I’m starting to think that US is playing games with us to dilute the value of a SWU that is used for an Envoy flight. As we all have read, many Envoy upgrade requests are waitlisted and finally clear at the gate. I have no problem with J seats being left open for someone who will pay $4K+ for it – but let’s be reasonable. I have no expertise in yield management so please educate me if I am wrong.

I have a personal example and have read other similar posts. I am scheduled for a flight in less than a week. There are 17 Envoy seats left – so 17 have sold/upgraded. One week ago there were 18 available, so they are not selling like wildfire. There are about 7 on the waiting list. There are 9+ seats available in coach to be sold (ITN shows 9 in Y,B,M,K,H,Q,V – could be same seats). Why not leave 10 Envoy seats open for sale and/or possible operational reasons. Coach is not and will not be oversold, so there will not be a need to bump anyone up. The bottom line is some people could be upgraded now. If all 7 are not upgraded now, how about 5 or 3 or at the very least the CP (there are at least 2 on the waitlist). But NO, they are not upgrading anyone.

This is where the value of the SWU is being diluted. When you get upgraded at the gate you get no club access and must use a NA upgrade to get to the gateway city - not to mention the headache of doing the domestic upgrade. These are small compared to the value of the Envoy seat, but they do have value that some people who use a SWU get but some do not. This must be why they send you 2 NA upgrades and a club pass each year.

Does anyone else agree that 17 seats are a lot to have open 1 week prior to the flight? I don’t know the magic number but to me this is high.

It's not unusual at all. Depending on your destination, a lot(or all) of those last 17 seats could go in the last 3 days.

Get to the airport early and get on the 'standby' list. The waitlist means nothing after the clock strikes midnight on your flight day.

Although there is no foolproof way to predict the way premium seats will sell, I can say from experience that MANY J & F seats are sold at the last minute (e.g., day of travel, or 1 or two days out). The folks that are paying for these seats are business travelers that don't/can't always plan their travel ahead of time, and the disparity between a J fare and full Y isn't so drastic for them.

Having viewed this situation from both sides, I can understand the different perceptions.

While I was working for a medical assistance company, we bought same-day J and F seats for medical teams and/or patients on a daily basis. The nature of the business just didn't allow a lot of advance planning, and the airlines were only too happy to accomodate someone wishing to buy 2 or 3 full fare F seats on a longhaul flight at a cost of $20,000+. They were willing to risk ruffling the feathers of someone desiring an upgrade in the hopes that a company like the one I worked for would call.

Personally, as a former US2 and current US3, I wish they made it easier to upgrade in advance and eliminate the trauma of waiting and hoping for it to clear. Overall US is a joyride compared to UA, where I held PremEx status for several years and never enjoyed the same level of benefits (upgrading, premium seats, short check-in lines, etc.) that US gives even its lowest tier members.

And lastly as a current airline employee, I can see where upgrades are a prime example of the company giving an inch and the customers taking a foot...the SWU is a perk, and a great one at that. However there are policies set forth on how they can be utilized and the sheer number of folks waving these certificates nowadays means that not everyone can be accomodated when/how/if they want to. Unfortunately it leaves many customers walking away ungrateful of the benefits they're provided in exchange for their "loyalty" to the airline.

Thanks for the education on yield management. I didn't realize that there really were so many last minute international travelers. I knew it existed domestically.
Also, I was not complaining. US is the best airline for upgrading. The fact the SWU exists for ALL preferred levels is what makes it even greater. We wouldn't even be having this discussion on other boards. I do hope they sell the seats, earn the revenue and keep the airline and the program alive.

I agree that the SWU has created a lot of certificate waiving arrogent and demanding customers. It also has created a lot of grateful and polite customers. I tend to think I am the latter. I also creates loyalty. Without the SWU possibility, I would have paid less and had a shorter trip on AA. OK, the triple miles helped also. Again, a perk I am thankful of.

I started this thread to spur discussion not to air complaints.

[This message has been edited by mileshound (edited 07-16-2001).]

Elite programs are designed to be diluted. The idea is to get as many people as possible in them, so you make it easier, such as segment qualification. As a US1, I was amazed when these started, and US 2 and 3's got the same stuff, with no difference in the way it could be used. With all due respect to US3's, somebody flying over 100,000 miles as opposed to 25,000, generally expects their perks to be a little
better. Having flooded the system with SWU'S, and making the seats equally available to all elite levels, the inevitible result is to restrict their overall use, and that's what's happening. The company is also aggressively selling a restricted form of Envoy via consolidators for between $2200 and $2900 RT. It also participates in the Amex Platinum 2 for 1 program. They are not interested in confirming people early. They want a lot of people fighting over the inventory, and flying a lot to get to that point. Remember, it wasn't so long ago that there were NO upgrades in International.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by deelmakur:
Elite programs are designed to be diluted. The idea is to get as many people as possible in them, so you make it easier, such as segment qualification. As a US1, I was amazed when these started, and US 2 and 3's got the same stuff, with no difference in the way it could be used. With all due respect to US3's, somebody flying over 100,000 miles as opposed to 25,000, generally expects their perks to be a little
better. Having flooded the system with SWU'S, and making the seats equally available to all elite levels, the inevitible result is to restrict their overall use, and that's what's happening. The company is also aggressively selling a restricted form of Envoy via consolidators for between $2200 and $2900 RT. It also participates in the Amex Platinum 2 for 1 program. They are not interested in confirming people early. They want a lot of people fighting over the inventory, and flying a lot to get to that point. Remember, it wasn't so long ago that there were NO upgrades in International.</font>

Well said. I would also note that there are some $2700 round-trip restricted Envoy fares out there for sale on usairways.com. I, for one, appreciate the fact that the SWUs are out there for us; its a unique perk of flying on U. I would not object to having the SWU priority linked in some manner to status, but I'm egalitarian enough to appreciate the fact that all of U's elite flyers have a shot at Envoy, as today's US3 may be tomorrow's US1.

One further point on the SWUs is that your odds of using them are much better when booking far in advance and when one is traveling in the off-peak times of the year.

In addition to booking early and in off-peak months, one additional key is to book less popular destinations. For example, upgrades to London are probably always tough, while upgrading to Manchester last year was a breeze. So you may want to consider flying to Manchester and taking a train for a couple of hours to London, if you really want to use your SWUs and not sweat it out at the gate.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BBRebozo:
For example, upgrades to London are probably always tough, while upgrading to Manchester last year was a breeze.</font>Even with 4 flights a day to LGW and only 1 to MAN?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
Even with 4 flights a day to LGW and only 1 to MAN?

[/B]</font>
Off peak, LGW is 3x daily.


[This message has been edited by ITRADE (edited 07-17-2001).]

I don't know so much if the SWUs are diluted but I do agree they are more and more difficult to use. I had a similar situation flying PHX-PHL-MAN. It is flight #197 all the way through but at check in, they couldn't take the SWU because they it was under PHL control to release the 14 seats in Envoy and there were a few people ahead of me on the waiting list. At the gate, they called Customer Service to "split the ticket" so that I could use 3 NAs PHX-PHL and then I could inquire again about PHL-MAN when I arrived in PHL.(Yes, it is true that Manchester is easier to upgrade despite my situation.) In the end, I was upgraded right before boarding and only had about 5 minutes in the Envoy lounge. And on return, didn't get to see facilities in MAN because I was in the gate area after passport and ticket inspection before upgraded.

Also, great news- I am Gold again thanks to the challenge posted on this thread. Thanks a million!! And Chexfan, you were right about the Airbus 330. I had flown on SwissAir but USAir is really nice. Great entertainment system with videos on demand and you can pause while visiting the FC lavatory. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

------------------
"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

With regard to the point above about 3X daily to London vs. 1X daily to Manchester: I'm not an expert, but suspect that at least three times as many people want to go to London as Manchester. All I can share is that, in the past, I've found upgrades to London to be very tough, while my one and only attempt at a roundtrip upgrade to Manchester last year was an instantly-confirmed snap.