Got on Standby then kicked off
Feb 21, 2017, 4:10 pm
#1
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Got on Standby then kicked off
So a few weeks ago, I was on standby for DFW-PHL for a 2PM flight. The 5pm flight got canceled, and I was on the 8pm. It was around the time a snowstorm was heading towards the northeast.
I was the last person to snag a standby seat (and there were over 50 ppl on the list). Flight attendant gate checked by bag and I headed to my seat. The flight got delayed about 20 minutes due to a mechanical problem, and that apparently let another passenger to make it to the gate from their delayed connection.
Short story, the FA told me I had to deplane because the person who's seat I took was now here (made it because of our delay) and that I would have to get my gate checked bag in PHL once I land on my original flight.
As you may have guessed, I was furious as they gate checked my bag, and there was a chance my 8PM flight would have got canceled. Luckily due to the delay, they managed to have some people find my bag and return it to me and my 8PM flight didn't get canceled (but delayed 3 hours).
I figured at the point they take my bag and give me my seat, the other passenger loses out, or was the FA in the right to deplane me and allow the original passenger their seat?
I was the last person to snag a standby seat (and there were over 50 ppl on the list). Flight attendant gate checked by bag and I headed to my seat. The flight got delayed about 20 minutes due to a mechanical problem, and that apparently let another passenger to make it to the gate from their delayed connection.
Short story, the FA told me I had to deplane because the person who's seat I took was now here (made it because of our delay) and that I would have to get my gate checked bag in PHL once I land on my original flight.
As you may have guessed, I was furious as they gate checked my bag, and there was a chance my 8PM flight would have got canceled. Luckily due to the delay, they managed to have some people find my bag and return it to me and my 8PM flight didn't get canceled (but delayed 3 hours).
I figured at the point they take my bag and give me my seat, the other passenger loses out, or was the FA in the right to deplane me and allow the original passenger their seat?
Feb 21, 2017, 7:55 pm
#5
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From what I've heard, standby isn't safe until takeoff. It could be a late arriving passenger or weight and balance. Nonrev's can have a hard time with this.
Feb 22, 2017, 8:00 am
#6
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You were on standby to take someones seat on the plane if they do not show up. The person ends up showing up before the plane leaves and therefore is entitled to their seat. It's not like your seat was given to some third party. You can also be bumped down on the standby list if a higher level elite makes it to the same list.
Feb 22, 2017, 8:13 am
#7
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I would expect airlines to boot a nonrev (NRSA) in this case, but I'm not so sure about a revenue customer, although that might depend on status of both the original passenger and the standby.
Feb 22, 2017, 8:16 am
#8
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I've been on the other side of this a long time ago when I was still a college student.
My previous flight was delayed, I get to the gate less than 5 minutes before departure for my next flight. The Gate Agent says where have you been? I said my previous flight was delayed. She asked me to wait a minute because they gave my ticket away. I felt bad for the person they took out, she had not seated yet though, she was still on the jetbridge.
My previous flight was delayed, I get to the gate less than 5 minutes before departure for my next flight. The Gate Agent says where have you been? I said my previous flight was delayed. She asked me to wait a minute because they gave my ticket away. I felt bad for the person they took out, she had not seated yet though, she was still on the jetbridge.
Feb 22, 2017, 9:08 am
#10
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Actually once they moved you to confirmed it would be an IDB to force you to be removed. Once the passenger didn't present for boarding at T-X they gave up their seat. Once you then we're confirmed, you held a confirmed reservation and ticket. At that point it was 100% inappropriate to remove you.
Feb 22, 2017, 9:58 am
#11
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Actually once they moved you to confirmed it would be an IDB to force you to be removed. Once the passenger didn't present for boarding at T-X they gave up their seat. Once you then we're confirmed, you held a confirmed reservation and ticket. At that point it was 100% inappropriate to remove you.
Feb 22, 2017, 10:04 am
#12
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DOT IDB compensation does not apply - this does not go either way
OP was a standby passenger and remains a standby passenger, simply at some point with a seat assignment. At no point does standby mean "confirmed reservation" unless AA reissues the ticket. The same is true on DL and UA and that is to cover exactly this situation and to avoid the IDB claim discussed above. I stand corrected if OP has a reissued ticket (which would shock me because there is no need for it).
This was all expressly negotiated as part of DOT's IDB rule. DOT did not want to discourage carriers from using practical judgment.
The relevant section is cut & pasted below, but you can read the entire set of definitions online if you really want to. You can also go back to the early days of IDB and find the comments filed with the original rules proposals which yielded the definitions as they stand.
The bottom line is that if the aircraft had pushed and AA chose to return to the gate solely to pick up the misconnecting passenger because he was an HVC/VIP, it could have done so, removed OP, and not have violated the IDB rule.
Confirmed reserved space means space on a specific date and on a specific flight and class of service of a carrier which has been requested by a passenger, including a passenger with a “zero fare ticket,” and which the carrier or its agent has verified, by appropriate notation on the ticket or in any other manner provided therefore by the carrier, as being reserved for the accommodation of the passenger. 14 CFR 250.1
OP was a standby passenger and remains a standby passenger, simply at some point with a seat assignment. At no point does standby mean "confirmed reservation" unless AA reissues the ticket. The same is true on DL and UA and that is to cover exactly this situation and to avoid the IDB claim discussed above. I stand corrected if OP has a reissued ticket (which would shock me because there is no need for it).
This was all expressly negotiated as part of DOT's IDB rule. DOT did not want to discourage carriers from using practical judgment.
The relevant section is cut & pasted below, but you can read the entire set of definitions online if you really want to. You can also go back to the early days of IDB and find the comments filed with the original rules proposals which yielded the definitions as they stand.
The bottom line is that if the aircraft had pushed and AA chose to return to the gate solely to pick up the misconnecting passenger because he was an HVC/VIP, it could have done so, removed OP, and not have violated the IDB rule.
Confirmed reserved space means space on a specific date and on a specific flight and class of service of a carrier which has been requested by a passenger, including a passenger with a “zero fare ticket,” and which the carrier or its agent has verified, by appropriate notation on the ticket or in any other manner provided therefore by the carrier, as being reserved for the accommodation of the passenger. 14 CFR 250.1
Feb 22, 2017, 10:23 am
#13
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DOT IDB compensation does not apply - this does not go either way
OP was a standby passenger and remains a standby passenger, simply at some point with a seat assignment. At no point does standby mean "confirmed reservation" unless AA reissues the ticket. The same is true on DL and UA and that is to cover exactly this situation and to avoid the IDB claim discussed above. I stand corrected if OP has a reissued ticket (which would shock me because there is no need for it).
This was all expressly negotiated as part of DOT's IDB rule. DOT did not want to discourage carriers from using practical judgment.
The relevant section is cut & pasted below, but you can read the entire set of definitions online if you really want to. You can also go back to the early days of IDB and find the comments filed with the original rules proposals which yielded the definitions as they stand.
The bottom line is that if the aircraft had pushed and AA chose to return to the gate solely to pick up the misconnecting passenger because he was an HVC/VIP, it could have done so, removed OP, and not have violated the IDB rule.
Confirmed reserved space means space on a specific date and on a specific flight and class of service of a carrier which has been requested by a passenger, including a passenger with a “zero fare ticket,” and which the carrier or its agent has verified, by appropriate notation on the ticket or in any other manner provided therefore by the carrier, as being reserved for the accommodation of the passenger. 14 CFR 250.1
OP was a standby passenger and remains a standby passenger, simply at some point with a seat assignment. At no point does standby mean "confirmed reservation" unless AA reissues the ticket. The same is true on DL and UA and that is to cover exactly this situation and to avoid the IDB claim discussed above. I stand corrected if OP has a reissued ticket (which would shock me because there is no need for it).
This was all expressly negotiated as part of DOT's IDB rule. DOT did not want to discourage carriers from using practical judgment.
The relevant section is cut & pasted below, but you can read the entire set of definitions online if you really want to. You can also go back to the early days of IDB and find the comments filed with the original rules proposals which yielded the definitions as they stand.
The bottom line is that if the aircraft had pushed and AA chose to return to the gate solely to pick up the misconnecting passenger because he was an HVC/VIP, it could have done so, removed OP, and not have violated the IDB rule.
Confirmed reserved space means space on a specific date and on a specific flight and class of service of a carrier which has been requested by a passenger, including a passenger with a “zero fare ticket,” and which the carrier or its agent has verified, by appropriate notation on the ticket or in any other manner provided therefore by the carrier, as being reserved for the accommodation of the passenger. 14 CFR 250.1
Feb 22, 2017, 10:31 am
#14
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It's not an argument.
But, if OP wants to file an IDB claim, have it denied, then file a comlaint with DOT and have that denied and then sue, he is free to do so.
Of course the ticket doesn't have to be reissued. But, OP somehow has to obtain "confirmed reserved space" and when OP files his claim for IDB and then his complaint with DOT, the AA records will show that he never had that.
In fact, OP's own statement in plain English shows that he never had that. In his words, "I was on the 8 PM." This was the 2 PM. Sometimes these things get caught up in legalese. Not this time.
But, if OP wants to file an IDB claim, have it denied, then file a comlaint with DOT and have that denied and then sue, he is free to do so.
Of course the ticket doesn't have to be reissued. But, OP somehow has to obtain "confirmed reserved space" and when OP files his claim for IDB and then his complaint with DOT, the AA records will show that he never had that.
In fact, OP's own statement in plain English shows that he never had that. In his words, "I was on the 8 PM." This was the 2 PM. Sometimes these things get caught up in legalese. Not this time.
Feb 22, 2017, 10:53 am
#15
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DOT IDB compensation does not apply - this does not go either way
OP was a standby passenger and remains a standby passenger, simply at some point with a seat assignment. At no point does standby mean "confirmed reservation" unless AA reissues the ticket. The same is true on DL and UA and that is to cover exactly this situation and to avoid the IDB claim discussed above. I stand corrected if OP has a reissued ticket (which would shock me because there is no need for it).
This was all expressly negotiated as part of DOT's IDB rule. DOT did not want to discourage carriers from using practical judgment.
The relevant section is cut & pasted below, but you can read the entire set of definitions online if you really want to. You can also go back to the early days of IDB and find the comments filed with the original rules proposals which yielded the definitions as they stand.
The bottom line is that if the aircraft had pushed and AA chose to return to the gate solely to pick up the misconnecting passenger because he was an HVC/VIP, it could have done so, removed OP, and not have violated the IDB rule.
Confirmed reserved space means space on a specific date and on a specific flight and class of service of a carrier which has been requested by a passenger, including a passenger with a “zero fare ticket,” and which the carrier or its agent has verified, by appropriate notation on the ticket or in any other manner provided therefore by the carrier, as being reserved for the accommodation of the passenger. 14 CFR 250.1
OP was a standby passenger and remains a standby passenger, simply at some point with a seat assignment. At no point does standby mean "confirmed reservation" unless AA reissues the ticket. The same is true on DL and UA and that is to cover exactly this situation and to avoid the IDB claim discussed above. I stand corrected if OP has a reissued ticket (which would shock me because there is no need for it).
This was all expressly negotiated as part of DOT's IDB rule. DOT did not want to discourage carriers from using practical judgment.
The relevant section is cut & pasted below, but you can read the entire set of definitions online if you really want to. You can also go back to the early days of IDB and find the comments filed with the original rules proposals which yielded the definitions as they stand.
The bottom line is that if the aircraft had pushed and AA chose to return to the gate solely to pick up the misconnecting passenger because he was an HVC/VIP, it could have done so, removed OP, and not have violated the IDB rule.
Confirmed reserved space means space on a specific date and on a specific flight and class of service of a carrier which has been requested by a passenger, including a passenger with a “zero fare ticket,” and which the carrier or its agent has verified, by appropriate notation on the ticket or in any other manner provided therefore by the carrier, as being reserved for the accommodation of the passenger. 14 CFR 250.1
This leads me to believe Often1 is correct. Even though I got on the plane with a seat, the GA didn't "confirm" it until later. It really depends on what your definition of Confirmed reserved space Is it when you get on the plane or when the GA actually does the switch over on the computer?
The OP should still complain through. Worse case, the OP will probably get some miles from AA. Best case, the OP does get IDB.