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-   -   Airbus A321 Transcon / A321T / "32B" 3 class (master thread) (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1492741-airbus-a321-transcon-a321t-32b-3-class-master-thread.html)

Adelphos Jan 24, 2017 6:16 pm

I took this flight in business class from JFK to LAX and I'm on a flight back in first to JFK now. This route is one of the reasons I switched to American from Delta as my company has a preferred contract with American on this route and I like the flight. Here are a few thoughts on business vs first.

Business class offers most of the hard and soft product of first. It has a lie flat seat, same blanket/pillow, plenty of space, good IFE, etc. The food and drink in business is very good - aside from prosecco vs champagne, you get most of what you get in first. Currently, the amenity kits are also the same.

First gives you a bigger seat, champagne and apparently better wine selection, a "starter" before your salad, a few extra entree and desert items, etc. The IFE screen is larger. More space for storage. A dedicated FA who makes sure you are taken care of, etc.

Does AA make enough differentiation between First and Business in the soft product? Probably not to justify thousands of dollars premium. I upgraded on my current flight via miles without a copay.

The main difference is privacy and crowding. The business class cabin on this route feels full generally. Meaning you always have 20 passengers in business (its always sold out) using all of the soft product. First feels more secluded. Even on my current flight (only two empty F seats), it feels like a quiet, private cabin. No seatmate you don't know next to you.

How much that privacy and quiet is worth is up to you. I don't think it would be worth it if you have a traveling companion. But it makes a noticeable difference given the popularity of business on this route. On many of my domestic first class flights, there are empty F seats, for example, and it doesn't feel busy in first. The business class cabin in this flight always is full and has people walking around and such. I think F could be worth it when using miles, SWU, whatever if you want the privacy. I wouldn't pay cash out of pocket for it.

Another funny thing is passenger reaction to the F (and J) cabins. These transcon routes are actually among the most inexpensive for the miles flown in coach. Round trip costs $300-$400. So you have a lot of value customers ogling the first and business class cabins. This has continued since the day they debuted this plane.

Fraser Jan 25, 2017 8:28 am

I'm taking my first flight on the 321T in about three weeks, JFK-LAX-JFK in J both ways. Travelling with the OH and have picked 7D/7F on the westbound, 7A/7C on the eastbound (the 4.30pm flight that gets into JFK late).

I've looked at Seatguru and poked about a bit and it seems I've not made any rookie mistakes but looking for confirmation :D The JFK-LAX is already completed booked out in J, but the LAX-JFK I could still move to 6D/F, 9A/C or 10D/F if anyone thinks those are preferable.

Thanks!

mmgm Jan 25, 2017 9:38 am


Originally Posted by Fraser (Post 27815439)
I'm taking my first flight on the 321T in about three weeks, JFK-LAX-JFK in J both ways. Travelling with the OH and have picked 7D/7F on the westbound, 7A/7C on the eastbound (the 4.30pm flight that gets into JFK late).

I've looked at Seatguru and poked about a bit and it seems I've not made any rookie mistakes but looking for confirmation :D The JFK-LAX is already completed booked out in J, but the LAX-JFK I could still move to 6D/F, 9A/C or 10D/F if anyone thinks those are preferable.

Thanks!

I usually fly in 7C. I tried row 6 once and I'm convinced there was less leg room.

JY1024 Jan 25, 2017 11:49 am

Housekeeping note: Off-topic posts have been removed from this thread.

For discussion of AA fares, international food & beverage service, and corporate contracts, please feel free to start a new thread or refer to one of the existing threads on those topics. Thanks. :) /Moderator

SJC AA Jan 25, 2017 1:30 pm


Originally Posted by mmgm (Post 27815776)
I usually fly in 7C. I tried row 6 once and I'm convinced there was less leg room.

Row 6 has different footrests; they're wider but maybe a little less long. Some people might prefer one or the other.

Row 6 has the best view; 7 is OK; the rest pretty much just overlook the wings.

crazyarmadillo Jan 25, 2017 2:37 pm


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 27812995)
I took this flight in business class from JFK to LAX and I'm on a flight back in first to JFK now. This route is one of the reasons I switched to American from Delta as my company has a preferred contract with American on this route and I like the flight. Here are a few thoughts on business vs first.

Business class offers most of the hard and soft product of first. It has a lie flat seat, same blanket/pillow, plenty of space, good IFE, etc. The food and drink in business is very good - aside from prosecco vs champagne, you get most of what you get in first. Currently, the amenity kits are also the same.

First gives you a bigger seat, champagne and apparently better wine selection, a "starter" before your salad, a few extra entree and desert items, etc. The IFE screen is larger. More space for storage. A dedicated FA who makes sure you are taken care of, etc.

Does AA make enough differentiation between First and Business in the soft product? Probably not to justify thousands of dollars premium. I upgraded on my current flight via miles without a copay.

The main difference is privacy and crowding. The business class cabin on this route feels full generally. Meaning you always have 20 passengers in business (its always sold out) using all of the soft product. First feels more secluded. Even on my current flight (only two empty F seats), it feels like a quiet, private cabin. No seatmate you don't know next to you.

How much that privacy and quiet is worth is up to you. I don't think it would be worth it if you have a traveling companion. But it makes a noticeable difference given the popularity of business on this route. On many of my domestic first class flights, there are empty F seats, for example, and it doesn't feel busy in first. The business class cabin in this flight always is full and has people walking around and such. I think F could be worth it when using miles, SWU, whatever if you want the privacy. I wouldn't pay cash out of pocket for it.

Another funny thing is passenger reaction to the F (and J) cabins. These transcon routes are actually among the most inexpensive for the miles flown in coach. Round trip costs $300-$400. So you have a lot of value customers ogling the first and business class cabins. This has continued since the day they debuted this plane.

a very good comparison of the two cabins - I would also suggest the F cabin privacy especially at 1A and 1F (if traveling with someone) and the FA dealing with less customers, are the key differentials. So if that isnt what you look for in a flight, then Biz is just as good.

I have spoken with others who travel together - they prefer Biz, so each to their own , I for one, much prefer 1af. And the crew have always been great when sitting there, even tho sometimes, they have to leave the fruit and snacks and do their paperwork at the front sometimes.

Adelphos Feb 2, 2017 6:29 am

I am planning a California leisure trip for the late summer:

JFK to LAX
LAX to SFO (I may take Alaska or Delta for this flight)
SFO to JFK

I'm seeing business class one way flights for about $1,000 and first class for about $1,300 for August. Are first class fares normally that small of a premium to business this far out?

AANYC1981 Feb 2, 2017 6:42 am


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 27854205)
I am planning a California leisure trip for the late summer:

JFK to LAX
LAX to SFO (I may take Alaska or Delta for this flight)
SFO to JFK

I'm seeing business class one way flights for about $1,000 and first class for about $1,300 for August. Are first class fares normally that small of a premium to business this far out?

IME yes.....sometimes I see First priced less than J too.

ijgordon Feb 2, 2017 7:55 am


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 27854205)
I'm seeing business class one way flights for about $1,000 and first class for about $1,300 for August. Are first class fares normally that small of a premium to business this far out?

Yeah, I don't think it's all that unusual. Probably worth paying for F, especially if you're flying alone.
Although the better routing would be JFK-SFO//LAX-JFK, since you'd then get Flagship Lounge access (or whatever it'll be called then) and Flagship check-in at both departure points. Don't think SFO has either.

DeepUnderground Feb 21, 2017 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 27854205)
I am planning a California leisure trip for the late summer:

JFK to LAX
LAX to SFO (I may take Alaska or Delta for this flight)
SFO to JFK

I'm seeing business class one way flights for about $1,000 and first class for about $1,300 for August. Are first class fares normally that small of a premium to business this far out?

Nice, when I booked the other day for a summer flight the differential was 1000 bucks.

lightbulbs Mar 8, 2017 7:45 pm

Transcon A321T profitability?
 
I've always been curious as to the economic analysis on the 321T configuration. In particular
- Three class vs Two class. What's the space efficiency difference between how F and J are configured and how much of a price premium does F need to command to be worthwhile?
- How much load factor and price premium the F and J cabins need to command to offset the low density of the plane overall. It basically flies just over half the passengers of a similarly sized 321B.
- Has AA ever released CASM and RASM stats specific to the transcon routes?
- How do the profitability numbers compare JFK/SFO/LAX/MIA? I presume LAX/JFK is the cash cow given the entertainment labor contracts?
- Ultimately did AA make a good choice compared to the configurations of DL, UA, B6?
- Does AA make much/if any money on the advance O fares in Y? Flying across the country for $130-140 seems to be a pretty good deal.

ryan182 Mar 8, 2017 7:58 pm

I don't think that AA releases details on a per-route basis. I do know that fares on this market have dropped a lot since Mint started (Thanks B9!!). I've flow in F on this route 4 times the past 12 months, 2 were J bookings upgraded to F and the others the delta between J and F on the days was small enough that it was worth paying the extra but in general the lowest you see J is ~$650 o/w and F is $1200 o/w. Given J is 2-2 and F is 1-1 and about the same length I'd guess that F occupies roughly the space of 2 J seats so the premium of 2x from a space perspective probably makes sense. What probably really matters is how many in F or J are on I or A fares vs F/J since the delta between the lowest J and a flexible J fare is pretty high ($650 vs $3K)

I think I recall that sometime ago the union removed the requirement for 3 cabin F, though I'm sure some still get it but not sure how much the fact that AA has F and others do not is a factor.

JDiver Mar 8, 2017 8:09 pm

I doubt AA releases such information, and considers it highly proprietary.

lightbulbs Mar 8, 2017 10:14 pm


Originally Posted by ryan182 (Post 28011708)
Given J is 2-2 and F is 1-1 and about the same length I'd guess that F occupies roughly the space of 2 J seats so the premium of 2x from a space perspective probably makes sense.

I also originally thought it might be 2:1 but in thinking about it more, I think the F cabin is angled a lot more than the J cabin such that the length of the seat is achieved by having more of the seat be center of aisle to window vs. along the cockpit to tail axis. If that were the case, the 5 rows of F, if replaced by J might only be 3-4 rows of J. Which would mean 10 F seats take the same fuselage space as maybe 12-16 J seats. Maybe someone has measurements or we can eyeball by looking at the number of windows that span the cabin or overhead bins!

SFO_FT Mar 8, 2017 10:28 pm

Actually, domestic average airfares, by route and carrier, are collected and distributed by the DOT. Carriers are required to provide this data to the government and anyone can see it. For example, between SF and NY for one of the quarters in 2016, the average UA fare was $412 while for Virgin America it was $298.


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