Oct 28, 2012, 8:27 pm
Last edit by: Microwave
Moderator Wikipost
For AA's announcement of their new One-Way Flex Awards, see: http://www.aa.com/i18n/amrcorp/newsr...FlexAwards.jsp
For AA's FAQ on the new One-Way Flex Awards, including the new stopover rule, see: http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?...award_faqs.jsp
Note that free stopovers have been eliminated as of 8 April 2014, so that portion of this discussion is no longer current.
/AA Moderator Team
For AA's announcement of their new One-Way Flex Awards, see: http://www.aa.com/i18n/amrcorp/newsr...FlexAwards.jsp
For AA's FAQ on the new One-Way Flex Awards, including the new stopover rule, see: http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?...award_faqs.jsp
Q: Do one-way awards include any stopovers?
A: Awards between North America and Europe, India, Asia, and Central / South America allow a stopover at the North American gateway. However, other one-way awards do not allow stopovers.
A: Awards between North America and Europe, India, Asia, and Central / South America allow a stopover at the North American gateway. However, other one-way awards do not allow stopovers.
/AA Moderator Team
New One-Way Flex Award / Awards, <NO> Stopover Rule, and Booking Engine (May 9, 2009)
May 10, 2009, 4:34 pm
#106
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
I am surprised that no one is talking about the WAY the rules were changed. Isn't this the first time AA changed the rules FIRST, and THEN told us about it? For example, last summer, they gave us a few months advance notice when they changed how OneWorld award routings were calculated.
The only hint we had this time was award bookings cannot be held pass May 8 due to major system update.
OTOH, the changes were among those speculated so they were not a total surprise.
May 10, 2009, 4:47 pm
#107
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LI, NY
Programs: AA PLT, AAdv since Day One
Posts: 2,682
I understand the frustration with those of you who were able to do stopovers on awards in the past. But, isn't this new restriction about no international stopovers the same restriction there is now on upgrades? 
It appears to me the (no) stopover rule is now more consistent with upgrades. Maybe even a little better since you can apparently stopover at a domestic gateway on the award travel.
I think this is all about getting getting miles off their books and giving those with only 10's of thousands of miles more options to use before people say "why bother" if they keep having fewer options to use them. Let's face it, the FTers here are not representative of "the masses" when it comes to using miles.
It appears to me the (no) stopover rule is now more consistent with upgrades. Maybe even a little better since you can apparently stopover at a domestic gateway on the award travel.
I think this is all about getting getting miles off their books and giving those with only 10's of thousands of miles more options to use before people say "why bother" if they keep having fewer options to use them. Let's face it, the FTers here are not representative of "the masses" when it comes to using miles.
May 10, 2009, 4:52 pm
#108
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ABQ & RNO
Programs: AA EXP 4MM, Piper Dakota, Admirals Club, Hyatt Glob, Hilton Gold, Wyndham Diamond
Posts: 1,426
I'm not sure the validity of this exercise. On AA.com (https://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do...ardDetails.jsp) it states:
Therefore, not being able to book an international stopover on AA.com does not necessarily preclude that it would be available by phone.
Therefore, not being able to book an international stopover on AA.com does not necessarily preclude that it would be available by phone.
May 10, 2009, 5:23 pm
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: STL
Programs: AA 2MM, AS MVP Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,966
Under the old rules, you can have only 1 stopover, on a r/t ticket but the stopover can be taken on either direction.
Now AA changed it to one-way ticket, it would be a major improvement to allow stopover on the one-way because now you would be getting more than before.
My feeling is, the changes are slightly negative to most people because most people do trips in a r/t fashion and a free stopover is much more useful than booking a r/t as 2 one-ways. Though the ability to mix awards is positive (improved availability).
Now AA changed it to one-way ticket, it would be a major improvement to allow stopover on the one-way because now you would be getting more than before.
My feeling is, the changes are slightly negative to most people because most people do trips in a r/t fashion and a free stopover is much more useful than booking a r/t as 2 one-ways. Though the ability to mix awards is positive (improved availability).
I haven't tried calling on this - I won't be booking for several months, and it might be possible to spend the night in L.A. by then. I don't really want to do anything on the stopover but get a good night's sleep, but the presence of a redeye makes an overnight a stopover rather than a connection.
Last edited by gemac; May 10, 2009 at 5:29 pm
May 10, 2009, 5:39 pm
#110
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cerritos, CA
Programs: AA Plat; HH Gold; Marriott Silver; UCLA Fan
Posts: 798
I am booking an open-jaw trip for next year using miles. Outbound is LAX to GIG (Rio de Janeiro) early next April to begin a trans-Atlantic cruise which will end up in Spain, which I just booked one-way under the new program for 20,000 miles. In a few weeks, I will book the return from Spain when the 329-day window opens up. Will these count as two separate trips, so if I have to cancel, will I have to pay a re-deposit fee twice to re-gain my miles, or can I "merge" the two locator numbers into one PNR once I have booked my return flight and be liable for only one fee if I do cancel?
May 10, 2009, 5:41 pm
#111
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,519
Has anyone actually seen the new rules for these awards?
Aren't the old rules still posted as current on aa.com?
Perhaps this whole no-stopover business is a result of the software update kinks and not actual policy?
I just find it weird that they change the rules around awards but decide not to tell anyone what they are.
Aren't the old rules still posted as current on aa.com?
Perhaps this whole no-stopover business is a result of the software update kinks and not actual policy?
I just find it weird that they change the rules around awards but decide not to tell anyone what they are.
May 10, 2009, 5:49 pm
#112
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,632
An agent told me today that they were doing a "soft rollout", but while that is OK for good changes (one-way fares), it would be remarkably discourteous of AA to implement a bad change (such as adding luggage check-in fees, or eliminating award stopovers) secretly and without advance notice.
May 10, 2009, 5:49 pm
#113
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SWO
Programs: AA 2MM LTP;Marriott Platinum
Posts: 174
Cheapest RTW?
Not sure I would ever do this, but it looks like this may open up a cheaper "true" RTW option (assuming my math is correct):
NA->EUR (20K off peak)
EUR->Asia 1 (35k)
Asia 1->NA (25k off peak)
Total using 1-way MileSAAver + All-Partner Awards: 80k miles cost
ex: DFW-LHR-NRT-DFW = 17152 miles
As a OneWorld Award OW100Y = 100k miles cost
If you want to throw in India or the ME:
NA->EUR (20K off peak)
EUR->India/ME (20K)
India/ME->Asia 1 (22.5k)
Asia 1->NA (25k off peak)
Total using 1-way MileSAAver + All-Partner Awards: 87.5k miles cost
ex: dfw-lhr-del-nrt-dfw = 19046 miles
As a OneWorld Award OW100Y = 100k miles cost
A OneWorld Award obviously opens up a lot more stopover potentials (although if you put in many stopovers you are probably going to jump the trip distance over 20000 miles and to a OW120Y award). However, if someone had limited time and wanted to do a "true" RTW this looks like a good option (whether this is a good use of your miles is for you to decide).
Now, if they were to allow one stopover per one-way you could see that this could undercut the OW Award structure for some purposes. It would be nice if they still allowed stopovers on a RT, but I can see why they don't want to allow them on a One-Way.
NA->EUR (20K off peak)
EUR->Asia 1 (35k)
Asia 1->NA (25k off peak)
Total using 1-way MileSAAver + All-Partner Awards: 80k miles cost
ex: DFW-LHR-NRT-DFW = 17152 miles
As a OneWorld Award OW100Y = 100k miles cost
If you want to throw in India or the ME:
NA->EUR (20K off peak)
EUR->India/ME (20K)
India/ME->Asia 1 (22.5k)
Asia 1->NA (25k off peak)
Total using 1-way MileSAAver + All-Partner Awards: 87.5k miles cost
ex: dfw-lhr-del-nrt-dfw = 19046 miles
As a OneWorld Award OW100Y = 100k miles cost
A OneWorld Award obviously opens up a lot more stopover potentials (although if you put in many stopovers you are probably going to jump the trip distance over 20000 miles and to a OW120Y award). However, if someone had limited time and wanted to do a "true" RTW this looks like a good option (whether this is a good use of your miles is for you to decide).
Now, if they were to allow one stopover per one-way you could see that this could undercut the OW Award structure for some purposes. It would be nice if they still allowed stopovers on a RT, but I can see why they don't want to allow them on a One-Way.
Last edited by TULOKCICT; May 10, 2009 at 6:08 pm
May 10, 2009, 6:50 pm
#115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
I am booking an open-jaw trip for next year using miles. Outbound is LAX to GIG (Rio de Janeiro) early next April to begin a trans-Atlantic cruise which will end up in Spain, which I just booked one-way under the new program for 20,000 miles. In a few weeks, I will book the return from Spain when the 329-day window opens up. Will these count as two separate trips, so if I have to cancel, will I have to pay a re-deposit fee twice to re-gain my miles, or can I "merge" the two locator numbers into one PNR once I have booked my return flight and be liable for only one fee if I do cancel?
In this case you would have 2 PNRs, that would be my guess, and you would not be able to "merge" them.
May 10, 2009, 7:02 pm
#116
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA ExP, Hyatt Diamond, MR Platinum, PC Platinum, SPG Platinum, HH Gold
Posts: 498
I dont understand your logic about the pay portion.
Isn't it in most cases, a r/t is cheaper than a one-way, on a PAY TICKET? Also the days of the week always have pricing differentials among them - hence the Tue/Wed always the cheapest of the days to travel, and the weekends always more expensive.
The current changes, AFAIK, are all related to Awards, not related to Pay Ticket.
Unless you have found new information that AA now is going the way QF does, that all flights are priced at one-way... Otherwise, what you have found is nothing unusual and you just mix oranges with apples.
Isn't it in most cases, a r/t is cheaper than a one-way, on a PAY TICKET? Also the days of the week always have pricing differentials among them - hence the Tue/Wed always the cheapest of the days to travel, and the weekends always more expensive.
The current changes, AFAIK, are all related to Awards, not related to Pay Ticket.
Unless you have found new information that AA now is going the way QF does, that all flights are priced at one-way... Otherwise, what you have found is nothing unusual and you just mix oranges with apples.
May 10, 2009, 7:02 pm
#117
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
I would agree with your analysis. Here is the way this impacts me. I book (fairly regularly) STL-OGG R/T, sometimes paid, sometimes on award tix. I dislike (intensely) red-eye flights. In the past, I have been able to book STL-LAX-OGG(X)-LAX(X)-STL. There is a nice afternoon flight that leaves OGG at 2 P.M., arrives in LAX at 10:20. The other AA flights from OGG are to LAX departing 9:10 P.M. arriving LAX 5:15 A.M. and to DFW departing 4:55 P.M. arriving 5:00 A.M. In the past, I had no problem booking (either as an award or as a paid ticket) the 2 P.M. from OGG-LAX, getting off in LAX, checking into a hotel, and going LAX-STL the next morning. Now, the only flights that appear LAX-STL are redeyes connecting in DFW (departing 12:10) or ORD (departing 11:55). Either way, a sleepless night. It appears to do this the way I prefer would now cost me an extra 12,500 miles (47,500 rather than 35,000).
Our other favorite routing is MIA/SFO/YVR/DFW/FLL so we can visit families in SFO and YVR. This would cost 37.5K now.
May 10, 2009, 7:03 pm
#118
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,377
Even under the old rule, you cannot book it as open jaw because the distance of open jaw is longer than the legs you fly - between GIG and Spain (I assume it is BCN), certainly is longer than the distance between BCN and JFK (your port of entry back to USA) Open jaw has to be the shortest leg.
The ability to book trips like this on two PNRs provides great flexibility in booking timeframes (e.g., getting around advance booking limitations and maximum length of stay requirements).
May 10, 2009, 7:09 pm
#119
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
But now with the one-way booking, it would be no problem to book it on one PNR (priced separately of course). The only thing preventing that is waiting for the return date to open up. It would be possible, though, to anticipate the routing, book a dummy return trip, and then use free date/time changes to get the desired final itinerary.
The ability to book trips like this on two PNRs provides great flexibility in booking timeframes (e.g., getting around advance booking limitations and maximum length of stay requirements).
The ability to book trips like this on two PNRs provides great flexibility in booking timeframes (e.g., getting around advance booking limitations and maximum length of stay requirements).
If 2 PNRs are involved, then the cancellation and redeposit miles fee would be 2x. That was OP's question on the ticket he would book to accommodate a Transatlantic cruise.
Since we never book anything further out than a few months, the inbound is out of the booking window never is an issue for us. I dont see many people would just book the outbound eventhough the inbound has no availability, and hoping the availability would eventually show up, unless they are among the 330 days crowd. It is my belief the 330 day booking is a myth. Additional availability often opens up a few months before travel, and in some reported cases, the premium cabins become available weeks or days before travel.
The maximum length stay requirement being nullified by the one-way booking benefits very few people - just how many folks would use an award to go to a place where they would stay longer than a year?!
Last edited by Happy; May 10, 2009 at 7:16 pm