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Centurion replacement for Starwood Platinum status -- any rumors yet?

Centurion replacement for Starwood Platinum status -- any rumors yet?

Old Oct 2, 2006, 8:25 pm
  #16  
DCF
 
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Here in Australia, the Starwood Platinum benefit was dropped after one year (in 2005) and the same fingerpointing exercise occurred.

I pushed and pushed to get to the bottom of it, and was eventually advised off the record that Starwood had comped Amex the Platinum status for Centurions at the outset, but had a contract permitting them to charge Amex per member.

After one year, Starwood elected to do so, reportedly at a cost of A$500 (US$ 300 at the time) per member - I can't precisely remember the amount, and they wouldn't put this in writing. As soon as Amex was no longer getting something for nothing they decided to drop the Starwood Platinum benefit, not realising that for their clients it was worth more than every other benefit combined.

The irony is, if Amex asked us "would you pay an extra $500 for annual Starwood Platinum status in addition to your annual fee?", I suspect 99% of us would agree.

I recently did a Centurion benefits questionairre, and like at least 80% of people pointed out that hardly any airlines are left in the companion program, that the companion gets no miles, but above all that only SPG Platinum and free Mandarin Oriental and Raffles hotel nights make the black card worthwhile.

24 hours later I discovered they had cancelled the Raffles free night from 1/1/2007!
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Old Oct 3, 2006, 7:41 pm
  #17  
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The companion program has little value except for those doing last minute international travel as it is based on paying the highest cost for the paid ticket and with advanced purchases you usually beat that price by half or more. Also, if you do not live in the appropriate gateway city, you have to pay for two to get there.

The status perks are what count for me and losing Starwood is a big minus. I really do not need a second Centurion card as a Starwood replacement. Since my wife rarely flies other than on Southwest without me, she has no need for one.
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Old Oct 9, 2006, 10:50 pm
  #18  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Programs: Starwood Gold, AMEX Plat
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Originally Posted by mshaikun
The Centurion bonus I most enjoy is Starwood Platinum. My card renews on February 1 and that benefit disappears on February 28. After that I will be Starwood Gold. Has anyone heard what Centurion is going to offer in place of Starwood Platimun?
Centurion in Hong Kong offering platinum status on Intercontinental Hotels Group, upgrades at Small Luxury Hotels of the world and free nights and upgrades at Mandarin Oriental hotels
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Old Oct 9, 2006, 10:57 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by challenger
Centurion in Hong Kong offering platinum status on Intercontinental Hotels Group, upgrades at Small Luxury Hotels of the world and free nights and upgrades at Mandarin Oriental hotels
USA has most of those, I don't know about Small leading hotels though, Kagehitokiri seems to be mentioning that every once in a while, he might know more about it...
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 12:26 am
  #20  
 
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Fellow CENT holders, AMEX is the KING of diminishing returns in a program...start out w/ a bang...get a group signed up...and then allow the program to constantly and chronically erode and dwindle...to see how far they can take it as they perform the classic business maneuver "profit optimization", not unlike "yield management" in airline terms.

Case in point - the moribund and essentially worthless Membership Rewards.

WOW...how that program has lost partner after partner (both airlines and now hotels also) over the years...never being replaced (ok...I aadmit - I don't count JetBlue).....since MR's inception, AMEX has failed to sign up not one, but the two world's largest airlines as affinity partners (United and AA) which to me is the most-visible sign MR's weakness....and yet AMEX never seems to notice.

As long as the "greater fool theory" works for AMEX (there's a sucker born every minute and presumably MR rolls are still strong) they will allow CENT perks...MR perks...any perk to erode and die...until the pain (loss of income from cancels) exceeds the replenishing income from the greater fools still signing up.

Simple math...classic Harvard MBA case study response. AMEX is merely optimizing their ROI after a given program starts out w/ a bang. As business-persons ourselves, can we blame them ?

I think we all know if AMEX would ante up whatever starwood was charging, we would still have the PLAT perk. In simple math, starwood pulled the perk *because AMEX didn't make it worth their while*. We all intuitively know this. Thus, it is disingenious for AMEX to now be blaming starwood. In fact, its a little stupid methinks for AMEX to ever be passing the blame onto a partner. Penny-wise, pound-foolish. Instead, AMEX has no doubt calculated the cancels to be less than the cost of the perk and and no, they will never take responsibility for losing starwood (after losing Hyatt Diamond the year before). Guess Hilton and Marriott told AMEX to get lost.

Too bad, so sad for we lemmings who never cancel the card and walk away.

Last edited by ILUVCITIBANK; Oct 10, 2006 at 12:33 am
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 2:30 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by ILUVCITIBANK
Fellow CENT holders, AMEX is the KING of diminishing returns in a program...start out w/ a bang...get a group signed up...and then allow the program to constantly and chronically erode and dwindle...to see how far they can take it as they perform the classic business maneuver "profit optimization", not unlike "yield management" in airline terms.

Case in point - the moribund and essentially worthless Membership Rewards.

WOW...how that program has lost partner after partner (both airlines and now hotels also) over the years...never being replaced (ok...I aadmit - I don't count JetBlue).....since MR's inception, AMEX has failed to sign up not one, but the two world's largest airlines as affinity partners (United and AA) which to me is the most-visible sign MR's weakness....and yet AMEX never seems to notice.

As long as the "greater fool theory" works for AMEX (there's a sucker born every minute and presumably MR rolls are still strong) they will allow CENT perks...MR perks...any perk to erode and die...until the pain (loss of income from cancels) exceeds the replenishing income from the greater fools still signing up.

Simple math...classic Harvard MBA case study response. AMEX is merely optimizing their ROI after a given program starts out w/ a bang. As business-persons ourselves, can we blame them ?

I think we all know if AMEX would ante up whatever starwood was charging, we would still have the PLAT perk. In simple math, starwood pulled the perk *because AMEX didn't make it worth their while*. We all intuitively know this. Thus, it is disingenious for AMEX to now be blaming starwood. In fact, its a little stupid methinks for AMEX to ever be passing the blame onto a partner. Penny-wise, pound-foolish. Instead, AMEX has no doubt calculated the cancels to be less than the cost of the perk and and no, they will never take responsibility for losing starwood (after losing Hyatt Diamond the year before). Guess Hilton and Marriott told AMEX to get lost.

Too bad, so sad for we lemmings who never cancel the card and walk away.
You're probably right, unfortunately.
My hope is that when your beloved CITI comes out with the new Chairman-replacement, that it truly does compete with Centurion, and creates an amenity war between the two...

One can hope...
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 9:00 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by aviators99
You're probably right, unfortunately.
My hope is that when your beloved CITI comes out with the new Chairman-replacement, that it truly does compete with Centurion, and creates an amenity war between the two...

One can hope...
Actually, Citibank "fell from grace" for me when AAdvantage introduced milesaaver. My theory then was Citibank would feel the pinch over time as demand shifted out of the aadvantage program...and some day have to start offering Citibank/Aadvantage promotions...sure enough, its finally happening, but its too little, and waay too late.

Technically I still hold several citibank ccard products, but because they are aligned w/ Aadvantage, they went from massive useage...to collecting dust on the shelf literally overnight. Who in the world is dumb enough to be actively collecting aadvantage miles when one can hardly use them, especially to fly a family of five or six to a domestic destination in the USA ? What a joke aadvantage has become for an average family trying to take a summer vacation. Most would agree those are actually lowly expectations and ways to use miles...but that's the lowly goal I set for aadvantage. And they fail this test miserably at the 25K base level award.

I no longer have any great affinity for Citibank, but * sigh* I am stuck w/ this flyertalk moniker.
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 11:06 am
  #23  
mia
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<<Citibank "fell from grace" for me when AAdvantage introduced milesaaver.>>

I don't see the global connection to Citibank. In addition to the AAdvantage cards they issue cards that earn Thank You points and also Diners Club Rewards points, both of which can be redeemed for air travel on a variety of carriers.

dennis
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 11:28 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by mia
<<Citibank "fell from grace" for me when AAdvantage introduced milesaaver.>>

I don't see the global connection to Citibank. In addition to the AAdvantage cards they issue cards that earn Thank You points and also Diners Club Rewards points, both of which can be redeemed for air travel on a variety of carriers.

dennis
I've researched various Citibank products several times, and never found any affinity card that came close to the starwood/spg/amex optima. It would take a dramatic perk package to displace my efforts w/ spg/amex card.

No, I did not totally close out my citibank card(s)...took years developing the loc...so I keep hoping Citibank will release a compettiive product to starwood/amex's "bang for the buck". So far, no joy.
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 7:02 pm
  #25  
 
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centurion upgrades

hi,

they made a lot downgrades this year, but what i have seen so far is , that centurion is trying to make the product similar in all countries.

with the current upgrades on platinum cards i know that they are trying to get the exclusivity of the higher cards up again.

anyway, i know for the german card that there is a big change coming, and the new catalogues are already in work for this

so only two more month to go until we get a better centurion in germany.

dp
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 8:05 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by derpelikan
hi,

they made a lot downgrades this year, but what i have seen so far is , that centurion is trying to make the product similar in all countries.

with the current upgrades on platinum cards i know that they are trying to get the exclusivity of the higher cards up again.

anyway, i know for the german card that there is a big change coming, and the new catalogues are already in work for this

so only two more month to go until we get a better centurion in germany.

dp
Well I believe when I see it, I noticed they upgraded a little bit the hotel program as well as the partner hotels, but no change to the hotel status program. Well my centurion card was just renewed, no announcement yet about any pending changes, I don't know.
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 8:06 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by derpelikan
hi,

they made a lot downgrades this year, but what i have seen so far is , that centurion is trying to make the product similar in all countries.

with the current upgrades on platinum cards i know that they are trying to get the exclusivity of the higher cards up again.

anyway, i know for the german card that there is a big change coming, and the new catalogues are already in work for this

so only two more month to go until we get a better centurion in germany.

dp
Oh and by the way, I would like to know how you know for sure that a change is coming.....
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Old Oct 10, 2006, 11:29 pm
  #28  
 
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:)

Originally Posted by ThWilmesi
Oh and by the way, I would like to know how you know for sure that a change is coming.....


well i know somebody who is working at the company which is creating the new brochures .

dp
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Old Oct 11, 2006, 11:33 am
  #29  
 
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Pardon my cynicism, but if this involves AMEX, "changes", aka "enhancements", are mostly "take-backs" and dilution of benefits coupled w/ doublespeak language intended to fool the [typically uninformed] consumer or cardholder that a takeback = a true improvement.

Rarely is there ever a true positive change (ie NEW and IMPROVED benefits) in the world of affinity programs. The clear model is to a) roll out some new program, and then b) begin to dilute and reduce benefits until the program goes kaput from lack of interest (new sign-ups). AMEX has milked MR far too long and IMO has done a marvelous job of it...if that were my corporate objective.

RE: Starwood's new BUSINESS/starwood optima rollout: I don't even grant this change w/ the introduction of the starwood business card to be much of a "benefit" or "innovative initiative"...more like it is merely countering the status quo whereby Hilton is *already and has been* offering HHONORS GOLD for a given spend amount now for a year or more ? offering 2-3x starpoints for expenses at a starwood property ? Also merely catching up to competition.

So time will tell. As for me, I won't hold my breath on AMEX improving MR or improving perk CENT package.
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Old Oct 11, 2006, 12:03 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by ILUVCITIBANK
So time will tell. As for me, I won't hold my breath on AMEX improving MR or improving perk CENT package.
Most of the people agree that European Platinum card benefits have been enhanced during this year quite remarkably (new benefits, new travel insurance etc.). It would be obvious to assume that they will be enhancing European Centurions in the future.

It might be completely another story for US cards.
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