Lumpylump76

30 transactions a month just means milk, eggs, bread are 3 separate transactions. Oh that coffee and scone from Starbucks? Separate checks please.

teammjs

Sent a referral to my wife for the SPG Personal a few weeks ago (planning to do an AOR in about a month at the time) with an expiration date of October.

The referral e-mail clearly lays out the "more than 12 months" in the bottom of the e-mail, with nothing even about the "you may not be eligible" vague language we've seen.

However tonight when she clocks through to the offer, if you click on the T&Cs on the website, the same new "never had" language pops up.

Tempted to have her roll the dice and argue that she received a specific offer if she didn't get the bonus, but it sounds like getting anyone at Amex a) with authority and b) willingness to give points in a case like contrasting T&Cs is almost nil these days.

I've had several Amex cards I've held for years and used to maintain a relationship, but if I can't get new products, then I'm about to cancel and go with Chase.

teammjs

Wow, can't believe nobody is really worked up over the fact that the hammer came down early. I had some cards planned for a mini-AOR next month. Oh well.

OK, so assuming the worst is here, the question now becomes this: How does Amex determine if you've had the card before?

I'm going to post a theory...if you enter your SSN and Zip code in their application check section of their website, you can see cards you've applied for over the years. In my case, there's a long cancelled personal card there from 2011 (the oldest date showing) even though I've had some before that. They do have everything since then, but why stop at 2011?

I don't think it's defaulting to something like "show last X applications", based on what was showing (and not) for some family members.

Perhaps, THIS is what Amex is using to determine eligibility (i.e. have you had the card before)? Yes, I know a human can scour a credit report and forensically determine what cards you've had that are still in your credit report. But it's going to be an automated process to tag new applications based on coding that determines whether you have had the card before.

At some point, the cost for Amex to retroactively go back and search for say a Gold card from 6, 7, 8 years ago is more prohibitive than stopping churners. There are too many years and too much changes to technology, codes, systems, databases etc.

And yes there are some possible issues-- Amex can see your oldest card and backdates new cards, 12 month rule has been based on closing date, but application date (which is what the check application database shows).

I'm just putting out a theory that churning may be possible, and using the check application status BEFORE applying may yield an answer to whether Amex still sees you with that card.

mia

We also need to think about American Express's internal definition of the "same" card. Nearly all of the products are periodically refreshed, and may be considered new. In some instances this is obvious because the name changes: Rewards Gold was replaced by Rewards Gold Plus was replaced by Premier Rewards Gold. In other instances it has been subtle, when the SPG credit card changed from Platinum to the current Red design this was treated as a new product.

American Express's house style is ambiguity. Their practices frequently depart from a literal reading of published policy. They are not going to draw a bright line and tell us precisely what they will permit, because it's not in their interest to do so.

UA Fan

Looks like it started. Or rather gone back to the old days. Wonder if Amex decided to do it early because it got leaked out? Didn't want a bunch of last minute churners.

et_phonehome

When reading through the T&Cs of Everyday card I noticed:

"If we identify you as currently having an American Express® Card account, you may not be eligible for this welcome bonus offer. This offer is also not available to applicants who have or have had this product."

How are we to know whether we may or may not be eligible for bonus?

sdsearch

When I log into my Amex account, it not only shows my open cards, but the last card of each type that I've ever had before but since close, including a Gold card which I last had about 5 years ago IIRC.

No other bank in my experience shows cancelled cards online for as long as Amex does.

Whether it'll continue to show them for decades, I dunno. But it sure keeps them around for many years!

Now, of course, they may create a different definition of "lifetime". For example, Citi uses terms which imply "if you have or ever had this card before", but in actuality they only look back (12 to) 18 (to 26) months since the last application (cancellation not required) for personal AA cards, and don't even look at whether you still have it! I'm not saying Amex is going to be like Citi in this respect, but I simply give that as an example that what the wording is and what the actual implementation is are not always the same.

But before we wonder what they will do, let's try to figure out what they did before. This polciy of one year since cancellation, that was a fairly new policy that only existed for a few years. Before that, as I recall, it was a similarly phrased "if you ever had this card before", and the only loophole was that if the new bonus was greater than the bonus you got before, you would be eligible only for the difference in bonuses. Well, how far back did they look then, does anyone know?

et_phonehome

This seems to be 1 bonus per person, period. Not per card.

mia

The first sentence is not new. As written it gives American Express the flexibility to deny a bonus to anyone who currently has any card. A very few people have reported that this policy has been enforced as written, but more have found that the following sentence is more important. That part of the terms is new, and no one knows how American Express will apply it.

If you want an Everyday card, apply online using a Private or Incognito browser window, don't provide any information about existing card accounts during the application process, spend $1,000, and let us know if your receive the bonus. The only way we will learn is by testing.

teammjs

Good points, Mia. The fact that cards are in someone's account for years MAY be a limiting factor. At least we know between that and the ones you can see using their website to check application status (which is more like a recent history of what dates you applied for cards), there are a couple of theories that can be tested.

Two other points we should consider:

1) They may be putting in language ahead of when they turn it "on" in the coding. Therefore, someone may be successful now (and now would be a good time to try!), but possibly things change around May 1. If Amex was smart, they'd put the restrictive language in and just not enforce it until they have everything worked out on the IT side.

2) People who hold ZERO Amex cards at time of application AND don't register their cards through old User ID and password *may* be more successful since Amex doesn't have a direct connection with them anymore. In this case, Amex would presumably have to query older data tables, but my guess is that they'll be reluctant/unable to catch people based on SSN alone after at least a couple years, since that's a huge hacker security risk they could pay dearly for.

beachfan

I'm one of those denied the SPG business card signup bonus because of having it before (but not having it within 12 months).

So for me, it just documents existing procedure.

teammjs

What was the reason Amex used? Were you holding another business card? What were the T&Cs? When was this?

I thought the business cards they were a little looser with-- e.g. they don't have the "lifetime" language on those currently, just the personal cards.

uszkanni

Just signed up for a targeted Blue->Business Plat upgrade offer (50,000/$5K/3 mo.). I closed a business Gold just over a year ago and the rep said I would qualify for the bonus offer. We'll see.

rambo

My SO applied for Amex Business Plat (100k targeted offer) a few weeks back and got approved. The CSR confirmed the bonus, will complete spending in a week or so. SO had a Amex Bus Plat in the past.
I applied for BRG and Hilton card 1 week back and CSR confirmed the bonus for those as well. I have 4 other Amex card, so certainly not a new Amex customer.
Let us see if they honor all those sign up bonuses.

unkn0wns0ldier

QQ: I'm a newbie so I was wondering if I should signup for both the business and personal SPG Card before this May 1st deadline. My original plan was to see if they offer the 30K bonus this summer to apply for the personal and business to get 60K SPG points then after one year cancel the business one so my credit score doesn't take a hit. Any suggestions? I greatly appreciate it.