baccarat_king

I don't really buy the argument. If you can hold down successful job and take a 6 week adventure holiday you can surely remember to pay your bills on time (or create alerts or a mechanism to remind you). Most people pay their bills prior to an extended holiday. Even if you were away for 6 weeks; I have to imagine you only need 30 minutes during ONE DAY of the 6 weeks to review a few emails and bills; I'm also not buying that very many people with significant obligations and bills (and no assistant) "check-out" for an entire 6 weeks with no phone, email or other communication. This is all part of being an adult.

By NOT having direct debit, you :
a) have more time to pay
b) can split into multiple payments (or pay some early) without fear that DD will not be handled properly
c) can properly review your transactions before your payment

I guess, my other issue, is that I'm not as well to do as other people here; and have to make sure that the €10.000 to €18.000 is in the right account at the right moment for the monthly payment. With direct debit, there is an assumption that you just leave all this money sitting there (in the account associated with the card). I just don't see the value in leaving that much money in my "transactional account." Now, I guess, those who keep €500.000 in that account since they have such high monthly expenses, hardly notice any card payments. So, in essence, if you have to move money around anyway; remembering to also send the monthly payment seems like part of the "overall situation."

I guess, since this is FlyerTalk, which heavily revolves around promotions, rules, "tricks," and more rules; I find it hard to believe this "culture" would be one where people have trouble keeping track of when to pay their bills. If you can "trick" a mistake fare that spans three continents, or redeem the "unredeemable" aspirational international first class ticket.... surely, keeping track of bills and payments is a rather simple exercise.

pstravels

Very informative post baccarat king. I appreciate the info.

baccarat_king

There is actually, one legitimate reason to have direct debit; and that is if you need to access cash (ATM) from your AMEX card. At least for NL-AMEX, you have to be signed up for direct debit to access cash (I am assuming the same of UK-AMEX).

Not really sure how many people actually access this "feature," I prefer to take out cash directly from my bank-account. But, perhaps, as a back-up or if you needed a week or two of float on your cash-withdrawal.

gum

Are you sure? I *think* that any cash withdrawal is debited from your current account nearly immediately and not part of the payment cycle of the normal transactions.

Gagravarr

I believe I have the cash advanced feature enabled on both my (Amex UK) credit and charge cards. I was told the FX fees I'd be charged, how much per day I could withdraw, what my limit was on each card, and the interest that'd be accrued from withdrawl until paid off, but nothing about needing a direct debit enabled for it.

(I got it set up for a large payment I thought I'd need to make in cash whilst abroad at short notice, but managed to find another way to pay it, so haven't tried it, but I believe it's all set up without a direct debit in sight!)

mia

American Express offer different arrangements with various products:

In some countries (e.g. the USA) withdrawals from automated teller banking machines are passed through to the associated bank account with only a few days' delay. The user is paying American Express for the convenience of not carrying the bank's own card.

In other countries (e.g. the UK-issued International Dollar Card) withdrawals are posted to the account the same as a purchase, but without earning rewards. The user is paying American Express for the use of the funds in addition to the convenience.

baccarat_king

Correct, the NL-issued Platinum Card treats it like a purchase. But, you are required to be signed up for direct debit to use this feature, or so I've been told.

Astaroth

baccarat_king

My question was if you would want to break your holiday to do it, not is it possible to do it.

Different forums attract different types of people and indeed for the FlyerTalk type of person maybe there is little value in have a DD in place however your original comment was about ANYONE needing to use DDs. Whilst we here may have a mass of accounts, complex financial affairs, assistants etc many people have just one account where their salary goes in and bills go out and so yes the Ł300 for this months bill is just left in their from payday to collection date.

Consumer rights forums are littered with people posting about how they "forgot" their credit card bill or insurance renewal etc and so for these types there certainly is an advantage in having DD and automatic insurance renewal etc which would very much fly in the face of saying there isnt ANYONE that can benefit from the security that a DD creates.

And as a hands up and an admission that even though I am here I am not perfect, even I forgot to pay one of my cards this month. Dont know how, transferred the funds for it into current/ checking account to make the payment but seemingly didnt then transfer it on to the card company. Thankfully spotted it today and so had time to pay before the deadline but were there a DD on there then it wouldnt have been a risk, especially if it operates as per the Barclaycard ones where the DD is reduced by any early payments.

baccarat_king

I agree with the concept of direct debit for recurring small payments (mobile phone, cable, electricity, monthly insurance); I'm not a fan for variable large payments (like AMEX). If your assertion, is that most people (around here) have very small AMEX bills, then perhaps that would apply. But, direct debit of a credit card still does not protect you from fraud that "might" be authorized.

Imagine, you are away on this "no contact with the universe for six weeks holiday," and at some point, let's call it week #4 there is a large charge that is authorized by AMEX, but is fraudulent. Let's call it a 7.000€ charge. If you have direct debit, it's going to be debited automatically the next month (while still on your holiday). How do you prevent this from happening? Fraud occurs all the time. Having credit cards sitting out there with either (a) large credit lines or (b) "no credit limit" leaves you quite exposed if you are not reviewing your accounts and you have direct debit.

So, now, you get home after your long holiday; and not only is there a LARGE fraudulent charge on your AMEX, it's now also been deducted from your bank account. Sort of a lose-lose situation, if you ask me.

Astaroth

My assertion is around most people, as I stated, not explicitly the people on here.

Again I also did not state you were somewhere with no ability to be contacted but if we carry on your line that you are somewhere with no ability to be contacted how do you, without a DD both (a) spot the fraud and (b) make the appropriate payment on the non-fraud elements?

Now going back to my scenario of simply being on a long holiday and maybe not wanting to spend a day in the hotel room checking all your accounts, moving money from account A to B to C to pay D etc. If you're going the "lazy" route of using DDs then you probably also have the lazy option of having weekly balance text messages at which point in your scenario you have 3-4 text messages come through showing your balance to be €7,000 above what you were expecting and assuming you dont have an assistant/ wife/ mistress with a secondary card who's prone to making those sorts of levels of purchases that would presumably be the trigger to go online and check?

Secondly, just because you are paying by DD doesnt stop statements coming through or relieve you of the need to check them. It just means you just need to spend one day checking them and not one day checking them and a second date at the 11th hour logging in to pay it. If you leave it to the 11th hour to both check and pay it then, depending on the card and their processes it may be too late for the fraudulent transaction to be removed from the bill prior to the payment being due etc.

gum

Thanks for the info. Appreciated. ^