Apr 18, 2013, 9:20 am
Last edit by: Prospero
FAQ: "Missing" or "Skipping Segments": Hidden City, Point Beyond and Throw Away Ticketing
Q. What will happen if I "skip" a segment?
A. Skipping an intermediate or end segment is most often referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and “skiplagging” by others; doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will at least cancel the remaining segments. If the reason for missing a segment is to drop the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called a "Hidden City / Point Beyond" ticket. American Airlines states, in the Conditions of Carriage (and more existentially in Tariff Rule 100AA):
Link to American Airlines Conditions of Carriage, Ticket Validity.
Q. What about buying a round trip and not flying the return?
"Throw away" ticketing, that is purchasing a less expensive round trip ticket with the intent of not flying the return segments ("throwing away" the return tickets) is similarly frowned upon, but may be acted upon - particularly if this becomes frequent or a pattern
Q. Do American Airlines Corporate Security / AAdvantage Fraud have people and algorithms running in the background that check for these?
Assuredly, yes. Can people be found liable for fees and/or lose their accounts / status / miles? Yes, we have had many reports on FT, and the risk increases for repeaters. Can people be criminally or civilly prosecuted? Doubtful. (Link to article on Contract Fraud.)
Q. Would I get in trouble skipping the final segment?
A. Possibly not, if you don't do this on other than the rare occasion, but there is risk.
Q. Can I short check my baggage?
A. In most cases, you may find it difficult, unless you have an overnight connection, must retrieve your baggage for customs or because your connection does not offer interlining of baggage.
Q. Will I get my EQ and Award Miles.
You will likely accrue miles for the segments you actually flew. But “skiplagging” could result in miles confiscation and potentially account closure.
Q. Can I claim the residual value for the unused segment?
Au contraire; with a hidden city / point beyond ticket, you owe AA money under their rules. United and Lufthansa have billed skiplaggers, AA may have.
Q. What has AA said they can do to me about hidden city or throwaway ticketing?
“Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.”
A highly recommended article on this topic is 3 Words on Hidden City Ticketing: Don’t Do It (link) from ExpertFlyer, 27 Feb 2019.
Archived older posts may be read here.
For Conditions of Carriage - Ticket Validity and Letter used by AA:
Q. What will happen if I "skip" a segment?
A. Skipping an intermediate or end segment is most often referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and “skiplagging” by others; doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will at least cancel the remaining segments. If the reason for missing a segment is to drop the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called a "Hidden City / Point Beyond" ticket. American Airlines states, in the Conditions of Carriage (and more existentially in Tariff Rule 100AA):
American specifically prohibits the practices commonly known as:
Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing: Purchase of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.
Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing: Purchase of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.
Q. What about buying a round trip and not flying the return?
"Throw away" ticketing, that is purchasing a less expensive round trip ticket with the intent of not flying the return segments ("throwing away" the return tickets) is similarly frowned upon, but may be acted upon - particularly if this becomes frequent or a pattern
Q. Do American Airlines Corporate Security / AAdvantage Fraud have people and algorithms running in the background that check for these?
Assuredly, yes. Can people be found liable for fees and/or lose their accounts / status / miles? Yes, we have had many reports on FT, and the risk increases for repeaters. Can people be criminally or civilly prosecuted? Doubtful. (Link to article on Contract Fraud.)
Q. Would I get in trouble skipping the final segment?
A. Possibly not, if you don't do this on other than the rare occasion, but there is risk.
Q. Can I short check my baggage?
A. In most cases, you may find it difficult, unless you have an overnight connection, must retrieve your baggage for customs or because your connection does not offer interlining of baggage.
Q. Will I get my EQ and Award Miles.
You will likely accrue miles for the segments you actually flew. But “skiplagging” could result in miles confiscation and potentially account closure.
Q. Can I claim the residual value for the unused segment?
Au contraire; with a hidden city / point beyond ticket, you owe AA money under their rules. United and Lufthansa have billed skiplaggers, AA may have.
Q. What has AA said they can do to me about hidden city or throwaway ticketing?
“Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.”
A highly recommended article on this topic is 3 Words on Hidden City Ticketing: Don’t Do It (link) from ExpertFlyer, 27 Feb 2019.
Archived older posts may be read here.
For Conditions of Carriage - Ticket Validity and Letter used by AA:
AA Hidden City and Point Beyond Ticketing:
Skipping an intermediate or end segment is referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will generally cancel the remaining segments, and if it is dropping the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called the "Hidden City" ticket.
The entire Conditions of Carriage, the contract that governs your ticket (in additon to the Detailed Fare Rules attached to your fare class and readable prior to purchase), are here: CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE.
The specific language regarding Hidden City and Point Beyond Ticketing is here:
TICKET VALIDITY - COMPLIANCE WITH TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SALE
Tickets are valid for travel only when used in accordance with all terms and conditions of sale. Terms and conditions of sale include but are not limited to:
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
In August 2020 AA went after user HappyInTheAir561 for Hidden City Ticketing, demanding payment of $2,500 or permanent closure of his AAdvantage account and loss of 600,000 miles balance. Below is the letter (missing is the 2,500 quote), and there is an entire thread about it here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...rmination.html The user says he ultimately paid the money.
Skipping an intermediate or end segment is referred to as "Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing" by American Airlines, and doing so invalidates the contract you have with AA regarding your ticket. AA will generally cancel the remaining segments, and if it is dropping the last segment to save money on a more expensive ticket to the intermediate destination, it is called the "Hidden City" ticket.
The entire Conditions of Carriage, the contract that governs your ticket (in additon to the Detailed Fare Rules attached to your fare class and readable prior to purchase), are here: CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE.
The specific language regarding Hidden City and Point Beyond Ticketing is here:
TICKET VALIDITY - COMPLIANCE WITH TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SALE
Tickets are valid for travel only when used in accordance with all terms and conditions of sale. Terms and conditions of sale include but are not limited to:
- The passenger's itinerary, as stated on the ticket or in the passenger's reservation record,
- Any requirement that the passenger stay over a specified date or length of time (for example, Saturday night or weekend) at the destination specified on the ticket.
- Any special purpose or status (for example, age in the case of senior citizen or children's discounts, military status in the case of a military fare, official government business in the case of a government fare, or attendance at a qualified event in the case of a meeting or convention fare) that entitles the passenger to a special or reduced rate, or
- Any other requirement associated with the passenger's fare level.
- If used for travel to a destination other than that specified on the ticket,
- If the passenger fails to comply with applicable stay-over requirements,
- If the passenger does not meet the purpose or status requirement associated with the fare category on the ticket, or
- If American determines that the ticket has been purchased or used in a manner designed to circumvent applicable fare rules.
- Back to Back Ticketing: The combination of two or more roundtrip excursion fares end to end for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements.
- Throwaway Ticketing: The usage of roundtrip excursion fare for one-way travel, and
- Hidden City/Point Beyond Ticketing: Purchase of a fare from a point before the passenger's actual origin or to a point beyond the passenger's actual destination.
- Duplicate and Impossible/Illogical Bookings: Duplicate or impossible/illogical American Airlines bookings are prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines. A duplicate or impossible/illogical booking includes, but is not limited to, bookings for the same passenger on flights traveling on or about the same date between one or more of the same or nearby origin and/or destination (such as JFKDFW and LGADFW or DFWLAX and DFWONT), or bookings with connections that depart before the arrival of the inbound flight.
- Fraudulent, Fictitious and Abusive Bookings: Fraudulent, fictitious and/or abusive bookings are prohibited. These types of bookings are defined as any bookings made without having been requested by or on behalf of the named passenger. Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Where a ticket is invalidated as the result of the passenger's non-compliance with any term or condition of sale, American has the right in its sole discretion to:
- Cancel any remaining portion of the passenger's itinerary,
- Confiscate unused flight coupons,
- Refuse to board the passenger or check the passenger's luggage, or
- Assess the passenger for the reasonable remaining value of the ticket, which shall be no less than the difference between the fare actually paid and the lowest fare applicable to the passenger's actual itinerary
Dear ,
Let me take the opportunity to clarify American Airlines position on hidden city or point beyond ticketing. Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical (sic). It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores. Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.
Because we compete with other airlines with different route structures, we sometimes find it necessary to give a traveler who is traveling beyond a connecting point a better price than travelers who are just traveling to the connecting point. For example, a passenger who is traveling to Austin, Texas from Los Angeles can go on one airline via Phoenix for a price that is lower than the cost of traveling on American between Los Angeles and Dallas. If we want to offer the same price to Austin as the other airline, but the only way we can get travelers there is via Dallas, we find ourselves charging the Austin passengers less than the Dallas passengers.
Although the issuance and usage of hidden city tickets is not illegal in the sense that one could be fined or sent to jail by the government, it is unethical and a breach of a passengers (sic) contract with AA. Both tariff rule 100AA and American's Condition of Carriage, which are incorporated into every ticket sold by American as part of our agreement to carry the passenger named on the ticket, bar hidden city ticketing. In addition, it violates the agencies' contract to act as an agent for American Airlines.
If American Airlines continues to lose revenue as a result of hidden city transactions, the fares we charge must inevitably rise.
Sincerely,
Let me take the opportunity to clarify American Airlines position on hidden city or point beyond ticketing. Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical (sic). It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores. Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.
Because we compete with other airlines with different route structures, we sometimes find it necessary to give a traveler who is traveling beyond a connecting point a better price than travelers who are just traveling to the connecting point. For example, a passenger who is traveling to Austin, Texas from Los Angeles can go on one airline via Phoenix for a price that is lower than the cost of traveling on American between Los Angeles and Dallas. If we want to offer the same price to Austin as the other airline, but the only way we can get travelers there is via Dallas, we find ourselves charging the Austin passengers less than the Dallas passengers.
Although the issuance and usage of hidden city tickets is not illegal in the sense that one could be fined or sent to jail by the government, it is unethical and a breach of a passengers (sic) contract with AA. Both tariff rule 100AA and American's Condition of Carriage, which are incorporated into every ticket sold by American as part of our agreement to carry the passenger named on the ticket, bar hidden city ticketing. In addition, it violates the agencies' contract to act as an agent for American Airlines.
If American Airlines continues to lose revenue as a result of hidden city transactions, the fares we charge must inevitably rise.
Sincerely,
Mr. XXXX,
As an analyst with American Airlines, one of my responsibilities is investigating violations of the General AAdvantage® Program Conditions. An audit of your AAdvantage account, determined that you have engaged in the practice known as ‘Hidden City ticketing’; the purchase of a fare to a point beyond your actual destination. Hidden city ticketing is explicitly defined in AA’s Conditions of Carriage as a violation of ticket validity. The Terms and Conditions of the AAdvantage program further state that compliance with the Conditions of Carriage is compulsory for participation in the AAdvantage program. As such, AAdvantage account XXXXXX is restricted, pending the outcome of our investigation. You may review the terms and conditions of the AAdvantage ® program (several parts of the terms and conditions are noted below) by clicking the link below or by copying and pasting it into your browser.
The audit of your account XXXXXwas completed on August xx, 2020. The following reservations were not issued in compliance with the AAdvantage Terms & Conditions, Conditions of Carriage or AA.com Site Usage policy:
52 HIDDEN CITY TICKETS (Included each one of the flights they believe is a hidden city ticket)
Not unlike other commodities, airline seats are market priced. A seat on a non-stop flight is a premium product and commands a higher price. Seats in connecting markets must be priced competitively and hence can be substantially cheaper. The ill-effects of point beyond ticketing are two-fold; the customer receives the flight for a price for which they aren’t entitled and a seat is spoiled on the separate connecting flight. An airline ticket constitutes a contract and the terms of that contract are stated explicitly in the Conditions of Carriage. Please see excerpts below.
Mr.XXXXX, these actions have resulted in clear and considerable losses to American Airlines. In addition to our loss for the travel provided, tickets booked through prohibited practices are considered fraudulent, and therefore not eligible to accrue mileage. In this case, our loss is further compounded through the Elite mileage accruals, benefits, and services used that were not otherwise available. Generally, violations of this nature subject the AAdvantage account to termination. However, we are willing to provide you with an opportunity to restore an equitable relationship through restitution for the loss on your identified travel.
You may respond to this message by 3pm, CST, Friday, August 31, 2020 stating you would like to bring your account back to good standing. At that time, the segments will be re-priced based on your intended travel and we will send you the information so that you may make the appropriate reimbursement for the travel provided. Failure to return the account to good standing or to reply, will result in the termination of your AAdvantage® membership and all its benefits, including all remaining AAdvantage® miles in your account and any award tickets issued from it.
As an analyst with American Airlines, one of my responsibilities is investigating violations of the General AAdvantage® Program Conditions. An audit of your AAdvantage account, determined that you have engaged in the practice known as ‘Hidden City ticketing’; the purchase of a fare to a point beyond your actual destination. Hidden city ticketing is explicitly defined in AA’s Conditions of Carriage as a violation of ticket validity. The Terms and Conditions of the AAdvantage program further state that compliance with the Conditions of Carriage is compulsory for participation in the AAdvantage program. As such, AAdvantage account XXXXXX is restricted, pending the outcome of our investigation. You may review the terms and conditions of the AAdvantage ® program (several parts of the terms and conditions are noted below) by clicking the link below or by copying and pasting it into your browser.
The audit of your account XXXXXwas completed on August xx, 2020. The following reservations were not issued in compliance with the AAdvantage Terms & Conditions, Conditions of Carriage or AA.com Site Usage policy:
52 HIDDEN CITY TICKETS (Included each one of the flights they believe is a hidden city ticket)
Not unlike other commodities, airline seats are market priced. A seat on a non-stop flight is a premium product and commands a higher price. Seats in connecting markets must be priced competitively and hence can be substantially cheaper. The ill-effects of point beyond ticketing are two-fold; the customer receives the flight for a price for which they aren’t entitled and a seat is spoiled on the separate connecting flight. An airline ticket constitutes a contract and the terms of that contract are stated explicitly in the Conditions of Carriage. Please see excerpts below.
Mr.XXXXX, these actions have resulted in clear and considerable losses to American Airlines. In addition to our loss for the travel provided, tickets booked through prohibited practices are considered fraudulent, and therefore not eligible to accrue mileage. In this case, our loss is further compounded through the Elite mileage accruals, benefits, and services used that were not otherwise available. Generally, violations of this nature subject the AAdvantage account to termination. However, we are willing to provide you with an opportunity to restore an equitable relationship through restitution for the loss on your identified travel.
You may respond to this message by 3pm, CST, Friday, August 31, 2020 stating you would like to bring your account back to good standing. At that time, the segments will be re-priced based on your intended travel and we will send you the information so that you may make the appropriate reimbursement for the travel provided. Failure to return the account to good standing or to reply, will result in the termination of your AAdvantage® membership and all its benefits, including all remaining AAdvantage® miles in your account and any award tickets issued from it.
FAQ: Skipping Segment, Hidden City / Point Beyond / Throw Away Ticketing (master thd)
Mar 6, 2019, 11:19 am
#376
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: Hilton - Diamond, IHG - Spire Amb
Posts: 901
Please give me a break and put your money where your mouth is. If you have AA miles I’ll happily buy some from you for a first class long haul flight. When I’ve completed my travel are you ok with me letting AA know that we’ve never met, that you sold me some of your miles, and that you’re convinced that the airline won’t come after you and shut down your account. Do we have a deal?
Mar 6, 2019, 2:27 pm
#378
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,909
Not sure if selling miles is a good analogy but if i find reports of aa going after skiplaggers i may see things differently.
Westjet and southwest posted openly some time ago that ppl can get off as they please so unless things changed recently the industry policies vary.
imo airlines that openly try to enforce this will have more to lose in bad publicity so they are more likely to pursue it in a passive aggressive way - scaring tactics, refusing to short check bags, threaten irrops complications etc
Westjet and southwest posted openly some time ago that ppl can get off as they please so unless things changed recently the industry policies vary.
imo airlines that openly try to enforce this will have more to lose in bad publicity so they are more likely to pursue it in a passive aggressive way - scaring tactics, refusing to short check bags, threaten irrops complications etc
Mar 6, 2019, 2:43 pm
#379
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: AA EXP, Amex Plat
Posts: 572
you make such absolute statements (you are wrong) while failing to prove your side.
lets consider the broader thrust of your argument - if a company puts a “contract” with their product and service you are duty bound to follow it completely.
but this position has consistently been found to be wrong in broad swaths of the commerce in the US. Since you fail to provide examples of your case I will provide examples backing up my position.
- software shrink wrap license agreements said you couldn’t sell your copy - courts found this position to be wrong
- airlines went after skiplagged for helping facilitate this exact behavior and lost the airlines lost
- overseas the airline just lost the first attempt at this and while still possibly pursuing it they did lose
- copying of movies for personal use was attempted to be prosecuted and pursued by the movie companies and with shrink wrap license agreements and they lost
- companies have tried to say that you cannot leave negative feedback if you use their service - and have been defeated.
- many different industries have tried to say that by using their service or product you give up the right to sue and have to go through arbitration - and this have many times been proven to not be correct and not enforceable
instead of arguing about individual examples, I present the broader narrative that just because a company puts something in their “contract of carriage” does not mean that it is the same as a contract one may enter into with an individual party and that individual portions of this “contract of carriage” may not be enforceable or correct as the airline claims they are.
- You agree to the CoC when you purchase a ticket, creating an enforceable contract between you and the airline. An airline can sue you to enforce the CoC if it believes you have breached the CoC. Likewise, you can sue the airline if you believe it has breached the CoC. However, just because you sue someone, doesn't mean that you will win.
- Just because a contract (here the CoC) says something, does not mean that it is actually enforceable. It is very common for lawyers to put unenforceable clauses into contracts because, frankly, it costs a lot of money to sustain a contract suit (at least in the US where each side usually pays its own fees) and often consumers don't know what is enforceable and what isn't.
- As Carl Christensen notes, there are numerous instances where courts have thrown out clauses in contracts as unconscionable or invalid for other reasons. For example, if the CoC required you to pay five-million dollars if you missed your flight, a court would most certainly throw out this clause as unconscionable or as an unenforceable "penalty" that has no correlation to the damage actually suffered.
- However, I do not agree with all of the examples Carl gives, since not all of them relate to contractual issues:
- My understanding of the skipplagged case is that it failed because for reasons unrelated to the CoC. Since UA had no CoC with Aktarer Zaman (the guy behind Skipplagged) it could not sue him for breach of contract. Rather, it sued him on unfair competition and "deceptive behavior" claims. I believe the case was dismissed for procedural reasons.
- In the Lufthansa example, my understanding of that case is that LH lost on procedural reasons, not substantive reasons. And, in any event, LH is appealing. From my understanding of the case, LH has a much stronger position against the individual passenger than UA did against Skipplagged. I don't know enough about the relevant EU law to have an opinion on how this case will come out.
- On a practical level, lawsuits to enforce contracts cost money and can cause reputational damage. In the LH example, it will certainly cost the airline more in money and/or reputation than it lost due to the hidden city ticket. LH is obviously looking to make an example of this passenger to hopefully stop others from doing the same. That being said, I do not see it as a sustainable business model for airlines to continuously go after passengers for the fare difference since the legal fees and reputational harm will almost certainly be higher than the recovery (especially in "each side pays their own legal fees" jurisdictions).
Mar 6, 2019, 7:03 pm
#381
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
Programs: AA (Life Plat), Marriott (Life Titanium) and every other US program
Posts: 6,411
This discussion is very odd. It is one of those that makes me realize how little non-lawyers understand about the law (yes, it surprises me). It is absolutely true that if a CoC had a $5 million penalty for not appearing at your flight that a court would likely hold it to be unenforceable on any number of grounds. HOWEVER, that has almost nothing to do with whether, for example, a hidden city limitation is enforceable. And many of the examples by Carl are wrong, while many of them are correct. For example, contrary to what he says, shrink-wrap licenses were mostly found enforceable (for reasons I understand) and arbitration agreements are almost always enforceable (for reasons with which I drastically DISAGREE, but that doesn't mean that I don't know the direction the courts are taking). The idea that once a segment has been refunded there is nothing to worry about is just plain dumb. Almost anything can happen as a "one-off" and, as explained by Mary, many things can happen as a "ten-off." But somewhere between two and 100 (depending on the nature of the offense) someone might notice.
Mar 6, 2019, 7:14 pm
#382
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
I think that there is an argument to be made that charging someone money for not taking a flight is unconscionable, since the airline suffers no damages by you not taking a flight. Whether the penalty for not appearing for your flight is $5 million or $500 does not change this fact.
Until a court decides this one way or the other, there is no way to be sure.
However, it is abundantly clear that the arguments that "it's in the CoC and therefore it's enforceable" are incorrect. The only correct answer here is that it's undecided, and we will know for sure if and when a court rules on it.
Until a court decides this one way or the other, there is no way to be sure.
However, it is abundantly clear that the arguments that "it's in the CoC and therefore it's enforceable" are incorrect. The only correct answer here is that it's undecided, and we will know for sure if and when a court rules on it.
Mar 6, 2019, 10:57 pm
#383
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
I think that there is an argument to be made that charging someone money for not taking a flight is unconscionable, since the airline suffers no damages by you not taking a flight. Whether the penalty for not appearing for your flight is $5 million or $500 does not change this fact.
Until a court decides this one way or the other, there is no way to be sure.
However, it is abundantly clear that the arguments that "it's in the CoC and therefore it's enforceable" are incorrect. The only correct answer here is that it's undecided, and we will know for sure if and when a court rules on it.
Until a court decides this one way or the other, there is no way to be sure.
However, it is abundantly clear that the arguments that "it's in the CoC and therefore it's enforceable" are incorrect. The only correct answer here is that it's undecided, and we will know for sure if and when a court rules on it.
Mar 7, 2019, 7:47 am
#384
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: AA EXP, Amex Plat
Posts: 572
Originally Posted by sbrower
This discussion is very odd. It is one of those that makes me realize how little non-lawyers understand about the law (yes, it surprises me). It is absolutely true that if a CoC had a $5 million penalty for not appearing at your flight that a court would likely hold it to be unenforceable on any number of grounds. HOWEVER, that has almost nothing to do with whether, for example, a hidden city limitation is enforceable.
Originally Posted by sbrower
And many of the examples by Carl are wrong, while many of them are correct. For example, contrary to what he says, shrink-wrap licenses were mostly found enforceable (for reasons I understand) and arbitration agreements are almost always enforceable (for reasons with which I drastically DISAGREE, but that doesn't mean that I don't know the direction the courts are taking).
Mar 7, 2019, 8:13 am
#385
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,546
Open and Notorious
Hey guys at prefunds.aa.com.
Will you take a look at my eticket 0019999999999 & notice segment 2 remains in Open status for AA999?
AA999 had a schedule change.
Will you please refund the value of this unflown segment?
Will you take a look at my eticket 0019999999999 & notice segment 2 remains in Open status for AA999?
AA999 had a schedule change.
Will you please refund the value of this unflown segment?
Mar 7, 2019, 2:07 pm
#386
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Since you are not a moderator of this forum, I don't think you are in a position to say what is tolerated and what isn't. Telling someone what to do and admonishing them is not constructive and likely violates Flyertalk Rules 12.1 and 13. I leave that for the moderators to decide. In any event, while my statement was "obviously correct" as you put it, from reading the thread, it didn't appear that everyone understood that. Hence why I made the statement and provided further background.
Trust me, I don't think that anything that you said is "clearly correct". Quite the opposite, in fact.
Apr 5, 2019, 7:29 am
#388
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2
Hidden city ticket with overlapping flight (AA/IB)
Hello,
I would need some help, advices on this.
I booked a return flight BCN-CLT-JFK (AA) and JFK-MAD-BCN (IB) for my parents to visit me in IAH with the idea of skipping CLT-JFK and get a CLT-IAH. They will use the entire JFK-MAD-BCN (IB) for the return.
- My problem is that if I want to book the CLT-IAH the same day they arrive to CLT (3h layover), this needs to be with AA at the same time they should be flying to JFK. Would it be any problem checking two different flights with AA at the same time?
- My other option is for them to stay a night at CLT and flying next day CLT-IAH with AA. Will AA realize they are doing a hidden city and cancel the return flight with IBERIA. Or should I book with another airline (more expensive)?
Please, any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
I would need some help, advices on this.
I booked a return flight BCN-CLT-JFK (AA) and JFK-MAD-BCN (IB) for my parents to visit me in IAH with the idea of skipping CLT-JFK and get a CLT-IAH. They will use the entire JFK-MAD-BCN (IB) for the return.
- My problem is that if I want to book the CLT-IAH the same day they arrive to CLT (3h layover), this needs to be with AA at the same time they should be flying to JFK. Would it be any problem checking two different flights with AA at the same time?
- My other option is for them to stay a night at CLT and flying next day CLT-IAH with AA. Will AA realize they are doing a hidden city and cancel the return flight with IBERIA. Or should I book with another airline (more expensive)?
Please, any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
Apr 5, 2019, 8:01 am
#389
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 29,585
Hello,
I would need some help, advices on this.
I booked a return flight BCN-CLT-JFK (AA) and JFK-MAD-BCN (IB) for my parents to visit me in IAH with the idea of skipping CLT-JFK and get a CLT-IAH. They will use the entire JFK-MAD-BCN (IB) for the return.
- My problem is that if I want to book the CLT-IAH the same day they arrive to CLT (3h layover), this needs to be with AA at the same time they should be flying to JFK. Would it be any problem checking two different flights with AA at the same time?
- My other option is for them to stay a night at CLT and flying next day CLT-IAH with AA. Will AA realize they are doing a hidden city and cancel the return flight with IBERIA. Or should I book with another airline (more expensive)?
Please, any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
I would need some help, advices on this.
I booked a return flight BCN-CLT-JFK (AA) and JFK-MAD-BCN (IB) for my parents to visit me in IAH with the idea of skipping CLT-JFK and get a CLT-IAH. They will use the entire JFK-MAD-BCN (IB) for the return.
- My problem is that if I want to book the CLT-IAH the same day they arrive to CLT (3h layover), this needs to be with AA at the same time they should be flying to JFK. Would it be any problem checking two different flights with AA at the same time?
- My other option is for them to stay a night at CLT and flying next day CLT-IAH with AA. Will AA realize they are doing a hidden city and cancel the return flight with IBERIA. Or should I book with another airline (more expensive)?
Please, any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
Last edited by nsx; Apr 5, 2019 at 9:31 am Reason: move from WN to AA
Apr 5, 2019, 8:07 am
#390
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,868
airlines are getting tougher on 'impossible' flights. Even WN, who seemingly used to be unable to notice them, has started cancelling overlapping flights. I can't speak for AA specifically. I'd consider buying that leg on an unrelated airline. And, as gov1976 mentioned, if it's all part of the same itinerary, that's going to cause problems.
Last edited by nsx; Apr 5, 2019 at 9:32 am Reason: move from WN to AA