Apr 18, 2013, 9:20 am
Last edit by: Prospero
FAQ: "Missing" or "Skipping Segments": Hidden City, Point Beyond and Throw Away Ticketing
Q. What will happen if I "skip" a segment?
A. Skipping an intermediate or end segment is most often referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and “skiplagging” by others; doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will at least cancel the remaining segments. If the reason for missing a segment is to drop the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called a "Hidden City / Point Beyond" ticket. American Airlines states, in the Conditions of Carriage (and more existentially in Tariff Rule 100AA):
Link to American Airlines Conditions of Carriage, Ticket Validity.
Q. What about buying a round trip and not flying the return?
"Throw away" ticketing, that is purchasing a less expensive round trip ticket with the intent of not flying the return segments ("throwing away" the return tickets) is similarly frowned upon, but may be acted upon - particularly if this becomes frequent or a pattern
Q. Do American Airlines Corporate Security / AAdvantage Fraud have people and algorithms running in the background that check for these?
Assuredly, yes. Can people be found liable for fees and/or lose their accounts / status / miles? Yes, we have had many reports on FT, and the risk increases for repeaters. Can people be criminally or civilly prosecuted? Doubtful. (Link to article on Contract Fraud.)
Q. Would I get in trouble skipping the final segment?
A. Possibly not, if you don't do this on other than the rare occasion, but there is risk.
Q. Can I short check my baggage?
A. In most cases, you may find it difficult, unless you have an overnight connection, must retrieve your baggage for customs or because your connection does not offer interlining of baggage.
Q. Will I get my EQ and Award Miles.
You will likely accrue miles for the segments you actually flew. But “skiplagging” could result in miles confiscation and potentially account closure.
Q. Can I claim the residual value for the unused segment?
Au contraire; with a hidden city / point beyond ticket, you owe AA money under their rules. United and Lufthansa have billed skiplaggers, AA may have.
Q. What has AA said they can do to me about hidden city or throwaway ticketing?
“Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.”
A highly recommended article on this topic is 3 Words on Hidden City Ticketing: Don’t Do It (link) from ExpertFlyer, 27 Feb 2019.
Archived older posts may be read here.
For Conditions of Carriage - Ticket Validity and Letter used by AA:
Q. What will happen if I "skip" a segment?
A. Skipping an intermediate or end segment is most often referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and “skiplagging” by others; doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will at least cancel the remaining segments. If the reason for missing a segment is to drop the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called a "Hidden City / Point Beyond" ticket. American Airlines states, in the Conditions of Carriage (and more existentially in Tariff Rule 100AA):
American specifically prohibits the practices commonly known as:
Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing: Purchase of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.
Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing: Purchase of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.
Q. What about buying a round trip and not flying the return?
"Throw away" ticketing, that is purchasing a less expensive round trip ticket with the intent of not flying the return segments ("throwing away" the return tickets) is similarly frowned upon, but may be acted upon - particularly if this becomes frequent or a pattern
Q. Do American Airlines Corporate Security / AAdvantage Fraud have people and algorithms running in the background that check for these?
Assuredly, yes. Can people be found liable for fees and/or lose their accounts / status / miles? Yes, we have had many reports on FT, and the risk increases for repeaters. Can people be criminally or civilly prosecuted? Doubtful. (Link to article on Contract Fraud.)
Q. Would I get in trouble skipping the final segment?
A. Possibly not, if you don't do this on other than the rare occasion, but there is risk.
Q. Can I short check my baggage?
A. In most cases, you may find it difficult, unless you have an overnight connection, must retrieve your baggage for customs or because your connection does not offer interlining of baggage.
Q. Will I get my EQ and Award Miles.
You will likely accrue miles for the segments you actually flew. But “skiplagging” could result in miles confiscation and potentially account closure.
Q. Can I claim the residual value for the unused segment?
Au contraire; with a hidden city / point beyond ticket, you owe AA money under their rules. United and Lufthansa have billed skiplaggers, AA may have.
Q. What has AA said they can do to me about hidden city or throwaway ticketing?
“Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.”
A highly recommended article on this topic is 3 Words on Hidden City Ticketing: Don’t Do It (link) from ExpertFlyer, 27 Feb 2019.
Archived older posts may be read here.
For Conditions of Carriage - Ticket Validity and Letter used by AA:
AA Hidden City and Point Beyond Ticketing:
Skipping an intermediate or end segment is referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will generally cancel the remaining segments, and if it is dropping the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called the "Hidden City" ticket.
The entire Conditions of Carriage, the contract that governs your ticket (in additon to the Detailed Fare Rules attached to your fare class and readable prior to purchase), are here: CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE.
The specific language regarding Hidden City and Point Beyond Ticketing is here:
TICKET VALIDITY - COMPLIANCE WITH TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SALE
Tickets are valid for travel only when used in accordance with all terms and conditions of sale. Terms and conditions of sale include but are not limited to:
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
In August 2020 AA went after user HappyInTheAir561 for Hidden City Ticketing, demanding payment of $2,500 or permanent closure of his AAdvantage account and loss of 600,000 miles balance. Below is the letter (missing is the 2,500 quote), and there is an entire thread about it here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...rmination.html The user says he ultimately paid the money.
Skipping an intermediate or end segment is referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will generally cancel the remaining segments, and if it is dropping the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called the "Hidden City" ticket.
The entire Conditions of Carriage, the contract that governs your ticket (in additon to the Detailed Fare Rules attached to your fare class and readable prior to purchase), are here: CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE.
The specific language regarding Hidden City and Point Beyond Ticketing is here:
TICKET VALIDITY - COMPLIANCE WITH TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SALE
Tickets are valid for travel only when used in accordance with all terms and conditions of sale. Terms and conditions of sale include but are not limited to:
- The passenger's itinerary, as stated on the ticket or in the passenger's reservation record,
- Any requirement that the passenger stay over a specified date or length of time (for example, Saturday night or weekend) at the destination specified on the ticket.
- Any special purpose or status (for example, age in the case of senior citizen or children's discounts, military status in the case of a military fare, official government business in the case of a government fare, or attendance at a qualified event in the case of a meeting or convention fare) that entitles the passenger to a special or reduced rate, or
- Any other requirement associated with the passenger's fare level.
- If used for travel to a destination other than that specified on the ticket,
- If the passenger fails to comply with applicable stay-over requirements,
- If the passenger does not meet the purpose or status requirement associated with the fare category on the ticket, or
- If American determines that the ticket has been purchased or used in a manner designed to circumvent applicable fare rules.
- Back to Back Ticketing: The combination of two or more roundtrip excursion fares end to end for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements.
- Throwaway Ticketing: The usage of roundtrip excursion fare for one-way travel, and
- Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing: Purchase of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.
- Duplicate and Impossible/Illogical Bookings: Duplicate or impossible/illogical American Airlines bookings are prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines. A duplicate or impossible/illogical booking includes, but is not limited to, bookings for the same passenger on flights traveling on or about the same date between one or more of the same or nearby origin and/or destination (such as JFKDFW and LGADFW or DFWLAX and DFWONT), or bookings with connections that depart before the arrival of the inbound flight.
- Fraudulent, Fictitious and Abusive Bookings: Fraudulent, fictitious and/or abusive bookings are prohibited. These types of bookings are defined as any bookings made without having been requested by or on behalf of the named passenger. Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
- Cancel any remaining portion of the passenger's itinerary,
- Confiscate unused flight coupons,
- Refuse to board the passenger or check the passenger's luggage, or
- Assess the passenger for the reasonable remaining value of the ticket, which shall be no less than the difference between the fare actually paid and the lowest fare applicable to the passenger's actual itinerary
Dear ,
Let me take the opportunity to clarify American Airlines position on hidden city or point beyond ticketing. Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical (sic). It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores. Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.
Because we compete with other airlines with different route structures, we sometimes find it necessary to give a traveler who is traveling beyond a connecting point a better price than travelers who are just traveling to the connecting point. For example, a passenger who is traveling to Austin, Texas from Los Angeles can go on one airline via Phoenix for a price that is lower than the cost of traveling on American between Los Angeles and Dallas. If we want to offer the same price to Austin as the other airline, but the only way we can get travelers there is via Dallas, we find ourselves charging the Austin passengers less than the Dallas passengers.
Although the issuance and usage of hidden city tickets is not illegal in the sense that one could be fined or sent to jail by the government, it is unethical and a breach of a passengers (sic) contract with AA. Both tariff rule 100AA and American's Condition of Carriage, which are incorporated into every ticket sold by American as part of our agreement to carry the passenger named on the ticket, bar hidden city ticketing. In addition, it violates the agencies' contract to act as an agent for American Airlines.
If American Airlines continues to lose revenue as a result of hidden city transactions, the fares we charge must inevitably rise.
Sincerely,
Let me take the opportunity to clarify American Airlines position on hidden city or point beyond ticketing. Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical (sic). It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores. Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.
Because we compete with other airlines with different route structures, we sometimes find it necessary to give a traveler who is traveling beyond a connecting point a better price than travelers who are just traveling to the connecting point. For example, a passenger who is traveling to Austin, Texas from Los Angeles can go on one airline via Phoenix for a price that is lower than the cost of traveling on American between Los Angeles and Dallas. If we want to offer the same price to Austin as the other airline, but the only way we can get travelers there is via Dallas, we find ourselves charging the Austin passengers less than the Dallas passengers.
Although the issuance and usage of hidden city tickets is not illegal in the sense that one could be fined or sent to jail by the government, it is unethical and a breach of a passengers (sic) contract with AA. Both tariff rule 100AA and American's Condition of Carriage, which are incorporated into every ticket sold by American as part of our agreement to carry the passenger named on the ticket, bar hidden city ticketing. In addition, it violates the agencies' contract to act as an agent for American Airlines.
If American Airlines continues to lose revenue as a result of hidden city transactions, the fares we charge must inevitably rise.
Sincerely,
Mr. XXXX,
As an analyst with American Airlines, one of my responsibilities is investigating violations of the General AAdvantage® Program Conditions. An audit of your AAdvantage account, determined that you have engaged in the practice known as ‘Hidden City ticketing’; the purchase of a fare to a point beyond your actual destination. Hidden city ticketing is explicitly defined in AA’s Conditions of Carriage as a violation of ticket validity. The Terms and Conditions of the AAdvantage program further state that compliance with the Conditions of Carriage is compulsory for participation in the AAdvantage program. As such, AAdvantage account XXXXXX is restricted, pending the outcome of our investigation. You may review the terms and conditions of the AAdvantage ® program (several parts of the terms and conditions are noted below) by clicking the link below or by copying and pasting it into your browser.
The audit of your account XXXXXwas completed on August xx, 2020. The following reservations were not issued in compliance with the AAdvantage Terms & Conditions, Conditions of Carriage or AA.com Site Usage policy:
52 HIDDEN CITY TICKETS (Included each one of the flights they believe is a hidden city ticket)
Not unlike other commodities, airline seats are market priced. A seat on a non-stop flight is a premium product and commands a higher price. Seats in connecting markets must be priced competitively and hence can be substantially cheaper. The ill-effects of point beyond ticketing are two-fold; the customer receives the flight for a price for which they aren’t entitled and a seat is spoiled on the separate connecting flight. An airline ticket constitutes a contract and the terms of that contract are stated explicitly in the Conditions of Carriage. Please see excerpts below.
Mr.XXXXX, these actions have resulted in clear and considerable losses to American Airlines. In addition to our loss for the travel provided, tickets booked through prohibited practices are considered fraudulent, and therefore not eligible to accrue mileage. In this case, our loss is further compounded through the Elite mileage accruals, benefits, and services used that were not otherwise available. Generally, violations of this nature subject the AAdvantage account to termination. However, we are willing to provide you with an opportunity to restore an equitable relationship through restitution for the loss on your identified travel.
You may respond to this message by 3pm, CST, Friday, August 31, 2020 stating you would like to bring your account back to good standing. At that time, the segments will be re-priced based on your intended travel and we will send you the information so that you may make the appropriate reimbursement for the travel provided. Failure to return the account to good standing or to reply, will result in the termination of your AAdvantage® membership and all its benefits, including all remaining AAdvantage® miles in your account and any award tickets issued from it.
As an analyst with American Airlines, one of my responsibilities is investigating violations of the General AAdvantage® Program Conditions. An audit of your AAdvantage account, determined that you have engaged in the practice known as ‘Hidden City ticketing’; the purchase of a fare to a point beyond your actual destination. Hidden city ticketing is explicitly defined in AA’s Conditions of Carriage as a violation of ticket validity. The Terms and Conditions of the AAdvantage program further state that compliance with the Conditions of Carriage is compulsory for participation in the AAdvantage program. As such, AAdvantage account XXXXXX is restricted, pending the outcome of our investigation. You may review the terms and conditions of the AAdvantage ® program (several parts of the terms and conditions are noted below) by clicking the link below or by copying and pasting it into your browser.
The audit of your account XXXXXwas completed on August xx, 2020. The following reservations were not issued in compliance with the AAdvantage Terms & Conditions, Conditions of Carriage or AA.com Site Usage policy:
52 HIDDEN CITY TICKETS (Included each one of the flights they believe is a hidden city ticket)
Not unlike other commodities, airline seats are market priced. A seat on a non-stop flight is a premium product and commands a higher price. Seats in connecting markets must be priced competitively and hence can be substantially cheaper. The ill-effects of point beyond ticketing are two-fold; the customer receives the flight for a price for which they aren’t entitled and a seat is spoiled on the separate connecting flight. An airline ticket constitutes a contract and the terms of that contract are stated explicitly in the Conditions of Carriage. Please see excerpts below.
Mr.XXXXX, these actions have resulted in clear and considerable losses to American Airlines. In addition to our loss for the travel provided, tickets booked through prohibited practices are considered fraudulent, and therefore not eligible to accrue mileage. In this case, our loss is further compounded through the Elite mileage accruals, benefits, and services used that were not otherwise available. Generally, violations of this nature subject the AAdvantage account to termination. However, we are willing to provide you with an opportunity to restore an equitable relationship through restitution for the loss on your identified travel.
You may respond to this message by 3pm, CST, Friday, August 31, 2020 stating you would like to bring your account back to good standing. At that time, the segments will be re-priced based on your intended travel and we will send you the information so that you may make the appropriate reimbursement for the travel provided. Failure to return the account to good standing or to reply, will result in the termination of your AAdvantage® membership and all its benefits, including all remaining AAdvantage® miles in your account and any award tickets issued from it.
FAQ: Skipping Segment, Hidden City / Point Beyond / Throw Away Ticketing (master thd)
Aug 15, 2017, 8:59 pm
#136
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,439
There are all kinds of things that the airline considers fraud. Examples are Hidden City, Nested Ticketing and this one: Throw away return.
If you do it once, no one will notice and no one will care. People's plans change, legitimately. People get sick, have a family or business emergency, meet up with a long-lost love, whatever.
It's when you make a habit of "getting sick" every Friday at the same time the airline will start to notice and start to care. They are losing revenue to a repeated fraudulent (as defined by the airline) activity. Typically this happens when someone is commuting back and forth on a regular basis. One incident of lost revenue is no big deal. Twenty (and counting) incidents of lost revenue becomes a very big deal.
If this is a truly one-off, I would advise the OP to just not show up for the return flight.
And, please, no discussions about whether it is really fraud or not. We had that discussion here ad nauseam.
Aug 15, 2017, 9:13 pm
#137
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: DTW/MBS
Programs: UA 1K, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Formerly Starbucks Gold
Posts: 3,525
No moral judgments here.
There are all kinds of things that the airline considers fraud. Examples are Hidden City, Nested Ticketing and this one: Throw away return.
If you do it once, no one will notice and no one will care. People's plans change, legitimately. People get sick, have a family or business emergency, meet up with a long-lost love, whatever.
It's when you make a habit of "getting sick" every Friday at the same time the airline will start to notice and start to care. They are losing revenue to a repeated fraudulent (as defined by the airline) activity. Typically this happens when someone is commuting back and forth on a regular basis. One incident of lost revenue is no big deal. Twenty (and counting) incidents of lost revenue becomes a very big deal.
If this is a truly one-off, I would advise the OP to just not show up for the return flight.
And, please, no discussions about whether it is really fraud or not. We had that discussion here ad nauseam.
There are all kinds of things that the airline considers fraud. Examples are Hidden City, Nested Ticketing and this one: Throw away return.
If you do it once, no one will notice and no one will care. People's plans change, legitimately. People get sick, have a family or business emergency, meet up with a long-lost love, whatever.
It's when you make a habit of "getting sick" every Friday at the same time the airline will start to notice and start to care. They are losing revenue to a repeated fraudulent (as defined by the airline) activity. Typically this happens when someone is commuting back and forth on a regular basis. One incident of lost revenue is no big deal. Twenty (and counting) incidents of lost revenue becomes a very big deal.
If this is a truly one-off, I would advise the OP to just not show up for the return flight.
And, please, no discussions about whether it is really fraud or not. We had that discussion here ad nauseam.
Like I said, I understand where a line can get drawn with Hidden City Ticketing, or even Intl where r/t are sometimes cheaper then one way. But not here.
Couldn't OP fly the first leg, and then cancel (if chosen) the return leg after completing the first leg for no charge? That most certainly shouldn't raise any flags.
Aug 15, 2017, 9:20 pm
#138
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
I've only seen that discussion with regards to hidden city ticketing, and with regards to throwaway ticketing like the current OJ fare USA-China-USA-Canada, where people don't intend to take the USA-Canada leg. I've never seen this with regards to a domestic r/t. Where do you consider the fraud in this? If OP could have bought A-B and B-A as separate tickets for the same price as A-B-A, I can't see how this is any type of issue at all.
Like I said, I understand where a line can get drawn with Hidden City Ticketing, or even Intl where r/t are sometimes cheaper then one way. But not here.
Couldn't OP fly the first leg, and then cancel (if chosen) the return leg after completing the first leg for no charge? That most certainly shouldn't raise any flags.
Like I said, I understand where a line can get drawn with Hidden City Ticketing, or even Intl where r/t are sometimes cheaper then one way. But not here.
Couldn't OP fly the first leg, and then cancel (if chosen) the return leg after completing the first leg for no charge? That most certainly shouldn't raise any flags.
Aug 15, 2017, 9:36 pm
#139
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 134
I have a rt domestic ticket that cost $175. My plans have changed, and I probably won't use the return portion. I talked to AA, and was told that i needed to change the rez to one way, which after a $200 change fee would cost me an additional $80.
1) what if I just keep the existing rez, fly the outbound, and simply no show for the return? Would AA try to collect the $80 after the fact?
2) i discussed this with an AA reservation agent. Is it possible/likely that she noted my circumstances in my record?
For those who see this as a moral issue, it is (barely) possible things could change such that I would indeed want to use the original return. I would rather not give up that option.
1) what if I just keep the existing rez, fly the outbound, and simply no show for the return? Would AA try to collect the $80 after the fact?
2) i discussed this with an AA reservation agent. Is it possible/likely that she noted my circumstances in my record?
For those who see this as a moral issue, it is (barely) possible things could change such that I would indeed want to use the original return. I would rather not give up that option.
Aug 16, 2017, 12:00 am
#141
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
I've only seen that discussion with regards to hidden city ticketing, and with regards to throwaway ticketing like the current OJ fare USA-China-USA-Canada, where people don't intend to take the USA-Canada leg. I've never seen this with regards to a domestic r/t. Where do you consider the fraud in this? If OP could have bought A-B and B-A as separate tickets for the same price as A-B-A, I can't see how this is any type of issue at all.
Like I said, I understand where a line can get drawn with Hidden City Ticketing, or even Intl where r/t are sometimes cheaper then one way. But not here.
Couldn't OP fly the first leg, and then cancel (if chosen) the return leg after completing the first leg for no charge? That most certainly shouldn't raise any flags.
Like I said, I understand where a line can get drawn with Hidden City Ticketing, or even Intl where r/t are sometimes cheaper then one way. But not here.
Couldn't OP fly the first leg, and then cancel (if chosen) the return leg after completing the first leg for no charge? That most certainly shouldn't raise any flags.
Calling and cancelling isn't likely to cause an issue either. But the OP called and tried to do the right thing and was pitched a change fee and fare difference.
Aug 16, 2017, 1:00 am
#142
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,159
I am dubious about calling this throw-away ticketing, because the intent at the time of booking was to fly the round trip. Based on the info presented, it is a legitimate change of plans.
I don't think anyone has mentioned that there may likely be a different situation when canceling the return after travel begins. IIRC, this routinely is treated like a "change of return with no date chosen" and results in a (possibly worthless) credit under the ticket number (with no repricing of the outbound). The change fee is not charged unless and until the return is rebooked (and the pax is free to let it expire). This is a more reasonable policy and seems logical if one thinks there might be any value in the credit or would rather not no-show.
I don't think anyone has mentioned that there may likely be a different situation when canceling the return after travel begins. IIRC, this routinely is treated like a "change of return with no date chosen" and results in a (possibly worthless) credit under the ticket number (with no repricing of the outbound). The change fee is not charged unless and until the return is rebooked (and the pax is free to let it expire). This is a more reasonable policy and seems logical if one thinks there might be any value in the credit or would rather not no-show.
Aug 16, 2017, 2:55 am
#143
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Live: IWI; Work: DCA/Everywhere; Play: LAS/SJU/MLE
Programs: AA EXP, DL PM, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Ambassador/LTP, Nat'l Exec Elite, LEYE Gold
Posts: 6,669
Also +1 to requesting a refund in the event the return is delayed, canceled, or subject to a schedule change.
Aug 16, 2017, 4:10 am
#144
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,455
I don't think anyone has mentioned that there may likely be a different situation when canceling the return after travel begins. IIRC, this routinely is treated like a "change of return with no date chosen" and results in a (possibly worthless) credit under the ticket number (with no repricing of the outbound). The change fee is not charged unless and until the return is rebooked (and the pax is free to let it expire). This is a more reasonable policy and seems logical if one thinks there might be any value in the credit or would rather not no-show.
Trying to change it will result in AA trying to charge the new one-way fare plus the change fee, which as the OP saw is likely to be more expensive.
Whereas if you simply fly the outbound then go online and cancel the return portion, your seat is cancelled and no change fee is assesed unless you try to rebook that segment in the future.
Aug 16, 2017, 4:29 am
#145
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,631
I am dubious about calling this throw-away ticketing, because the intent at the time of booking was to fly the round trip. Based on the info presented, it is a legitimate change of plans.
I don't think anyone has mentioned that there may likely be a different situation when canceling the return after travel begins. IIRC, this routinely is treated like a "change of return with no date chosen" and results in a (possibly worthless) credit under the ticket number (with no repricing of the outbound). The change fee is not charged unless and until the return is rebooked (and the pax is free to let it expire). This is a more reasonable policy and seems logical if one thinks there might be any value in the credit or would rather not no-show.
I don't think anyone has mentioned that there may likely be a different situation when canceling the return after travel begins. IIRC, this routinely is treated like a "change of return with no date chosen" and results in a (possibly worthless) credit under the ticket number (with no repricing of the outbound). The change fee is not charged unless and until the return is rebooked (and the pax is free to let it expire). This is a more reasonable policy and seems logical if one thinks there might be any value in the credit or would rather not no-show.
One-ways are often priced higher than round trips, so booking a return and using it as a one-way breaks AA's terms. "Intent" is not considered in those terms because it cannot be proved. The passenger is not "free to let it expire"---morally, OK, but not according to the terms.
You cannot do a "change of return with no date chosen" with a nonrefundable ticket.
I have thrown away portions of a ticket---many people here have. It's not pursued normally. But there's no point tying oneself in verbal knots to say throwing away part of a ticket is not throwaway ticketing.
As also pointed out upthread, this has been discussed ad nauseum previously.
Last edited by SeeBuyFly; Aug 16, 2017 at 5:00 am
Aug 16, 2017, 6:20 am
#146
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: TPA/DFW/K15
Programs: AA EXP, Mar AMB, HH LT DIA
Posts: 1,649
I am dubious about calling this throw-away ticketing, because the intent at the time of booking was to fly the round trip. Based on the info presented, it is a legitimate change of plans.
I don't think anyone has mentioned that there may likely be a different situation when canceling the return after travel begins. IIRC, this routinely is treated like a "change of return with no date chosen" and results in a (possibly worthless) credit under the ticket number (with no repricing of the outbound). The change fee is not charged unless and until the return is rebooked (and the pax is free to let it expire). This is a more reasonable policy and seems logical if one thinks there might be any value in the credit or would rather not no-show.
I don't think anyone has mentioned that there may likely be a different situation when canceling the return after travel begins. IIRC, this routinely is treated like a "change of return with no date chosen" and results in a (possibly worthless) credit under the ticket number (with no repricing of the outbound). The change fee is not charged unless and until the return is rebooked (and the pax is free to let it expire). This is a more reasonable policy and seems logical if one thinks there might be any value in the credit or would rather not no-show.
If you click the cancel button, is aa.com going to charge $80 in the OP's instance?
If not, would anyone rebook that unused return ticket if it resulted in a higher fare on rebooking?
Aug 16, 2017, 8:44 am
#147
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Programs: Chase Sapphire Reserve, WFBF
Posts: 1,573
I have a rt domestic ticket that cost $175. My plans have changed, and I probably won't use the return portion. I talked to AA, and was told that i needed to change the rez to one way, which after a $200 change fee would cost me an additional $80.
1) what if I just keep the existing rez, fly the outbound, and simply no show for the return? Would AA try to collect the $80 after the fact?
2) i discussed this with an AA reservation agent. Is it possible/likely that she noted my circumstances in my record?
For those who see this as a moral issue, it is (barely) possible things could change such that I would indeed want to use the original return. I would rather not give up that option.
1) what if I just keep the existing rez, fly the outbound, and simply no show for the return? Would AA try to collect the $80 after the fact?
2) i discussed this with an AA reservation agent. Is it possible/likely that she noted my circumstances in my record?
For those who see this as a moral issue, it is (barely) possible things could change such that I would indeed want to use the original return. I would rather not give up that option.
Edited to add: yes, the contract of carriage does allow them to assess you for the difference in fare, but in practice they don't because it would be really hard. Thus, the advice of don't do this very often and/or on very expensive tickets, where it would potentially be worth their while.
Aug 16, 2017, 10:07 am
#148
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,439
I've only seen that discussion with regards to hidden city ticketing, and with regards to throwaway ticketing like the current OJ fare USA-China-USA-Canada, where people don't intend to take the USA-Canada leg. I've never seen this with regards to a domestic r/t. Where do you consider the fraud in this?
It doesn't matter what I consider to be fraud. All that matters is what the airline considers fraud, as defined in their contract of carriage, or ultimately what a court of law might say.
Buying a ticket A-B-A, then only flying A-B is considered fraud. The passenger should either buy an A-B ticket in the first place, or pay the change fee to change the ticket. That's the official party line.
Practically, though, they don't care about one-time offenders. There are too many reasons why a person might do that once, without conscious intention to defraud the airline. They are not interested in news media stories like "My Grandma died suddenly and the airline dinged me for $200 because I stayed in town for her funeral, then rode home in the car with my mom".
The standard advice is: Do it once, don't worry, but don't make a habit of it.
Last edited by JDiver; Aug 17, 2017 at 4:07 pm Reason: Close quote
Aug 16, 2017, 10:49 am
#149
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,227
There's a very high chance this isn't throwaway ticketing at all.
AA's conditions of carriage defines the practice as "The usage of roundtrip excursion fare for one-way travel."
It might be different out of smaller markets, but I almost never see roundtrip excursion fares on domestic flights these days. If the OP booked a flight with a fare basis composed of two one-way fares, there is no throwaway ticketing, and he's not even technically violating the COC if he no-shows.
AA's conditions of carriage defines the practice as "The usage of roundtrip excursion fare for one-way travel."
It might be different out of smaller markets, but I almost never see roundtrip excursion fares on domestic flights these days. If the OP booked a flight with a fare basis composed of two one-way fares, there is no throwaway ticketing, and he's not even technically violating the COC if he no-shows.
Aug 16, 2017, 10:50 am
#150
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: VPS
Programs: IHG Diamond, Delta PM, Hilton Gold, Accor Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 7,264
Venting a bit- husband has been out of town dealing with elderly parent issues. And the day he's supposed to come back home, he packs up the rental car to go to the airport and finds himself having to go with his dad to the hospital instead. Rebooking falls upon me, no way on American's web site to alter flight plans (I assume it's too late) and I end up in phone tree purgatory when I attempt to call in an see if I can get the ticket changed.
When I'm told that the estimated call back time is somewhere around when spousal unit's flight was supposed to depart, I do what many FTer would do- check and see that United's got a viable last minute award ticket for 12.5K and fees that goes out the next day, book the United flight and hang up on the American hold queue, throwing away the return ticket. (BIL was able to get into town that night for further parent care)
So much for trying to play by the rules when understaffing on the company's part creates a scenario where you just can't 'do the right thing' with their T&Cs.
When I'm told that the estimated call back time is somewhere around when spousal unit's flight was supposed to depart, I do what many FTer would do- check and see that United's got a viable last minute award ticket for 12.5K and fees that goes out the next day, book the United flight and hang up on the American hold queue, throwing away the return ticket. (BIL was able to get into town that night for further parent care)
So much for trying to play by the rules when understaffing on the company's part creates a scenario where you just can't 'do the right thing' with their T&Cs.