Australian man "crushed" in economy seat 14 hours sues AA for injuries
May 10, 2017, 2:43 pm
#121
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Does Non Rev count?
Posts: 587
Is it the words themselves, or the acronym itself, that you object to?
Honestly, it is the best and most appropriate description for passengers that need more space than what is provided in a typical Economy class seat. I also find it far more appropriate than the use of the term "obese," which I've seen often I this thread.
We all should agree and ensure were aligned on this point. This conversation and AA's policies and practices are NOT about fat shaming nor is it about obesity. Obesity is undoubtedly related, and a relevant physical/medical condition in the context of the conversation, it's not all this is about and not the only driver of one being a "POS."
There are probably several cases in which someone who is not obese is a passenger of size. I am a 6', close to 200 pound male, my weight being a product of my muscle mass. On some aircraft (read AA's 787s)' I am a. Passenger of size (or close to it). My shoulders are broad, and I probably come close to encroaching on the shoulder space of others when in Y. People likely never look at me as such, because of my appearance and how/where I carry the weight. I've sat next to guys of a similar size to mine (most memorably being a LAX-PHL redeye in a middle seat in Y, with a guy of the typical "bodybuilder" physique), and both of us are usually somewhat uncomfortable after more than a few hours.
Honestly, it is the best and most appropriate description for passengers that need more space than what is provided in a typical Economy class seat. I also find it far more appropriate than the use of the term "obese," which I've seen often I this thread.
We all should agree and ensure were aligned on this point. This conversation and AA's policies and practices are NOT about fat shaming nor is it about obesity. Obesity is undoubtedly related, and a relevant physical/medical condition in the context of the conversation, it's not all this is about and not the only driver of one being a "POS."
There are probably several cases in which someone who is not obese is a passenger of size. I am a 6', close to 200 pound male, my weight being a product of my muscle mass. On some aircraft (read AA's 787s)' I am a. Passenger of size (or close to it). My shoulders are broad, and I probably come close to encroaching on the shoulder space of others when in Y. People likely never look at me as such, because of my appearance and how/where I carry the weight. I've sat next to guys of a similar size to mine (most memorably being a LAX-PHL redeye in a middle seat in Y, with a guy of the typical "bodybuilder" physique), and both of us are usually somewhat uncomfortable after more than a few hours.
Reading about these issues makes me glad I sit in the pointy end of the airplane. While some of the ground staff and flight crew certainly should not be in a public facing position, the vast majority of the ground and in-flight crew truly love their jobs and want to ensure safety and comfort, but it can be one tough job sometimes! But I digress, as I'm getting off topic. Back to the subject at hand...
May 10, 2017, 4:19 pm
#122
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lax
Posts: 3,886
As I read it the suit is not about PoS or the seat being to small.
It's about the passenger asking the FA to accommodate his medical condition and the FA telling him "tough luck". He even provided a solution (jump seat) he would accept.
All they needed to do is empathize and help out.
It's about the passenger asking the FA to accommodate his medical condition and the FA telling him "tough luck". He even provided a solution (jump seat) he would accept.
All they needed to do is empathize and help out.
May 17, 2017, 4:03 pm
#124
Join Date: May 2010
Location: STL
Programs: UA 1K; WN A-List; HH Diamond; Marriott Gold; National EE
Posts: 194
I think Southwest has the better of the solutions out there to the Customer of Size issues because they were forced to figure it out (thanks to Kevin Smith).
The WN FAQ is linked below. To paraphrase, COS can buy an additional seat in advance through the website or via phone. At the gate, the COS will receive a "Seat Reserved" document to prevent others from sitting in the extra seat. WN allows a full refund for this extra ticket after travel-- regardless if the flight is oversold.
Alternatively, the COS can address his/her need with the GA but by doing it this way, the passenger takes a chance he/she can not be accommodated if the flight is sold out. They define the armrest as being the boundary and failure on the COS's part to address the issue in advance can lead to that passenger being IDBed/removed if no extra space is available.
I think a blanket full refund of the extra seat is a bit overly generous, but allowing a refund if the flight is not sold out would be perfectly fair. On the legacy airlines with assigned seating, you would need to find a way to prevent abuse by non-COS pax. Perhaps having to check in with the GA (like WN does) to prevent the adjacent seat from being assigned might be enough to discourage this.
https://www.southwest.com/html/custo...ra_seat_policy
The WN FAQ is linked below. To paraphrase, COS can buy an additional seat in advance through the website or via phone. At the gate, the COS will receive a "Seat Reserved" document to prevent others from sitting in the extra seat. WN allows a full refund for this extra ticket after travel-- regardless if the flight is oversold.
Alternatively, the COS can address his/her need with the GA but by doing it this way, the passenger takes a chance he/she can not be accommodated if the flight is sold out. They define the armrest as being the boundary and failure on the COS's part to address the issue in advance can lead to that passenger being IDBed/removed if no extra space is available.
I think a blanket full refund of the extra seat is a bit overly generous, but allowing a refund if the flight is not sold out would be perfectly fair. On the legacy airlines with assigned seating, you would need to find a way to prevent abuse by non-COS pax. Perhaps having to check in with the GA (like WN does) to prevent the adjacent seat from being assigned might be enough to discourage this.
https://www.southwest.com/html/custo...ra_seat_policy
May 18, 2017, 8:30 am
#125
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam
Posts: 3,445
How about pax (PoS or not) can purchase a seat with a blocked adjacent seat at a cost of +50%. Essentially it's like Club Europe products. Any pax that can't fit into a regular seat must buy one of these or an F seat.
May 18, 2017, 8:53 am
#126
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,222
My issue would be limiting the discounted extra seat (or the refund on the extra seat) to "real" PsOS. How do you determine whether someone qualifies? How do you do it fairly? What about very tall people who need to spread their knees, or broad-shouldered people? Is it even fair to limit it to a sub-set of passengers? Possibly not something the airlines want to get involved in, though WN's policy as posted above certainly raises those questions.