NYTimes: "Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War"
Apr 15, 2017, 10:00 pm
#61
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ATL
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt LT DM, Wyndham DM, Hertz PC, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,038
I find the dismissal of Millennials here to fit the general attitude of most older people. "Oh they're just shallow, silly, and undisciplined. Glad I am better than them."
In some ways I'd agree, but because it makes sense. People who are younger tend to have fewer critical expenses, and have priorities based on more free time and more energy (in general). They are less likely to have children, much less a house or a spouse. So if they are more frivolous, it's partly because they can be.
Additionally, it's not like older generations: a) were oh-so-much-smarter when we were young, or; b) are super financially disciplined now. It's not Millennials who were using their houses as ATM machines 10 years ago, and who went belly up across the nation (and world) with interest-only mortgages they couldn't pay back. It's not Millennials who are within a few short years of retirement with nothing saved.
So maybe the answer isn't that Millennials are shallow. They have priorities, and they are marketed to just as we older people were/are. If they all want the CSR but aren't necessarily going to get the full value of its benefits, that would probably be true of the AMEX as well. If Chase's marketing is more effective, well good for them. There's a reason 80s songs started showing up in commercials for luxury cars: Gen Xers are now the target market, and are apparently "shallow" enough that marketers think they'll perk up when they hear them.
(Spoken as a Gen Xer with a CSR and an AMEX SPG...but no luxury car.)
In some ways I'd agree, but because it makes sense. People who are younger tend to have fewer critical expenses, and have priorities based on more free time and more energy (in general). They are less likely to have children, much less a house or a spouse. So if they are more frivolous, it's partly because they can be.
Additionally, it's not like older generations: a) were oh-so-much-smarter when we were young, or; b) are super financially disciplined now. It's not Millennials who were using their houses as ATM machines 10 years ago, and who went belly up across the nation (and world) with interest-only mortgages they couldn't pay back. It's not Millennials who are within a few short years of retirement with nothing saved.
So maybe the answer isn't that Millennials are shallow. They have priorities, and they are marketed to just as we older people were/are. If they all want the CSR but aren't necessarily going to get the full value of its benefits, that would probably be true of the AMEX as well. If Chase's marketing is more effective, well good for them. There's a reason 80s songs started showing up in commercials for luxury cars: Gen Xers are now the target market, and are apparently "shallow" enough that marketers think they'll perk up when they hear them.
(Spoken as a Gen Xer with a CSR and an AMEX SPG...but no luxury car.)
Not that that has anything to do with this thread though.
I am a millennial who has both Plat and CSR...I'm only giving my opinions based off of personal observations of the people I know (friends, classmates, coworkers, etc). I'm basing this off the fact that the school system teaches you absolutely nothing about finance to prepare you for handling things like credit or saving in general. Just look at /r/personalfinance to see the types of questions that just get repeated over and over. So I do not think that the dismissal of the younger generation is misguided.
Millennials tend to like low effort rewards and instant gratification that comes with short attention span. If it is too difficult to understand what we get, we just avoid all together. The whole article tries to make the idea of having premium cc's like CSR/Plat as a status symbol type thing. In reality, it has nothing to do with shallowness and more of a cc benefit war. If you want millennials to sign up, you need to offer something they care about. Amex is losing because 5x air/hotel is useless for most people who do not have much savings to travel more than once a year, while 3x dining/travel is straightforward and more applicable to daily use.
Millennials tend to like low effort rewards and instant gratification that comes with short attention span. If it is too difficult to understand what we get, we just avoid all together. The whole article tries to make the idea of having premium cc's like CSR/Plat as a status symbol type thing. In reality, it has nothing to do with shallowness and more of a cc benefit war. If you want millennials to sign up, you need to offer something they care about. Amex is losing because 5x air/hotel is useless for most people who do not have much savings to travel more than once a year, while 3x dining/travel is straightforward and more applicable to daily use.
And also agreed on the dining. "Oh everything I eat gets points".
Also on the flossed I have found I have a lot of millennial friends that are absolutely and completely financially stupid. Some without their family support would be in major trouble and others running low credit scores and continuing piling on more CCs with annual fees and carrying large balances. Just to be able to 'keep up with the jones'. So I guess marketing to this group can be great. Can either carry balances and get interest fees or lots of swiping eating out.
Apr 15, 2017, 10:06 pm
#62
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: PHX, ICN
Programs: OZ Diamond Plus, Marriott Gold
Posts: 502
I'm basing this off the fact that the school system teaches you absolutely nothing about finance to prepare you for handling things like credit or saving in general...
...Millennials tend to like low effort rewards and instant gratification that comes with short attention span. If it is too difficult to understand what we get, we just avoid all together.
...Millennials tend to like low effort rewards and instant gratification that comes with short attention span. If it is too difficult to understand what we get, we just avoid all together.
Tell me when the school system wholeheartedly invested in teaching everyone financial discipline. And when people didn't want to cut corners for the easiest benefit they could get.And I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your comment. Give people benefits they are interested in, and they'll follow. I'm a big believer in marketing as well though. There's a reason the CSR is "$450 fee, but $300 travel credit" instead of "$150 fee." They are segmenting the potential buyers. If Millennials were somehow unique in not wanting the extra effort, wouldn't that be a huge disadvantage for the card that they are supposedly gaga for?
Apr 15, 2017, 10:09 pm
#63
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ATL
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt LT DM, Wyndham DM, Hertz PC, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,038
Neither of those things are unique to Millennials. Tell me when the school system wholeheartedly invested in teaching everyone financial discipline. And when people didn't want to cut corners for the easiest benefit they could get.
And I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your comment. Give people benefits they are interested in, and they'll follow. I'm a big believer in marketing as well though. There's a reason the CSR is "$450 fee, but $300 travel credit" instead of "$150 fee." They are segmenting the potential buyers. If Millennials were somehow unique in not wanting the extra effort, wouldn't that be a huge disadvantage for the card that they are supposedly gaga for?
Tell me when the school system wholeheartedly invested in teaching everyone financial discipline. And when people didn't want to cut corners for the easiest benefit they could get.And I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your comment. Give people benefits they are interested in, and they'll follow. I'm a big believer in marketing as well though. There's a reason the CSR is "$450 fee, but $300 travel credit" instead of "$150 fee." They are segmenting the potential buyers. If Millennials were somehow unique in not wanting the extra effort, wouldn't that be a huge disadvantage for the card that they are supposedly gaga for?
"Online says I have 2K".
Apr 15, 2017, 10:12 pm
#64
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 756
Neither of those things are unique to Millennials. Tell me when the school system wholeheartedly invested in teaching everyone financial discipline. And when people didn't want to cut corners for the easiest benefit they could get.
And I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your comment. Give people benefits they are interested in, and they'll follow. I'm a big believer in marketing as well though. There's a reason the CSR is "$450 fee, but $300 travel credit" instead of "$150 fee." They are segmenting the potential buyers. If Millennials were somehow unique in not wanting the extra effort, wouldn't that be a huge disadvantage for the card that they are supposedly gaga for?
Tell me when the school system wholeheartedly invested in teaching everyone financial discipline. And when people didn't want to cut corners for the easiest benefit they could get.And I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your comment. Give people benefits they are interested in, and they'll follow. I'm a big believer in marketing as well though. There's a reason the CSR is "$450 fee, but $300 travel credit" instead of "$150 fee." They are segmenting the potential buyers. If Millennials were somehow unique in not wanting the extra effort, wouldn't that be a huge disadvantage for the card that they are supposedly gaga for?
Apr 15, 2017, 10:19 pm
#65
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,933
Apr 15, 2017, 10:32 pm
#66
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boulder
Programs: AA Plat, CX Silver
Posts: 2,361
Did the rep actually do something that you couldn't do yourself? Like could you have gotten this reservation on your own, by going online, calling the restaurant, etc? If it's something you could have done yourself, I don't see how this really adds value, but if it is not, then I think it's valuable.
...or I can just call Amex or Chase, give them a list of restaurants and dates and let them do it.
Apr 15, 2017, 11:57 pm
#67
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YVR to SEA
Posts: 2,535
Where are you going that doesn't take Amex? Even international. 10 days in Japan and I had to use Chase cars one time at the Shanghai airport. Everywhere that took cards in Japan took AMEx.
And locally I can't remember the last time. Even hole in the wall eateries have Square or similar. All Amex.
And locally I can't remember the last time. Even hole in the wall eateries have Square or similar. All Amex.
Costco Canada is MasterCard only.
Loblaws (multiple grocery chains, a dominant player that competes head to head with Walmart super centres) is MasterCard and visa only.
6 times in the last month I've had to fall back to visa because Chinese and other Asian restaurants in Vancouver don't accept AmEx.
My dentist doesn't accept AmEx.
My wife's chiro and massage therapist doesn't accept AmEx.
AmEx acceptance is a problem, that's just a fact of life.
Apr 16, 2017, 1:06 am
#68
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
Let's say we have different standards.
Also this thread may contradict with your impression.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...2015-a-21.html
And this latest post
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28179572-post302.html
Last time we flew out MIA it was the same thing. Luckily we could use the Premium lounge that QR used for their business class passengers - during the QR time slot, the foods/drinks all are better than what were offered in the Centurion, more options, better quality. Most importantly, far more seating areas available for a quiet meal without having people mulling around you.
Also this thread may contradict with your impression.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...2015-a-21.html
And this latest post
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28179572-post302.html
Last time we flew out MIA it was the same thing. Luckily we could use the Premium lounge that QR used for their business class passengers - during the QR time slot, the foods/drinks all are better than what were offered in the Centurion, more options, better quality. Most importantly, far more seating areas available for a quiet meal without having people mulling around you.
Some lounges are great-Qantas in HKG. But it seems to me that a lot of the heavy breathing about lounges is the idea of getting something special, rather than the reality.
Apr 16, 2017, 2:24 am
#69
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
I agree with Happy. Our visit to DFW Centurion last month was underwhelming. Crowded, few places to sit, kids running around-just like out on the concourse. Food was just ok, and buffet was not well kept up.
Some lounges are great-Qantas in HKG. But it seems to me that a lot of the heavy breathing about lounges is the idea of getting something special, rather than the reality.
Some lounges are great-Qantas in HKG. But it seems to me that a lot of the heavy breathing about lounges is the idea of getting something special, rather than the reality.
If Amex is trying to be classy, Centurion lounges definitely are not.
Apr 16, 2017, 4:21 am
#70
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ATL
Posts: 802
Where are you going that doesn't take Amex? Even international. 10 days in Japan and I had to use Chase cars one time at the Shanghai airport. Everywhere that took cards in Japan took AMEx.
And locally I can't remember the last time. Even hole in the wall eateries have Square or similar. All Amex.
And locally I can't remember the last time. Even hole in the wall eateries have Square or similar. All Amex.
Apr 16, 2017, 7:11 am
#71
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Posts: 8,964
I would agree with this. We went to France a few years ago and even in Paris I found our Plat Amex all but useless. When we got home I canceled and explained the reason. Two years later I have a Plat again and head off to Greece in a few days..... my guess is I will find the same issue I did 2 years ago....maybe even more so being in Greece.
Apr 16, 2017, 7:28 am
#72
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,320
I can't help but think this change (and in particular, the Uber benefit) was part of a misguided attempt to try to get Millennials to sign up for the Plat: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/b...e-reserve.html
It's as if someone at one of Amex's corporate meetings asked: "What do Millennials spend their money on? What do Millennials buy, what do they use?" And someone else stood up and said "Uber! They take Uber all over town!" And therefore Amex decided to provide Uber benefits, without addressing the issues that still hold back the Platinum: A far less useful points earning structure and fewer transfer partners than the CSR. Millennials want a card that provides a good ROI for their spend as well as rewards that are easy for them to use.
It's as if someone at one of Amex's corporate meetings asked: "What do Millennials spend their money on? What do Millennials buy, what do they use?" And someone else stood up and said "Uber! They take Uber all over town!" And therefore Amex decided to provide Uber benefits, without addressing the issues that still hold back the Platinum: A far less useful points earning structure and fewer transfer partners than the CSR. Millennials want a card that provides a good ROI for their spend as well as rewards that are easy for them to use.
Apr 16, 2017, 8:03 am
#73
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Posts: 8,964
Apr 16, 2017, 9:02 am
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,034
I would agree with this. We went to France a few years ago and even in Paris I found our Plat Amex all but useless. When we got home I canceled and explained the reason. Two years later I have a Plat again and head off to Greece in a few days..... my guess is I will find the same issue I did 2 years ago....maybe even more so being in Greece.
But, for sure, Amex will be a problem.
Frankly, I think any business that doesn't take Amex is paying attention to their costs, and potentially making a smart decision. In the US, it's harder to not accept Amex, but in Greece? Any merchant is pretty sure their customer will have a non-Amex with them. I can't see any US traveler going abroad with only an Amex.
Apr 16, 2017, 9:31 am
#75
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ATL
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt LT DM, Wyndham DM, Hertz PC, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,038
I have a minimum spend I'm trying to hit, so amex is my first choice whenever possible.
Costco Canada is MasterCard only.
Loblaws (multiple grocery chains, a dominant player that competes head to head with Walmart super centres) is MasterCard and visa only.
6 times in the last month I've had to fall back to visa because Chinese and other Asian restaurants in Vancouver don't accept AmEx.
My dentist doesn't accept AmEx.
My wife's chiro and massage therapist doesn't accept AmEx.
AmEx acceptance is a problem, that's just a fact of life.
Costco Canada is MasterCard only.
Loblaws (multiple grocery chains, a dominant player that competes head to head with Walmart super centres) is MasterCard and visa only.
6 times in the last month I've had to fall back to visa because Chinese and other Asian restaurants in Vancouver don't accept AmEx.
My dentist doesn't accept AmEx.
My wife's chiro and massage therapist doesn't accept AmEx.
AmEx acceptance is a problem, that's just a fact of life.