sbm12

Officially, No. The T&C of the program indicate that the freebie earns no miles. You might actually earn miles, but if that happens it would be a mistake, not something that you should expect.

chewy3

E. If you are qualified to deduct the ticket cost from your taxes as a small business expense, this becomes a very attractive option since you can deduct the full cost whereas normally you wouldn't be able to deduct the 2nd person's ticket.

Yme

It should be called 2.5-4-1 because the ticket they sell is 2.5 times the discounted BC ticket. I get the feeling that the bookers work on commission, and they act indignant when you tell them that the price is unattractive (as if they thought you were going to say $2500 EWR-SDQ is a hot deal)

I read a few posts where others try to justify this: "You can write off the expensive ticket and take your wife" (scam on IRS), "if the company pays" (scam on shareholders), and "pass it on to the client" (scam on client).

I am not personally comfortable with any of this. I think that AMEX should re-tool this so that it offers some sort of real value (i.e. 1.7X discounted BC), rather than somebody having to get cheated in order for the numbers to work. That would be a win-win situation for the cardholder and the airline, which can sell some seats that would otherwise be empty.

mia

Welcome to Flyertalk. You seem to have read very selectively. If you need to travel (for example) within the next three weeks, you aren't going to find a discounted business class fare to most destinations. Likewise, there is a substantial penalty if you cancel or change a restricted business class ticket. The program may not have value for you, but to suggest that everyone who uses it is scamming is unwarranted.

NickW

Thank you mia, that's exactly what I was just about to post, but perhaps a little more polite.

chewy3

To say that you're scamming the IRS is just ridiculous.

Yme

Well, to be more precise, scamming the IRS is, in reality, scamming one's fellow taxpayers. We have a voluntary tax code in the US which means playing by the rules.

If you truly believe that overpaying for a BC ticket so that your spouse's leisure travel can be deducted as a business expense is within the spirit of the tax code then I will let other's be the judge of that.

My point was simply that Amex and the airlines could find a way to reward a good customer carrying an expensive card (and paying well above the lowest available fare for a seat that would otherwise be empty) without relying on a system that frequently depends on a third party to unknowingly subsidize the cost.

mia

As consumers we tend to look at prices from the bottom up. We think of the lowest fares as normal, and anything higher as a penalty. The economic reality is that airlines can afford to sell only a small fraction of their seats at the lowest fares. They look at prices from the top down. Full fares are normal, and anything lower reflects a discount to balance demand with supply.

Traditional airline pricing is designed to separate business from leisure travelers through a series of crude proxy tests (roundtrip including Saturday night, advance purchase, no changes, no refunds), restrictions that are assumed to be unattractive to most business travelers. From the airlines' perspective the scam occurs when business travelers are able to fly on leisure rates.

Companion fare programs are designed to justify a discount by substituting a different set of restrictions. Those who are unhappy with this program seem to expect to have the companion discount in addition to the discount earned by purchasing a restricted ticket. I see no motivation for an airline to do this.

I also see no justification for characterizing purchase of a full fare ticket as cheating an employer, client or fellow taxpayers. These fares exist because they provide nearly unlimited flexibility. If you need that flexibility, pay for it.

sbm12

The harder part is defining "need" in a business travel scenario. I used to travel a lot for work with a relatively set schedule, but every now and then had to change my flights. It would cost me money every time I did it, but I still came out ahead in the long run by only paying extra when my plans changed, not every time. For a last-minute J fare there are rarely a lot of options other than to just buy the full fare. At that point, getting the 2-4-1 isn't really so bad. If you go out of your way to spend more money than you can reasonably justify then it is bad. Everyone's plans can change. It is only the people whose plans regularly DO change that should probably be buying the fully refundable fares.

kennycrudup

Lemme guess- Democrat?! (They seem to have this mindset that they're "entitled" to as much tax money as they can squeeze out).

But let's face it, as a small-business owner, if it's a deductible item and there's a bigger benefit for paying more money for something (be it a piece of equipment or travel, etc.) you're damn right I'm going to get the bigger-ticket item (within reasonable sense for the business). There's no "scam" about it. That's why I stay at nice places in my occaisional business travel instead of Ramada Inns- both are just as deductible, but the nice place has more benefits to me.

(BTW, thanks to whomever pointed out the "bring the wife/GF" option- I hadn't thought of that! )

SANDIEGO

I agree that for such a hefty annual fee to have the card, I think Amex could make the discount a little more attractive.

Every year I think about getting this card for the lounge membership, and I look into the 2-4-1 BC ticket, then realize that "discount" is not so great for my use, and I can get a lounge membership for less elsewhere, so there isn't enough to entice me to get the card.

If there was another benefit that appealed to me, that would push me over the fence, and AMEX would get to skim their percentage (merchant fee) of every purchase I make. Instead Mastercard skims from all of my purchases!

sbm12

The 2-4-1 domestic seems to be of significant value to many. I've used it two years in a row, offsetting ~$200-250 in expense each time. That made the cost for the lounge access the best available from any avenue. Just another bit to consider.

journalist212

has anyone ever earned miles on the companion leg of a 2-4-1 ticket on cx?

J-FLyer

Will the companion ticket earn miles? I understand that in the domestic program they do, but am not sure about the internation companion ticket program. Thanks for the help. ^

sbm12

Officially, no. In reality, I have no idea.

The T&C say no miles earned for the companion seat. I vaguely recall posts here saying that miles were earned, but I wouldn't count on it.