May 6, 2016, 10:03 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
Please see FAQ: Missing / Skipping Segment - Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing (consolidated) for the active thread.
ARCHIVE: FAQ: Missing / Skipping Segment - Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing
Oct 22, 2003, 3:17 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Arizona AA Exp Plat
Posts: 29
ARCHIVE: FAQ: Missing / Skipping Segment - Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing
I am flying Osaka(ITM) - NRT - DFW - TUS. This is a paper ticket where the ITM - NRT is on All Nippon Airways, domestic. I want to skip the ANA flight, and travel to Tokyo a day early, taking the DFW-TUS as scheduled. Most of the time I have always had two seperate tickets, this is unusual but was issued by American on the same reservation number. Can I skip the ANA leg?
On the way here, I had to check in each to Tokyo, then to Osaka. American did not issue boarding passes for ANA. I believe that American would not know if I board the first leg or not. Can I do this and not run into trouble?
Skipping first leg of 3 leg flight - Can it be done? (original thread title)
Skipping an intermediate or end segment is referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will generally cancel the remaining segments, and if it is dropping the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called the "Hidden City" ticket.
The entire Conditions of Carriage, the contract that governs your ticket (in additon to the Detailed Fare Rules attached to your fare class and readable prior to purchase), are here: CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE.
The specific language regarding Hidden City and Point Beyond Ticketing is here:
On the way here, I had to check in each to Tokyo, then to Osaka. American did not issue boarding passes for ANA. I believe that American would not know if I board the first leg or not. Can I do this and not run into trouble?
Skipping first leg of 3 leg flight - Can it be done? (original thread title)
================= MODERATOR NOTE====================
Skipping an intermediate or end segment is referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will generally cancel the remaining segments, and if it is dropping the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called the "Hidden City" ticket.
The entire Conditions of Carriage, the contract that governs your ticket (in additon to the Detailed Fare Rules attached to your fare class and readable prior to purchase), are here: CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE.
The specific language regarding Hidden City and Point Beyond Ticketing is here:
TICKET VALIDITY - COMPLIANCE WITH TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SALE
Tickets are valid for travel only when used in accordance with all terms and conditions of sale. Terms and conditions of sale include but are not limited to:
Unless a ticket is reissued by American or its authorized agent upon payment of applicable charges, or an authorized representative of American waives applicable restrictions in writing, a ticket is invalid:
American specifically prohibits the practices commonly known as:
Back to Back Ticketing: The combination of two or more roundtrip excursion fares end to end for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements.
Throwaway Ticketing: The usage of roundtrip excursion fare for one-way travel, and
Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing: Purchase of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.
Duplicate and Impossible/Illogical Bookings: Duplicate or impossible/illogical American Airlines bookings are prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines. A duplicate or impossible/illogical booking includes, but is not limited to, bookings for the same passenger on flights traveling on or about the same date between one or more of the same or nearby origin and/or destination (such as JFKDFW and LGADFW or DFWLAX and DFWONT), or bookings with connections that depart before the arrival of the inbound flight.
Fraudulent, Fictitious and Abusive Bookings: Fraudulent, fictitious and/or abusive bookings are prohibited. These types of bookings are defined as any bookings made without having been requested by or on behalf of the named passenger. Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
Sample letter from American Airlines on Hidden City Ticketing:Tickets are valid for travel only when used in accordance with all terms and conditions of sale. Terms and conditions of sale include but are not limited to:
- The passenger's itinerary, as stated on the ticket or in the passenger's reservation record,
- Any requirement that the passenger stay over a specified date or length of time (for example, Saturday night or weekend) at the destination specified on the ticket.
- Any special purpose or status (for example, age in the case of senior citizen or children's discounts, military status in the case of a military fare, official government business in the case of a government fare, or attendance at a qualified event in the case of a meeting or convention fare) that entitles the passenger to a special or reduced rate, or
- Any other requirement associated with the passenger's fare level.
Unless a ticket is reissued by American or its authorized agent upon payment of applicable charges, or an authorized representative of American waives applicable restrictions in writing, a ticket is invalid:
- If used for travel to a destination other than that specified on the ticket,
- If the passenger fails to comply with applicable stay-over requirements,
- If the passenger does not meet the purpose or status requirement associated with the fare category on the ticket, or
- If American determines that the ticket has been purchased or used in a manner designed to circumvent applicable fare rules.
American specifically prohibits the practices commonly known as:
Back to Back Ticketing: The combination of two or more roundtrip excursion fares end to end for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements.
Throwaway Ticketing: The usage of roundtrip excursion fare for one-way travel, and
Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing: Purchase of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.
Duplicate and Impossible/Illogical Bookings: Duplicate or impossible/illogical American Airlines bookings are prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines. A duplicate or impossible/illogical booking includes, but is not limited to, bookings for the same passenger on flights traveling on or about the same date between one or more of the same or nearby origin and/or destination (such as JFKDFW and LGADFW or DFWLAX and DFWONT), or bookings with connections that depart before the arrival of the inbound flight.
Fraudulent, Fictitious and Abusive Bookings: Fraudulent, fictitious and/or abusive bookings are prohibited. These types of bookings are defined as any bookings made without having been requested by or on behalf of the named passenger. Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
- Cancel any remaining portion of the passenger's itinerary,
- Confiscate unused flight coupons,
- Refuse to board the passenger or check the passenger's luggage, or
- Assess the passenger for the reasonable remaining value of the ticket, which shall be no less than the difference between the fare actually paid and the lowest fare applicable to the passenger's actual itinerary
Dear ,
Let me take the opportunity to clarify American Airlines position on hidden city or point beyond ticketing. Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical. It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores. Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.
Because we compete with other airlines with different route structures, we sometimes find it necessary to give a traveler who is traveling beyond a connecting point a better price than travelers who are just traveling to the connecting point. For example, a passenger who is traveling to Austin, Texas from Los Angeles can go on one airline via Phoenix for a price that is lower than the cost of traveling on American between Los Angeles and Dallas. If we want to offer the same price to Austin as the other airline, but the only way we can get travelers there is via Dallas, we find ourselves charging the Austin passengers less than the Dallas passengers.
Although the issuance and usage of hidden city tickets is not illegal in the sense that one could be fined or sent to jail by the government, it is unethical and a breach of a passengers (sic) contract with AA. Both tariff rule 100AA and American's Condition of Carriage, which are incorporated into every ticket sold by American as part of our agreement to carry the passenger named on the ticket, bar hidden city ticketing. In addition, it violates the agencies' contract to act as an agent for American Airlines.
If American Airlines continues to lose revenue as a result of hidden city transactions, the fares we charge must inevitably rise.
Sincerely,
Let me take the opportunity to clarify American Airlines position on hidden city or point beyond ticketing. Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical. It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores. Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.
Because we compete with other airlines with different route structures, we sometimes find it necessary to give a traveler who is traveling beyond a connecting point a better price than travelers who are just traveling to the connecting point. For example, a passenger who is traveling to Austin, Texas from Los Angeles can go on one airline via Phoenix for a price that is lower than the cost of traveling on American between Los Angeles and Dallas. If we want to offer the same price to Austin as the other airline, but the only way we can get travelers there is via Dallas, we find ourselves charging the Austin passengers less than the Dallas passengers.
Although the issuance and usage of hidden city tickets is not illegal in the sense that one could be fined or sent to jail by the government, it is unethical and a breach of a passengers (sic) contract with AA. Both tariff rule 100AA and American's Condition of Carriage, which are incorporated into every ticket sold by American as part of our agreement to carry the passenger named on the ticket, bar hidden city ticketing. In addition, it violates the agencies' contract to act as an agent for American Airlines.
If American Airlines continues to lose revenue as a result of hidden city transactions, the fares we charge must inevitably rise.
Sincerely,
Last edited by JDiver; Apr 18, 2013 at 9:22 am Reason: Fixed minor formatting/spelling
Oct 22, 2003, 4:16 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: OH
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, Marriot Lifetime Gold
Posts: 9,537
Skipping the first leg can result in the rest of you itinerary being cancelled. SInce it is all on the same PNR, I would expect AA to know and to cancel the rest of your flights
I wouldn't do it
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I wouldn't do it
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http://www.benjaminwagner.com
Great music!
Oct 22, 2003, 4:53 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Arizona AA Exp Plat
Posts: 29
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Redhead:
Skipping the first leg can result in the rest of you itinerary being cancelled. SInce it is all on the same PNR, I would expect AA to know and to cancel the rest of your flights
I wouldn't do it
</font>
Skipping the first leg can result in the rest of you itinerary being cancelled. SInce it is all on the same PNR, I would expect AA to know and to cancel the rest of your flights
I wouldn't do it
</font>
Does anybody know for sure?
Oct 22, 2003, 5:47 am
#4
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX AA EXP-3MM, HYT PLAT, SPG PLAT,HLT GLD,LEADERS CLUB
Posts: 1,183
They do not issue boarding passes on other carriers flights to begin with.Second if you do not check in for your first flight your whole trip will be canceled.I would call and have your ticket re-issued if that is what you really want and pay the change fee.
I think you are just looking at having a problem in NRT.
In the states we call that ticketing from a hidden city where many times the airfare is lower at a starting point other then the city you want to actually leave from. If I could do this not many of my trips would start from DFW thats for sure.
I think you are just looking at having a problem in NRT.
In the states we call that ticketing from a hidden city where many times the airfare is lower at a starting point other then the city you want to actually leave from. If I could do this not many of my trips would start from DFW thats for sure.
Oct 22, 2003, 8:51 am
#5
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 63,602
While AA often can't issue a fully valid BP for other carriers, they will know if you didn't fly the ITM-NRT leg. Don't risk it is my advice.
Oct 22, 2003, 12:51 pm
#6
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,875
having worked on sabre and for an airline I have to say that there is no way AA would know that you didn't show up for your NH flight. They are on 2 different computer systems. Also usually if you noshow a flight the carrier just cancels the rest of their flights not the other carriers. So unless things have changed drastically I think you should be ok. but with everything in life you are taking a chance.
Oct 23, 2003, 3:37 am
#7
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DAL/DFW
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Posts: 76
Even within OneWorld, I purchased a separate ticket and took another LanChile flight to get to SCL a day early a few weeks back and had no problem picking up my original non-stop to DFW.
I called the AA reservations # for Chile when I arrived from PMC and said "I'm already in SCL and want to make sure my long-haul flight space is not canceled."
Perhaps the same could be done in Tokyo?
[This message has been edited by mileshawk (edited 10-23-2003).]
I called the AA reservations # for Chile when I arrived from PMC and said "I'm already in SCL and want to make sure my long-haul flight space is not canceled."
Perhaps the same could be done in Tokyo?
[This message has been edited by mileshawk (edited 10-23-2003).]
Oct 23, 2003, 5:53 am
#8
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,797
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RonC:
Can I skip the ANA leg? I believe that American would not know if I board the first leg or not. Can I do this and not run into trouble?</font>
Can I skip the ANA leg? I believe that American would not know if I board the first leg or not. Can I do this and not run into trouble?</font>
You might be able to do it, but as others say, you will also bear the risk. Wouldn't want to be in your shoes in case a detailed agent\supervisor decides to check further into it ...having to buy a new ticket for same-day travel transpacific could be extremely expensive.
Aug 5, 2004, 6:12 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: St. Helena, CA
Programs: UA 1K/MM, AA EXP/MM
Posts: 242
Skipping a leg of a RT
I booked a RT itinerary through aa.com which is:
AAA - BBB (AA) then BBB - CCC (JAL)
This is reversed on the return, except that the leg from CCC - BBB is an AA codeshare (operated by JAL).
Since I made the reservation, I decided that I want to stop for a few days in BBB. I got a good price on the ticket, so I don't really want to mess with it. I'm thinking that I could simply get off in BBB, spend my time there, then go to CCC by train to finish my sightseeing and pick up the return.
Is this safe? It seems unlikely that the AA is going to cancel my return because I didn't show up for a flight on another carrier, but maybe I'm missing something.
AAA - BBB (AA) then BBB - CCC (JAL)
This is reversed on the return, except that the leg from CCC - BBB is an AA codeshare (operated by JAL).
Since I made the reservation, I decided that I want to stop for a few days in BBB. I got a good price on the ticket, so I don't really want to mess with it. I'm thinking that I could simply get off in BBB, spend my time there, then go to CCC by train to finish my sightseeing and pick up the return.
Is this safe? It seems unlikely that the AA is going to cancel my return because I didn't show up for a flight on another carrier, but maybe I'm missing something.
Last edited by Napa; Aug 5, 2004 at 6:20 pm
Aug 5, 2004, 6:18 pm
#10
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: CA, AA EXP, MR Gold, SPG PLT
Posts: 1,850
Uncertainty
This has been discussed here before and I think the consensus was that if the systems of carrier 2 do not speak with those of carrier 1, then dropping the second segment/sector which is on carrier 2 will not affect you adversely.
I dont think there is a way to be completely certain. Secondly you have not mentioned who the carriers are and that makes it harder to comment definitively.
I dont think there is a way to be completely certain. Secondly you have not mentioned who the carriers are and that makes it harder to comment definitively.
Aug 5, 2004, 6:21 pm
#11
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: St. Helena, CA
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OK, I didn't realize it was carrier-specific. I edited the original post to include the other carrier (JAL).
Aug 5, 2004, 6:27 pm
#12
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: CA, AA EXP, MR Gold, SPG PLT
Posts: 1,850
I think you should wait for someone that has done it before to post re their experience. Even then remember that YMMV.
You could also ask an AAgent what would happen if you did what you propose and/or what the re-routed ticket would cost.
You could also ask an AAgent what would happen if you did what you propose and/or what the re-routed ticket would cost.
Aug 6, 2004, 12:06 am
#13
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PIT/DFW/MEL; AA Exec. Platinum & 4MM, QF WP
Posts: 7,689
Originally Posted by Napa
OK, I didn't realize it was carrier-specific. I edited the original post to include the other carrier (JAL).
Aug 6, 2004, 10:10 am
#14
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Posts: 242
Originally Posted by martin33
given you booked it on aa.com, won't the whole thing be sitting there in Sabre, thence red-flagged that you missed the second segment? That ought to trigger auto-cancellation of legs 3 and 4.
Aug 6, 2004, 10:47 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Originally Posted by Napa
Hmm. Maybe so. I guess it's too iffy since I don't know the details of the interactions between the two airlines.
Having said that, JL has its own reservation system called AXXIS, but Sabre is really tightly integrated with it as it's the only shareholder besides JL (with a 25% investment) and provides services such as fare pricing, and all the hotel and car reservation functions to it.
Basically what you're asking is if you'd get caught in violating the fare rules. Most likely you will. Try to see how much it will take you to change the ticket within the rules.