extremely aware that the door may just fly out and take me with it (AA in Miami, anyone)? Not to be flippant about it (seriously)--on most aircraft used for passanger service in the last 3 decades or so, the door/chute directions are on the door, just in case something should happen to the FAs (hauling the 25lb booze cart, or otherwise).


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
No, to think that the F/A is there to serve you food only and safety is just a slight concern or a spin off of feeding peanuts to people is very nuts (no pun intended). Do you know exactly why you tray table should be in the upright position?
</font>

I'm not disputing that safety is a part of their job. To suggest that its the only reason they are there, however, is unrealistic (we'll call it flight mix, since you don't see the peanuts anymore, lest somebody 20 rows back be allergic). I'm guessing the tray table is locked for the same reason my old flight instructor had every **** thing in the plane strapped down when the student is landing; It might just hit somebody in the head http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

[QUOTE]

I think I stated that they were there for safety because of FAA rules. If it were up to the airlines, we'd be seeing 18 y/o kids, walking around, taking drinks, serving peanuts, and requesting a tip upon departure of the plane.

[QUOTE]

In some cases, you don't even get that from the service side. Having said that, I could take the same 18 y/o kids and teach them the safety drill, and have them ride the jumpseat. That does not happen, either. Not even on SWA http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

I agree with the poster in this thread that basically says that service is a part of the duties of the average everyday FA, and to suggest that safety is the only function is (argh) nuts. Having said that, I realize that safety should be the foremost concern; I just get annoyed when it is used by a crutch.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
I'm not disputing that safety is a part of their job. To suggest that its the only reason they are there, however, is unrealistic (we'll call it flight mix, since you don't see the peanuts anymore, lest somebody 20 rows back be allergic). I'm guessing the tray table is locked for the same reason my old flight instructor had every **** thing in the plane strapped down when the student is landing; It might just hit somebody in the head http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif. </font>

I'll see if I can dig out the directions to opening the top door of a 747-400. It is not easy, but it goes something like this:

Press a lever, slide some big thing towards the front of the aircraft, secure another lever, the press a few more, and bam, you are done.... would take an F/A - 5 seconds, would take an average passanger about 3 mins to read and figure it out. But hey, they are just there to fluff your pillow anyway.


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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JS:
I can't seem to get my point across. I came up with an extreme example of getting paid $7.50 a minute but for only two minutes an hour to demonstrate that the pay is exactly the same as it was before, when it was 25 cents a minute for all minutes. It's still an eight hour day, 40 hour workweek, for $600 a week. Not one single thing changed -- nada! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I promise you, airlines could not give a rat's behind whether they pay FA's per available seat, per available seat-mile, per hour during cruise, or per millisecond 24 hours a day. Just like my example of 25 cents a minute vs. $7.50 a minute (i.e., $600/week no matter what), the same number of dollars are going to flow from the airline to the FA. The stockholders don't give a hoot either. Their earnings reports still have the same total number of dollars being spent on labor.

The only time it would make any difference is if the pay amount is defined independently (e.g., federal minimum wage). As long as the union and management have discretion over the $/hour figure and how hours are calculated, the final method chosen is totally meaningless as far as pay is concerned. Take $/hour and multiply by hours, and you get $ only. FA's don't get paid in hours, they get paid in dollars.

[This message has been edited by JS (edited 07-24-2001).]</font>


So what I guess you are saying is, everyone should be paid nothing for any extra work? Any hourly employee should be just fine and dandy that if they work over, they should not get paid, just because it is just what they should do. I think you'd find it hard pressed to find many, if any, F/A that would agree to that. Any F/A's on this board agree with that, that it is ok that you should work w/o getting paid? I could pretty much bet that you would not work if you got paid by the hour, execpt the 1st 30 mins and the last 30 mins of your job..my suspecion is you'd not work as hard or at all during those 30 mins, because at that point you are making less money per hour. And you'd hate it even more if a customer (or passanger) conduct was holding that door open so that you got paid even less.

And unfort. you are wrong about the airlines not caring... If there are delays, problems, etc, they must pay the crew more money for those delays. If ATC keep the plane in the air in a holding pattern, or if storms divert the plane, or the ATC keeps the plane on the ground due to high AT, then they get paid more, or do you suggest that since the flight was only schedule 1.5 hours, but they sat on the ground for 3, and then flew 1.5 hours, they should only get paid 1.5 hours, cause it is the "nice" thing to do? Yeah, right!


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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott

[This message has been edited by USAirGreg (edited 07-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by USAirGreg (edited 07-25-2001).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BizJet:
USAir Greg, I'd encourage you to actually read what JS wrote. You have already decided that his point is wrong, so you gloss over your point and repeat yourself about how FA's don't get paid for preflight duties and how they have to put up with whiney comments and annoying requests all day. If you actually read what JS would say, you'll see that what he is saying makes sense.</font>

I did read what he stated. You DON'T seem to be able to understand what I wrote. I'll try to sum it up so that even you can understand:
Lets say you are making (for simplistic reasons) 1.00 per hour, and are required to work say 80 flight hours (now remember, this does not include ground time. Now here you are working for your 1.00 per hour. Passengers start to come on board your plane. They start throwing coats at you, want pillows, ask you to put their steamer trunk in the bin of an F100, ask for a copy of Playboy, ask for some peppermint snapps, a can of coconut milk, and then a nice electric blanket to cuddle up with. Now all the time you are dealing with these stupid requests, you are NOT getting paid for it. Would you be happy? Nope, you sure would not. You'd prob. be less concerned and less encouraged to provide most of that service. You would more than likley hand out bottled water, tell them the magazines are in the bins, not help with the luggage, and tell them blankets and pillows are in the bins. It is ONLY human nature. I'm not saying it is not their job, or in their job description to not do this, I was only stating a fact that "Did you realize"? Some how you and a few others took that as my reason for doing a poor job, when in fact I stated NOTHING like that...it was only an ASSUMPTION on your part.

Again, I'll state. There would not be very many people who would be happy knowning that if they were making 1.00 per hour and that first 1/2 hour and the last 1/2 hour you were NOT getting paid. They are paid BY-THE-HOUR, NOT paid BY-THE-HOUR-ON-A-SLIDING-SCALE.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Then you'll realize what you responded with makes no sense, except to show that you didn't read or possibly were too stupid to comprehend it.</font>

What I stated makes perfect sense. You want to rationalize for your own good, that if they don't just kiss your feet upon entry of the plane, it is because they are not getting paid... Again, for your benefit, I was stating a "Do you realize".

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">possibly were too stupid to comprehend it</font>

I object to your personal name calling and stating that I am not intelligent here. First you don't know me to know how intelligent I am (and yes, comprehension is based on intelligence). The use of the word stupid only shows me that you are unable to carry out a conversation in an adult manner. If you disagree with me, fine. If you don't like what I say, fine. If you don't understand what I'm trying to say, fine, but to begin a personal attack against me is nothing more than childish. (Talk about lack of intelligence)


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I'll repost it. Perhaps seeing it again will make you realize you should read it...</font>

Not required, since I have a PHD from MAJOR PRIVATE University, I think I am able to understand EVERY word that was written... or I guess they just gives out "STUPID" degrees...

Let me repost this so you can read it again, because you "possibly were too stupid to comprehend it"

My Original Posting stated: "Do you realize, that when they take your coat, offer you a pre-board drink, etc they are not getting paid? Until that door closes, everything that they do is on their own time!"

Hmmm...I'm not exactly sure where I stated anything about poor service in this statement.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">If the FA's union wants FA's to be paid for pre-departure duties, the airline will have no problem with that whatsoever during the next round of labor negotiations. The company couldn't care less about how pay is calculated. All they do is calculate the total cost over the term of the contract. The union does the same thing, and the fight is over how much that total should be (union wants the cost to be higher, and the company wants it lower.)
</font>

Agreed. Again, I never stated that I thought it was fair, or right, or wrong. If the F/A's want pay for predepatures, then it should be so stated in the contract. Again, I was only stating "Did you Realize". Geez, I need a cig http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I did not realize that the FT Board has so many perfect people. The whole discussion started out with people complaining that they were getting service that they felt like was perfect (or that was the underlying message). when really, the F/A messed up (they are human, not robots) and I think a complaint of that nature is not warranted. Now had the F/A threw a drink on you, dropped the plate of food on your head, hurled a bottle of water at you, etc, then that would be something to complain about, but because you got your meal last or she served the 1st class cabin out of order? Give me a break..that is nothing more than finding something to complain about.

I find that most 1st class passengers (esp. upgrades), are the people who complain the most. I fly a lot and on different airlines, and it is the same all over. People complain to the airline there was a delay (Yes, Delta or US made that big nasty storm in PHL so you would be delayed), if the food was not 100% perfect, or there was not a pillow for them. What I find even more distasteful is people who would complain that the F/A said "fasten your seat bolt" instead of "fasten your seat belt", or I'm sitting in 2A, and you served 2C first and then me, etc... Big whoop... The F/A is only human, try giving them a break. If this were a perfect world, we'd all be complaining that no one makes a mistake.
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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott




[This message has been edited by USAirGreg (edited 07-25-2001).]

Why can't the US board have their own basenji? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Discussions about how the FA's and the airlines have structured their pay system are silly. Leave it behind the closed doors of the union/airline management.



btw, I will be off this thread for a while. I have to go ask my boss why I don't get paid while I am driving to and from work each day.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
Why can't the US board have their own basenji? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif</font>

ruff, ruff http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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"We are dimming the cabin lights to enhance the beauty of our flight crew" - Actual Quote from USAirways F/A: CLT-BNA.

Chairmans: USAir, Gold: NWA, Diners, HH, Gold: Marriott