lkar

I'm trying to book an award to DUB. I can book DFW-LHR on AA, connecting (fewer than 24 hours) in LHR, to DUB on BA. Taxes and fees are about $107.

If I were to book the DFW-LHR leg alone, the fees are in total $5.60. If I were to book the LHR to DUB leg on its own using AA miles, the fees would be $86. How can the fees for connecting be more than the fees would be seperately booking each leg? I understand BA charges YQ and other crap, but shouldn't it be less to connect than if I were originating in LHR to DUB since there shouldn't be any APD on a connection? (APD here is about $39.)

Does AA charge more than $5.60 on its end for an EU connection somehow? Or does DUB have a tax that AA is collecting that it wouldn't collect if flying direct? I think AA does not typically charge the U.S. International Departure Tax on awards, but maybe they charge it if you have a segment on a partner? Even so, that's only $17.

Dave Noble

When booking the BA sector there will likely be a YQ charge involved

This will cause additional taxes that will be due for US-LHR


For a JFK-DUB via LHR, the taxes would be


United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge (UB) US$34.00
BA YQ surcharge (YQ) US$40.00
US International Departure Tax (US) US$17.70
US September 11th Security Fee (AY) US$5.60
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF) US$4.50

= $101.80

With a US-UK on an AA award where there is no YQ involved, then you are exempt the $17.70 and $4.50 taxes . As soon as connecting onto BA with YQ to be paid , then those taxes become due

lkar

Ahh, that makes sense. So, the difference is those two US charges that spring up once the YQ is tacked on. What's strange, though, is that BA no longer charges YQ on short hauls. Maybe there is a YQ charge because of the DFW-LHR leg?

Dave Noble

Pricing out on Matrix for JFK-DUB via LHR AA-BA it is def showing a YQ applicable on a paid fare

Pricing up a purchased LHR-DUB standalone, BA seems not to charge a surcharge, however there is UK APD to pay

Taxes for LHR-DUB on its own are

United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge (UB) Ł30.11
United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty (GB) Ł26.00

which is approximately $85

Book the through journey and avoid GBP26 APD but incur $40 APD plus $22.20 in additional US taxes.

If booking a business class or 1st class award booking, then at least you get the dubiously named business class on LHR-DUB and the 3 piece baggage allowance

3Cforme

If you book the tickets separately you have a departure from LON instead of a connection, and UK Air Passenger Duty is due. DFW-LON-DUB escapes that.

Search for 'APD' in the forum.

Dave Noble

The OP was querying on why the taxes for the through journey were more than for 2 separate bookings rather than the other way round

The cause of that is not APD

As shown it is due to the additional US taxes plus BA surcharge on the through journey being higher than the APD for 2 separate journeys

lkar

Thanks for helping me understand. What's interesting is that when you book using Avios on BA.com, BA now imposes a maximum surcharge called "reward flight saver". Basically, for many inter-EU flights they cap the surcharges at 17.5 GBP in coach and 25 GBP in business, no matter what the APD and airport surcharge. So, I guess I could book split tickets -- book DFW-LHR using AA and pay $5.60, and book LHR-DUB on BA.com, using 4500 Avios and $26.50. So, save $77 and pay 4500 Avios.

I guess the reason not to do it would be irregular ops and luggage, but I think OW supposedly protects me on split tickets, and I imagine AA would interline on split tickets. I also get the empty seat and meal on the DUB leg. Then, there's lounge access. Since the DFW-LHR is in AA in first, I get access to BA's galleries first lounge on a connection, but I'm not sure if they would admit me with an outbound coach split ticket. I have business lounge access with status, though, so I'm not sure it's a big deal.

In the end, I think i will just suck it up and pay the extra $100, but it seems to me that multiple passenger itineraries might do better booking as split tickets in this situation, depending on if they have avios and how much they value them.

Edit: then again,, I've always wanted to take that ferry. Hmmm . . . .

JDiver

Some related threads of interest:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...er-thread.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...e-tickets.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html

And there are those Passenger Sevice Charges...

lkar

Thanks JDriver. I had actually seen some of those, but I was sort of wanting to discuss a bit of a separate phenomenon that is affected by APD, but actually in a counter-intuitive way.

The question I tried to pose -- not particularly well -- is why are there more charges on a connecting flight than on separate tickets? It seems counterintuitive, since BA charges APD when you book separate tickets, and one would think the APD would increase the cost. It turns out, as Dave has shown, that the answer is twofold: (1) AA collects a YQ charge on the segment originating at LHR, even though BA does not charge that YQ any more on short hauls, and (2) once this YQ is charged, it springs up two additional US taxes that are not ordinarily collected by AA on AA award flights solely on AA metal.

Both of these charges, when combined, actually exceed the APD, so your cost to connect is higher than your cost on split tickets.

But the threads you cite do raise an interesting question -- you've had success getting AA to refund the APD when on split tickets, and so I wonder whether one could get BA to do the same thing?

In my case, the question is largely moot. If I were to book DFW-LHR and LHR to DUB as separate tickets, I would use Avios for the latter. BA doesn't charge the APD on an award ticket from LHR to DUB, so there's nothing to be refunded. (Actually, the way it works is that they cap the surcharges, and since the cap amount is less than airport surcharge alone, there is no APD to charge.)

I suppose if one were to book DFW-LHR on AA using miles and then a split ticket on cash or using AA miles, the APD might be refundable, but given the amount of miles charged by AA for the separate ticket, or the amount of cash required by BA to book the EU segment, the modest cost of the APD does not make sense.

The larger question that I have is whether it is legitimate on an itinerary like this for AA to be charging the YQ on the LHR-DUB segment, when BA has eliminated YQ on these short hauls. I think the answer is yes, according to Dave's research, because apparently BA still collects the YQ if the pax is connecting from a long haul (based on ita matrix), but it's not entirely clear to me why this should be.

Dave Noble

It would seem silly to book them separately with such a small price difference ( if booking business class or higher) due to the benefits of having a single ticketed itinerary such as the 3 piece baggage allowance and the onward flight being in Club Europe

At least you know why the tax/charge component is higher for the through journey

lkar

I agree.

The truth, and why I really care, is that I grabbed DFW to LHR because it opened up on the day that I wanted and I have it on hold -- given that AA metal awards to Europe can sometimes be hard to find. I'm trying to figure out whether to add DUB in the next 48 hours while the ticket is on hold, but in truth I'm not sure yet whether I want to end in DUB or in London. I think the former, but I'm not sure. My plan was to simply add the DUB leg, and then not use it if I changed my mind later -- and I was surprised to see that flexibility would end up costing me an extra $210 (there are two of us). That led me to try to figure out why connecting was more expensive notwithstanding the APD -- and then I thought it was an interesting topic. I think I probably will add the DUB leg, but still am not sure.

Time traveller

For an award flight from EU to the US, I am seeing a $100 increase in taxes dor an itinerary that connects in LHR vs a direct EU-US flight. Does this seem about right?

As an example,

FRA-DFW ~ $110 in taxes
FRA-LHR-DFW ~ $210 in taxes

This is with the TATL flights on AA metal.

Anyone know what the $100 different in taxes is? Is it some sort of LHR departure tax?

The EXP desk was not willing to give me the breakdown of the taxes.

guv1976

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

The difference is likely a combination of:

1. the surcharge that AA collects for the FRA-LHR flight on BA (even though BA has eliminated surcharges for intra-European flights on its own award tickets);

2. the LHR PSC; and

3. certain additional U.S. taxes on award tickets that have a surcharge component. (Wholly "free" award tickets are exempt from some U.S. taxes.)