ClimbGuy

Duplicate post

ClimbGuy

So i think we have gone in a lot of circles here, but in the end Amtrak's NEC is too expensive for a lot of leasure travelers. However, this may not be Amtrak's problem because they have heavy loads throughout the NEC.

IceTrojan

Their long-distance coaches are "better" and newer. The older fleet gets used on shorter routes (sound familiar??)

Example of new bus.
Example of old(est) bus.

ClimbGuy

i guess it makes sense, but what would make more sense is using newer buses on competitive routs like NYC-WAS, than NYC-Chicago. I really don't understand the market for long busses like that (NYC-Chicago). they don't seem to be any cheaper than amtrak or flying and suck a lot more.

IceTrojan

Much like what I call the "Southwest aftermath," people just assume that Greyhound is cheaper without looking at other options. Plus other reasons (fear of flying, self-security on the ground, wanting to see the country/meet new people) are also at play.

I once took Greyhound from STL-IND-SDF, mainly because I had never taken it before, and wanted to see what it was like. Luckily, I got brand spankin' new buses, I saw towns I would never see otherwise, and there were some "characters" around me.

Now, I can say I've taken Greyhound, and that's quite enough for me

nerd

Explain what fixing the switches involves/accomplishes to someone who is not at all familiar with the concept.

thanks -

ClimbGuy

Well they can't maintain their operations on people wanted to try it out. The fact that people assume the bus is cheaper is a major failure on the part of the airlines marketing. I can't image the population of people would rather take a 14 hours greyhound bus over a 2.5 hr flight, when the price is the same is very big.

If my bus from WAS-NYC is clean and safe I'll take it again. If i am scared of the people around me and it is sketchy I wont be. I don't mind and may like 'characters' but weirdness and 'skechyness' is a different story. I am very interested to see what its like.

ClimbGuy

Ok here is a sample, New York to Chicago on May 24:
Greyhound: the shortest trip option is 17h 10m an is $82 (7-day advance ticket)
Southwest: Long Island to Midway can be had for $49 (and only takes 2h 15m)

AlanB

I probably should have used the word improve, rather than fix, with regard to the switches. By improve, I mean put in higher speed switches that allow the trains to move faster. I'm not suggesting that you want make improvements to the point where one can find an Acela set screaming into Washington Union Station at 150 MPH, as they would never be able to stop it prior to parking it inside the station's great hall.

But for example right now, all the switches leading into/out of WUS are rated for 15 MPH. Making those switches capable of say even 30 MPH would help trim a bit of time for some for inbound trains. They would really help however for trains leaving WUS. I don't have exact measurements, but for aproximately 1/2 mile you have a 150 MPH capable train sauntering along at 15 MPH. Then even after you clear the switch area, there is a sharp curve that is rated at only 30 MPH.

Factor in the amount of distance that it now takes the Acela to comfortably accelerate to 150 MPH once you've cleared all of that, and you've probably traveled over 2 miles and perhaps 3 miles. That means time lost in the overal journey.

For switches not at an end point things actually can be worse, since now you not only have to start slowing down early enough for the switch, but then you have to allow extra time to get back up to 150 MPH once you are across the switch. Now Amtrak has upgraded many of the switches along the mainline, but not all have been done to my knowledge. Note: I don't believe that we have switches capable of handling a train going 150MPH, I think the highest speed switch we have is either rated for 80MPH or 90MPH. But again having a 30MPH switch instead of a 15MPH, or a 60MPH instead of a 30MPH, or an 80MPH instead of a 60MPH makes a big difference in the amount of time lost.

Then you have certain bridges that require slow speeds, major turns like the one west bound shortly before you arrive into Philly from NY. Again even now you're taking a train running at 135 MPH down to I believe 50 for that curve, it might be a bit higher. You've got the 35MPH tunnels in Baltimore that slow things down considerably.

All those minutes add up considerably more than getting things upgraded from 135MPH to 150MPH. The difference there is no where near as great as having a train capable of 150MPH running at 15MPH for even 1 mile. In one minute of time, a train running at 15MPH is has covered a quarter of a mile vs. a train running at 150MPH is now 2.5 miles closer to the end of it's run in the same amount of time. Move things up to 30MPH and you've covered half a mile now in a minute. Running at 135MPH, the difference is negligable, as you'll cover 2 and a quarter miles in that minute, just slightly less than running at 150MPH.

KathyWdrf

But if you take one of those "Chinatown specials" (aka "curbside" bus companies), be aware that they have a questionable safety record. I realize that both Greyhound and Amtrak have their share of accidents too, but take a look at this Washington Post article on the Chinatown intercity buses (published in September 2006):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...500557_pf.html

This article says that New Century (the company whose URL is provided by ClimbGuy above) had extraordinarily bad scores in driver safety, vehicle safety inspections, and safety management. Also check out the scores for Fung Wah, Dragon Coach, and Greyhound. Overall, Greyhound came out the best of those whose scores are listed in the article (though Fung Wah did come out slightly better on one score -- vehicle safety inspections). Another issue for the curbside companies is ADA compliance.

There is also a lack of accountability by some curbside bus companies; read the section in the article about Dragon Coach, which "has no operating authority and no insurance on file," and "was ordered out of service last year." Guess what? The company changed its name to Sago and kept on operating. A lot of buses are subcontracted out as well.

The point is, it appears that these curbside bus services offer cheap fares by cutting corners every way they can, including in important areas such as driver safety.

Scary stuff. @:-)