Last edit by: Prospero
AA Transcontinental Three Class Service Airbus A321 "A321T"
NOTE: The "32B" designation is used by ICAO for A321 (-100 and -200) family with "Sharklet" wingtips; the use of "32B" by AA has been applied to "321T", the three class aircraft described here and used on transcon service, and for the "A321", the two class A321S used in "normal" service as well as the A321H ETOPS version used on West Coast-Hawai'i service. ("321" is used by AA to describe non-Sharklets equipped LUS A321s.)
A subset of A321-200 aircraft has a three class configuration (with First and Business with horizontal full flat seats, as well as Main Cabin Extra and Main Cabin) for use on transcontinental JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO flights. First delivery was N101NN, Fleet No. 783, 21 Nov 2013. Inaugural flights were AA118 Lv LAX 0700 Ar JFK 1530 Tue 7 Jan 2014 and AA133 Lv JFK 1545 Ar LAX 1925. SFO-LAX began 6 Mar 2014.
These aircraft, referred to as "A321T" or "321T", have 10F in 1 + 1 layout, 20J in 2 + 2, and 72Y in 3 + 3 configuration (MCE rows 11-16); coded "321T" (32B in timetables). F has Zodiac Skylounge solo suite seats with shells similar to the 77W Business suites, J have B/E Aerospace Diamond Parallel horizontal lie flat seats; MCE and Main Cabin Recaro slimline seats. Pets have two small cabins flanking the aisle forward in F, called "Cuddle Class".
In Flight Entertainment is Audio-Video on Demand (AVOD), provided by Thales in its TopSeries system, with 15.4" touch screens offering "200 movies, 180 TV programs, more than 350 audio selections, up to 20 games, and 3-D moving maps" free in F and J, and $4.00 for most movies and TV in Y on an 8.9" touch screen. These are also controlled by universal remote controls. Bose QuietComfort headsets are provided in F and J; these are recovered by crew about an hour from your destination. (Unfortunately, the IFE system has turned out to be extremely unreliable; currently, do not expect to experience seamless AVOD on these aircraft. Some have reported successfully resetting by holding down "O" button over ten seconds on remote and the same procedure for the screen power on button.)
WiFi is provided by GoGo ATG-4 (cellular) service, and is not very fast.
At seat power includes USB 5 VDC and universal 110 VAC outlets. The outlets are awkwardly placed by your head in J, in the seatback in front of you in coach.
Also note: Airbus A320 family - 156 inches (395 cm) outside width
Boeing 737 /757 - 148 inches (380 cm) outside diameter.
Which transcontinental AA flights are operated by A321-200 "A321T" three class aircraft?
All transcontinental non-stop flights scheduled JFK <-> LAX
JFK<-> SFOare operated by three class Airbus A321-200 "32B" (A321-200 with "Sharklets" wingtip devices.
No other regularly scheduled transcontinental non-stop flights (e.g. MIA-LAX, PHL-LAX or -SFO, etc.) use the three class A321-200 "A321T" - even if a "32B" might be used in the future, it will merely be a two class LAA A321-200 aircraft (with Sharklets).
For further discussion on seats, service, etc. on three class A321T aircraft, please see:
Best Business / First seat on LAA transcon Airbus A321 / A321T / "32B" (consolidated)
Best Economy / MCE seat on LAA transcon Airbus A321 / A321T / "32B" (consolidated)
For older posts, see the Archive thread here.
NOTE: The "32B" designation is used by ICAO for A321 (-100 and -200) family with "Sharklet" wingtips; the use of "32B" by AA has been applied to "321T", the three class aircraft described here and used on transcon service, and for the "A321", the two class A321S used in "normal" service as well as the A321H ETOPS version used on West Coast-Hawai'i service. ("321" is used by AA to describe non-Sharklets equipped LUS A321s.)
A subset of A321-200 aircraft has a three class configuration (with First and Business with horizontal full flat seats, as well as Main Cabin Extra and Main Cabin) for use on transcontinental JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO flights. First delivery was N101NN, Fleet No. 783, 21 Nov 2013. Inaugural flights were AA118 Lv LAX 0700 Ar JFK 1530 Tue 7 Jan 2014 and AA133 Lv JFK 1545 Ar LAX 1925. SFO-LAX began 6 Mar 2014.
These aircraft, referred to as "A321T" or "321T", have 10F in 1 + 1 layout, 20J in 2 + 2, and 72Y in 3 + 3 configuration (MCE rows 11-16); coded "321T" (32B in timetables). F has Zodiac Skylounge solo suite seats with shells similar to the 77W Business suites, J have B/E Aerospace Diamond Parallel horizontal lie flat seats; MCE and Main Cabin Recaro slimline seats. Pets have two small cabins flanking the aisle forward in F, called "Cuddle Class".
In Flight Entertainment is Audio-Video on Demand (AVOD), provided by Thales in its TopSeries system, with 15.4" touch screens offering "200 movies, 180 TV programs, more than 350 audio selections, up to 20 games, and 3-D moving maps" free in F and J, and $4.00 for most movies and TV in Y on an 8.9" touch screen. These are also controlled by universal remote controls. Bose QuietComfort headsets are provided in F and J; these are recovered by crew about an hour from your destination. (Unfortunately, the IFE system has turned out to be extremely unreliable; currently, do not expect to experience seamless AVOD on these aircraft. Some have reported successfully resetting by holding down "O" button over ten seconds on remote and the same procedure for the screen power on button.)
WiFi is provided by GoGo ATG-4 (cellular) service, and is not very fast.
At seat power includes USB 5 VDC and universal 110 VAC outlets. The outlets are awkwardly placed by your head in J, in the seatback in front of you in coach.
Also note: Airbus A320 family - 156 inches (395 cm) outside width
Boeing 737 /757 - 148 inches (380 cm) outside diameter.
Which transcontinental AA flights are operated by A321-200 "A321T" three class aircraft?
All transcontinental non-stop flights scheduled JFK <-> LAX
JFK<-> SFOare operated by three class Airbus A321-200 "32B" (A321-200 with "Sharklets" wingtip devices.
No other regularly scheduled transcontinental non-stop flights (e.g. MIA-LAX, PHL-LAX or -SFO, etc.) use the three class A321-200 "A321T" - even if a "32B" might be used in the future, it will merely be a two class LAA A321-200 aircraft (with Sharklets).
For further discussion on seats, service, etc. on three class A321T aircraft, please see:
Best Business / First seat on LAA transcon Airbus A321 / A321T / "32B" (consolidated)
Best Economy / MCE seat on LAA transcon Airbus A321 / A321T / "32B" (consolidated)
For older posts, see the Archive thread here.
Airbus A321 Transcon / A321T / "32B" 3 class (master thread)
#16
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Actually, domestic average airfares, by route and carrier, are collected and distributed by the DOT. Carriers are required to provide this data to the government and anyone can see it. For example, between SF and NY for one of the quarters in 2016, the average UA fare was $412 while for Virgin America it was $298.
#17
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Posts: 3,434
Agree. To estimate the profitability, one would take the fares, estimated load factor and seat capacity and then back out a cost per seat mile, which also is available publicly. Network carriers are always challenged to determine individual route profitability, but at least one can get a general feel for profitability. At those fares, I would assume those routes are profitable.
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
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I don't think that AA releases details on a per-route basis. I do know that fares on this market have dropped a lot since Mint started (Thanks B9!!). I've flow in F on this route 4 times the past 12 months, 2 were J bookings upgraded to F and the others the delta between J and F on the days was small enough that it was worth paying the extra but in general the lowest you see J is ~$650 o/w and F is $1200 o/w. Given J is 2-2 and F is 1-1 and about the same length I'd guess that F occupies roughly the space of 2 J seats so the premium of 2x from a space perspective probably makes sense. What probably really matters is how many in F or J are on I or A fares vs F/J since the delta between the lowest J and a flexible J fare is pretty high ($650 vs $3K)
I think I recall that sometime ago the union removed the requirement for 3 cabin F, though I'm sure some still get it but not sure how much the fact that AA has F and others do not is a factor.
I think I recall that sometime ago the union removed the requirement for 3 cabin F, though I'm sure some still get it but not sure how much the fact that AA has F and others do not is a factor.
#20
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 544
I overheard one of the FAs talking recently on a transcon. Sounds like they might be considering removing a number of F seats and putting in more J seats. They would still have F but it would be much smaller only a couple of rows. Has anyone else heard this?
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Posts: 28,190
I've always been curious as to the economic analysis on the 321T configuration. In particular
- Three class vs Two class. What's the space efficiency difference between how F and J are configured and how much of a price premium does F need to command to be worthwhile?
- How much load factor and price premium the F and J cabins need to command to offset the low density of the plane overall. It basically flies just over half the passengers of a similarly sized 321B.
- Has AA ever released CASM and RASM stats specific to the transcon routes?
- How do the profitability numbers compare JFK/SFO/LAX/MIA? I presume LAX/JFK is the cash cow given the entertainment labor contracts?
- Ultimately did AA make a good choice compared to the configurations of DL, UA, B6?
- Does AA make much/if any money on the advance O fares in Y? Flying across the country for $130-140 seems to be a pretty good deal.
- Three class vs Two class. What's the space efficiency difference between how F and J are configured and how much of a price premium does F need to command to be worthwhile?
- How much load factor and price premium the F and J cabins need to command to offset the low density of the plane overall. It basically flies just over half the passengers of a similarly sized 321B.
- Has AA ever released CASM and RASM stats specific to the transcon routes?
- How do the profitability numbers compare JFK/SFO/LAX/MIA? I presume LAX/JFK is the cash cow given the entertainment labor contracts?
- Ultimately did AA make a good choice compared to the configurations of DL, UA, B6?
- Does AA make much/if any money on the advance O fares in Y? Flying across the country for $130-140 seems to be a pretty good deal.
AA is a big carrier with lots of fleet flexibility. The observed facts that they haven't significantly changed the model - 3-class 321Ts and route frequencies comparable to what they started with a few years ago - suggests they're satisfied with it.
#22
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
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I heard that from a baggage handler and the curbside check-in guy.
#23
Join Date: Mar 2011
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I remember Doug Parker answering a question from a reporter a few years ago about if there was anything that had surprised him in a positive way about the old AA when he took over. He said that he and his team were highly skeptical of the 3 class trancon before they arrived but were very surprised and pleased with how well it did.
#26
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Looks to be real. Not surprising though, since they usually scale back a couple of transcon flights on Saturday, so this is just aircraft utilization. Similar to when they've put the A321T on JFK-BOS.
#27
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NY
Programs: AA, Hilton
Posts: 1,571
#28
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, B6 Mosaic, UA Platinum, others
Posts: 1,270
a very good comparison of the two cabins - I would also suggest the F cabin privacy especially at 1A and 1F (if traveling with someone) and the FA dealing with less customers, are the key differentials. So if that isnt what you look for in a flight, then Biz is just as good.
I have spoken with others who travel together - they prefer Biz, so each to their own , I for one, much prefer 1af. And the crew have always been great when sitting there, even tho sometimes, they have to leave the fruit and snacks and do their paperwork at the front sometimes.
I have spoken with others who travel together - they prefer Biz, so each to their own , I for one, much prefer 1af. And the crew have always been great when sitting there, even tho sometimes, they have to leave the fruit and snacks and do their paperwork at the front sometimes.
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,161
Also, I think wines are different, or at least First has real Champagne (Lanson Black on my last trips).
Either way, it's not that significant of a difference.
It's more about increased privacy/direct aisle access/no seatmate, and in theory more attentive service.
#30
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Pretty sure there's an extra entree choice in First, and plating (if not portions) are larger/nicer.
Also, I think wines are different, or at least First has real Champagne (Lanson Black on my last trips).
Either way, it's not that significant of a difference.
It's more about increased privacy/direct aisle access/no seatmate, and in theory more attentive service.
Also, I think wines are different, or at least First has real Champagne (Lanson Black on my last trips).
Either way, it's not that significant of a difference.
It's more about increased privacy/direct aisle access/no seatmate, and in theory more attentive service.
Given the choice and budget I can't imagine ever picking biz over F on this plane. I appreciate it's no so for everybody, to me it's a no-brainer.