Oct 4, 2017, 2:33 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
AA Obligation for Awards Using AB / airberlin and NIKI / HG
as They Leave oneworld 27 Oct 2017 and AB Ceases Operations
oneworld has announced airberlin and NIKI leave oneworld
effective close of business 27 Oct 2017 link
as They Leave oneworld 27 Oct 2017 and AB Ceases Operations
oneworld has announced airberlin and NIKI leave oneworld
effective close of business 27 Oct 2017 link
airberlin filed for insolvency (bankruptcy) on 15 August 2017
airberlin discontinued longhaul operations 15 Oct 2017
- Leased A330s have been rehomed by their lessors with MH and EW
See One Mile at a Time here.
From AAdvantage Terms and Conditions (link): "Your flight awards are only valid for designated award destinations served at the time you use the ticket. In the event that American or an AAdvantage participating carrier ceases to serve a destination for which an award has been redeemed, American will redeposit the AAdvantage miles redeemed for that award into your account. (Without charging a redeposit fee - on-AA added note.)
Air Berlin long-haul shutting down completely link
POSTED BY SETH MILLER ON 25 SEPTEMBER 2017 IN NEWS, PAXEX
Air Berlin previously announced many long-haul route cuts effective over the next couple weeks. But the route network from Dusseldorf was mostly untouched. That changed today as the company set an 15 October 2017 date to wrap up the long-haul operations. (See link for more.)
POSTED BY SETH MILLER ON 25 SEPTEMBER 2017 IN NEWS, PAXEX
Air Berlin previously announced many long-haul route cuts effective over the next couple weeks. But the route network from Dusseldorf was mostly untouched. That changed today as the company set an 15 October 2017 date to wrap up the long-haul operations. (See link for more.)
• Adjustments to the airberlin schedule Link
airberlin will need to cease its long-haul flight operations by 15 October 2017, as the aircraft leasing companies are gradually withdrawing their Airbus A330 jets. The connection between Dusseldorf and Los Angeles has therefore been discontinued by 25 September 2017. Further cancellations will follow on 16 October 2017. On 29 September 2017, airberlin will discontinue services between Hamburg and Munich and between Cologne/Bonn and Munich.
• What long-haul flights will airberlin continue to operate and for how long?
airberlin will not operate to the Caribbean from Dusseldorf from 25 September 2017. This means that from that date, flights to Curaçao (the Netherlands Antilles), Cancun (Mexico), Havana and Varadero (Cuba) as well as Punta Cana and Puerto Plata (Dominican Republic) will be cancelled.
The connections between Berlin and Abu Dhabi, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco, as well as from Dusseldorf to Boston and Orlando will also be cancelled from 25 September 2017. airberlin regrets the inconvenience caused by these cancellations.
• Will the flight operation be continued by airberlin / NIKI?
Yes, the flight operations will continue. The published airberlin / NIKI schedule is valid. airberlin and NIKI will carry out the flights as published. Should changes be necessary, e.g. for operational reasons, we will inform accordingly.
• Is NIKI also insolvent?
No, as per August 15th 2017 NIKI is not affected by the insolvency. It is not intended for NIKI to file for insolvency. The flight operations will continue as planned.
(Be sure to watch for the status of NIKI as a one world affiliate and AA partner airline.)
(For passengers who booked their plane ticket directly with airberlin, the following applies: for tickets purchased after the insolvency filing on 15 August 2017, we will reimburse the purchase price free of charge. Passengers affected may submit any additional costs incurred via the website www.airberlin.com/complaint. Tickets that were booked before the insolvency filing cannot currently be reimbursed due to insolvency regulations. Rebookings on other airlines are not possible. - see link above or the FT airberlin forum)
Status: 28. September 2017
airberlin will need to cease its long-haul flight operations by 15 October 2017, as the aircraft leasing companies are gradually withdrawing their Airbus A330 jets. The connection between Dusseldorf and Los Angeles has therefore been discontinued by 25 September 2017. Further cancellations will follow on 16 October 2017. On 29 September 2017, airberlin will discontinue services between Hamburg and Munich and between Cologne/Bonn and Munich.
• What long-haul flights will airberlin continue to operate and for how long?
airberlin will not operate to the Caribbean from Dusseldorf from 25 September 2017. This means that from that date, flights to Curaçao (the Netherlands Antilles), Cancun (Mexico), Havana and Varadero (Cuba) as well as Punta Cana and Puerto Plata (Dominican Republic) will be cancelled.
The connections between Berlin and Abu Dhabi, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco, as well as from Dusseldorf to Boston and Orlando will also be cancelled from 25 September 2017. airberlin regrets the inconvenience caused by these cancellations.
• Will the flight operation be continued by airberlin / NIKI?
Yes, the flight operations will continue. The published airberlin / NIKI schedule is valid. airberlin and NIKI will carry out the flights as published. Should changes be necessary, e.g. for operational reasons, we will inform accordingly.
• Is NIKI also insolvent?
No, as per August 15th 2017 NIKI is not affected by the insolvency. It is not intended for NIKI to file for insolvency. The flight operations will continue as planned.
(Be sure to watch for the status of NIKI as a one world affiliate and AA partner airline.)
Status: 28. September 2017
AA award obligation as airberlin / NIKI depart oneworld / cease operations
Jul 26, 2016, 5:45 pm
#1
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,329
AA award obligation as airberlin / NIKI depart oneworld / cease operations
So the media is awash with reports that Lufthansa is buying AB's short-haul network. Not quite clear what happens with long-haul yet.
http://atwonline.com/airports-routes...rlin-eurowings
Question: Based on past experience, for those holding AA-issued award tickets on AB - especially with both long-haul and short-haul segments - how will AA handle a split/breakup/disappearance of AB?
Will they accommodate on AA/OW or is that usually a push?
http://atwonline.com/airports-routes...rlin-eurowings
Question: Based on past experience, for those holding AA-issued award tickets on AB - especially with both long-haul and short-haul segments - how will AA handle a split/breakup/disappearance of AB?
Will they accommodate on AA/OW or is that usually a push?
Jul 26, 2016, 5:47 pm
#2
Join Date: Jan 2011
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They should honor issued tickets...but if there are schedule changes, any adjustments may not be possible.
Jul 26, 2016, 6:54 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Jul 26, 2016, 7:11 pm
#4
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Posts: 2,170
So the media is awash with reports that Lufthansa is buying AB's short-haul network. Not quite clear what happens with long-haul yet.
http://atwonline.com/airports-routes...rlin-eurowings
Question: Based on past experience, for those holding AA-issued award tickets on AB - especially with both long-haul and short-haul segments - how will AA handle a split/breakup/disappearance of AB?
Will they accommodate on AA/OW or is that usually a push?
http://atwonline.com/airports-routes...rlin-eurowings
Question: Based on past experience, for those holding AA-issued award tickets on AB - especially with both long-haul and short-haul segments - how will AA handle a split/breakup/disappearance of AB?
Will they accommodate on AA/OW or is that usually a push?
That shouldn't really be an issue, since then you'd be connecting in Dusseldorf or Berlin (on account of all AB long haul flights being to one of those cities) and since this deal with Lufthansa (if it comes to fruition) won't include Dusseldorf and Berlin, those short haul flights would still be Airberlin.
Sep 27, 2016, 12:06 pm
#5
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 289
AA obligation for AA award if airberlin were to fold?
I've been thinking of using some AAdvantage miles to book a couple of seats on Air Berlin this summer. I know that Air Berlin face some financial challenges. What are AA's obligations if Air Berlin fold or fail to operate the announced service from SFO-Berlin?
Would they only rebook me if award space was available?
If they rebooked me on BA or Iberia would I have to pony up for the fuel surcharges?
Would they only rebook me if award space was available?
If they rebooked me on BA or Iberia would I have to pony up for the fuel surcharges?
Last edited by rrapynot; Sep 27, 2016 at 12:13 pm
Sep 27, 2016, 1:16 pm
#6
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Technically AA's only obligation (assumed you are on 001 ticket stock) is to offer you a complete refund of your trip with no penalties if your flight on AB is not longer operating, whatever the reason.
That being said, in practicality you would be able hang up and call again until a nice agent rebooks you with no additional surcharges or fees.
There would be limitations of course, AA cannot make their partners open award space for you, but they can force space on their own flights if the situation calls for it.
That being said, in practicality you would be able hang up and call again until a nice agent rebooks you with no additional surcharges or fees.
There would be limitations of course, AA cannot make their partners open award space for you, but they can force space on their own flights if the situation calls for it.
Sep 27, 2016, 1:31 pm
#7
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That being said, I wouldn't mind going to FRA and having AA book a train to Dusseldorf/Berlin if need be as a last resort... but if it was Greece or somewhere farther away, might not be an option.
Sep 27, 2016, 1:52 pm
#8
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 3,049
If another partner has award space you can get moved to it and you may avoid additional charges, but that is about it.
Other than that you get your miles back without penalty charges, you certainly won't be able to get them to book you on a train or a revenue ticket pn a 3rd party airline for that matter.
Sep 27, 2016, 2:08 pm
#9
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First, "fold" is a pretty non-specific term. But, if AB were completely insolvent and ceased operations, AA's sole legal obligation would be to refund the tickets without any fees. AB, as the operating carrier, would have EC 261/2004 obligations, but it would be insolvent, so those would not likely do much.
Second, AA would be able to rebook OP on AA metal anywhere AA has space. But,time would be of the essence as there would be a lot of passengers competing for few open spaces at high season. I would also not be so certain that AA would be quite so charitable with all of its inventory.
Third, to the extent that other OW carriers fly to the destination, AA would request space, but realistically that space would have been taken by AB customers of those OW customers so the chances of AA getting any of it are pretty slim.
Thus, the likely best happening is that AA gets you as close to where you want to go as possible. AA would not purchase tickets for you on other carriers or purchase rail tickets. That would be up to you. But, bear in mind that we are not talking about huge distances.
Finally, larger carriers do not typically cease operations. It is in the interest of the EU & German government and other OW carriers to find a way to restructure. That may be cold comfort.
As an aside, because this is an award ticket ---don't ever pay for an air ticket with anything other than a CC (not a DC). If it comes to pass that the carrier is insolvent and does not fly, the value of your ticket will be refunded to your CC. If you have paid in other forms such as DC, cash or wire transfer, you are simply a creditor of AB and the chances that you will see much, if anything of your ticket's value are slim to none.
Second, AA would be able to rebook OP on AA metal anywhere AA has space. But,time would be of the essence as there would be a lot of passengers competing for few open spaces at high season. I would also not be so certain that AA would be quite so charitable with all of its inventory.
Third, to the extent that other OW carriers fly to the destination, AA would request space, but realistically that space would have been taken by AB customers of those OW customers so the chances of AA getting any of it are pretty slim.
Thus, the likely best happening is that AA gets you as close to where you want to go as possible. AA would not purchase tickets for you on other carriers or purchase rail tickets. That would be up to you. But, bear in mind that we are not talking about huge distances.
Finally, larger carriers do not typically cease operations. It is in the interest of the EU & German government and other OW carriers to find a way to restructure. That may be cold comfort.
As an aside, because this is an award ticket ---don't ever pay for an air ticket with anything other than a CC (not a DC). If it comes to pass that the carrier is insolvent and does not fly, the value of your ticket will be refunded to your CC. If you have paid in other forms such as DC, cash or wire transfer, you are simply a creditor of AB and the chances that you will see much, if anything of your ticket's value are slim to none.
Sep 27, 2016, 2:10 pm
#10
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https://www.aa.com/intl/de/specialOf...obileUAFlag=AA
https://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/p..._and_fly.shtml
Might have to spend some time wrangling with them. Might not be worth it (train tickets cost 29 euros a lot of the time, is arguing for 29 euros of train travel worth it). But it is actually possible to have DB rail travel be part of a AA plane ticket. I've done it before in Germany. One advantage is you can get on a later train with no problem if your flight is delayed.
Sep 27, 2016, 2:15 pm
#11
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The problem being that I don't think AA flies to TXL or DUS (ORD-DUS has been cancelled), nor to HEL, so for most of AB's European destinations, it's MAD or LHR + beg and plead BA/IB for the connection to the original destination (assuming it's open).
That being said, I wouldn't mind going to FRA and having AA book a train to Dusseldorf/Berlin if need be as a last resort... but if it was Greece or somewhere farther away, might not be an option.
That being said, I wouldn't mind going to FRA and having AA book a train to Dusseldorf/Berlin if need be as a last resort... but if it was Greece or somewhere farther away, might not be an option.
Sep 27, 2016, 2:20 pm
#12
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That is never going to happen
If another partner has award space you can get moved to it and you may avoid additional charges, but that is about it.
Other than that you get your miles back without penalty charges, you certainly won't be able to get them to book you on a train or a revenue ticket pn a 3rd party airline for that matter.
If another partner has award space you can get moved to it and you may avoid additional charges, but that is about it.
Other than that you get your miles back without penalty charges, you certainly won't be able to get them to book you on a train or a revenue ticket pn a 3rd party airline for that matter.
Sep 27, 2016, 5:20 pm
#13
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Sep 27, 2016, 5:33 pm
#14
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oneworld has had at least two cases in the past decade of its carriers going poof: in addition to Malev, there was Mexicana.
Also, in talking about train connections, did AA drop its codeshares with DB rail?
Sep 27, 2016, 6:22 pm
#15
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I'm led to believe that AB's situation is -extremely- critical. However, also it is indicated that it is far more likely they get absorbed rather than close up shop Malev-style.
I personally do believe that the days of AB as a stand-alone carrier (and for that matter, a member of OneWorld) are very numbered.
And, anecdotal evidence from deep within AA, indicate to some far more knowledgeable than I that preparations for such a change are already in the preliminary stages at AA.
I personally do believe that the days of AB as a stand-alone carrier (and for that matter, a member of OneWorld) are very numbered.
And, anecdotal evidence from deep within AA, indicate to some far more knowledgeable than I that preparations for such a change are already in the preliminary stages at AA.