Jul 10, 2013, 4:13 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
SIZE="4"]AA "instant upgrade" (-UP) fare
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
E.G. During irregular operations or missed connections, one may continue in that class of service if A, P, D, I etc. as applicable is available, or the passenger can take a voluntary downgrade to the lower class of service / Y on an earlier flight. Some may do this if waiting for A, P or I requires one or more overnights.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
One explanatory post (15 Apr 2015) might be:
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
Instant Upgrade tickets are booked in the Main Cabin. However, Instant upgrade ticketholders who travel in the Main Cabin due to an involuntary seat change, equipment change, routing change, flight cancellation, or missed connection as a result of a late incoming flight may request a travel voucher. The voucher value shall be equal to $0.10 per mile, or $50, whichever is greater, for each flight segment flown in the downgraded cabin. Refunds will be rounded to the nearest whole dollar amount, and can be requested at www.aa.com/refunds.
...
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
The fare rules for both tickets provide the following as the last entry:
Why does this matter? Because if I buy either of these tickets and then I decide that I want to fly an earlier or later flight, these fares will not permit me to walk up to the counter and claim a last-minute F seat if my capacity-controlled inventory is not available. For instance, if that last F seat is in F (not P or A), then I'd have to pay the fare difference in order to confirm a change to that seat.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
■ First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions.
Rule Application
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
ARCHIVE: AA "instant upgrade" (-UP, YUP) fare discount First (master thd)
Jul 31, 2010, 3:13 am
#31
Join Date: Nov 2009
Programs: AA EXP - 2MM +, CO, US, UA,SPG, Hertz Presidents Club
Posts: 233
If I purchased a ticket that booked directly into "I" or "A" or "P" class, and then got involuntarily downgraded, and AA refused to refund me the difference to the lowest available coach fare on that flight, you can bet there would be a lawsuit. I might even make it a class action, because I'm sure they've tried to screw other people this way.
Think of it this way: I can buy a "Q" fare and confirm a seat in economy for $200 (one-way), or I can buy an "I" fare and confirm a seat in business class for $1000. I choose the $1000 "I" fare. If something happens and I end up flying in coach, I will be arguing for an $800 refund. What jury will refuse? The argument is pretty straightforward in the absence of any explicit language in the fare rules or contract of carriage indicating otherwise.
I'd point out that there are $2,200 one-way -UP fares on JFK-SFO that book into D inventory (fare basis YA0UPDMR). If you think AA can get away with providing coach service at that fare with no fare differential refund, you're sorely mistaken.
Think of it this way: I can buy a "Q" fare and confirm a seat in economy for $200 (one-way), or I can buy an "I" fare and confirm a seat in business class for $1000. I choose the $1000 "I" fare. If something happens and I end up flying in coach, I will be arguing for an $800 refund. What jury will refuse? The argument is pretty straightforward in the absence of any explicit language in the fare rules or contract of carriage indicating otherwise.
I'd point out that there are $2,200 one-way -UP fares on JFK-SFO that book into D inventory (fare basis YA0UPDMR). If you think AA can get away with providing coach service at that fare with no fare differential refund, you're sorely mistaken.
Have there been rulings that define what exactly defines the "ticketed cabin"? Shouldn't a "ticketed cabin" mean the cabin in which your ticket permits you to sit?
Those that use upgrade instruments like miles, copays, or purchase a specifically higher fare like an instant upgrade/ restricted business class, may be doing so on the representation that they will get an upgraded seat.
Has anyone ever had experience contesting this practice with a DOT complaint?
Jul 31, 2010, 6:55 am
#32
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA EXP, B6 Mosaic, UA Plat, Bonvoy Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,774
The misinformation really needs to be corrected here. Of course AA is going to accommodate a *UP passenger during IRROPS with any available first class seat. It's not even the slightest bit of risk that AA is going to book you onto another flight in coach while first class seats fly empty (or fly with last minute coach-fare upgrades or non-revs). It will never happen. Never.
The only issue is what happens during IRROPS when the flight the customer wants to be reaccommodated on is sold-out completly in first class. Of course AA is not going to bump a confirmed first-class passenger off the plane to accommodate the IRROPS passenger. So, AA let's the passenger decide. Fly coach on the flight you want or fly in first on the very next flight with an open first class seat. If you choose the former, that is your choice and the terms of the fare call for no refund.
The only issue is what happens during IRROPS when the flight the customer wants to be reaccommodated on is sold-out completly in first class. Of course AA is not going to bump a confirmed first-class passenger off the plane to accommodate the IRROPS passenger. So, AA let's the passenger decide. Fly coach on the flight you want or fly in first on the very next flight with an open first class seat. If you choose the former, that is your choice and the terms of the fare call for no refund.
Jul 31, 2010, 9:15 am
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,222
Code:
From: Los Angeles, CA (LAX-Los Angeles Intl.)
To: Houston, TX (IAH-George Bush Intercontinental)
Fare Basis Code: KA0UPPMR
V FARE BASIS BK FARE TRAVEL-TICKET AP MINMAX RTG
1 KA0UPPMR P‡X 582.00 ---- - -/ - 8
PASSENGER TYPE-ADT AUTO PRICE-YES
FROM-LAX TO-HOU CXR-AA TVL-05JUN11 RULE-2000 DFR/11
FARE BASIS-KA0UPPMR NORMAL FARE DIS-N VENDOR-ATP
FARE TYPE-ER OW-ECONOMY RESTRICTED
USD 541.40 0008 E26JUL10 D-INFINITY FC-KA0UPPMR FN-
SYSTEM DATES - CREATED 26JUL10/1224 EXPIRES INFINITY
And I still maintain that if one purchases a $4,400 round-trip YUP (D) fare on JFK-SFO and "voluntarily" downgrades to coach, and AA doesn't provide any refund, there are serious issues. I wonder how admissible the above "evidence" would be given it's not available to a layperson. Anyone who defends AA for collecting this much and not providing any downgrade compensation is an AApolgist, IMHO.
Jul 31, 2010, 9:47 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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What's the source of that? It's certainly not in the fare rules; I've never seen anything like that on AA.com or even ExpertFlyer. There's certainly a marketing/disclosure issue on AA.com because if you select "Business & Higher" (either restricted or flexible) in the Search By Schedule, there's no indication whatsoever whether the fare you are purchasing is an -UP fare or a "true" premium class fare, and there's no indication of what the restrictions might be if it's an -UP fare. At a minimum, there is a case for deceptive marketing practices.
This part, however, I completely agree, and didn't know this. I always use "Price and Schedule" and it lists it as "Instant Upgrade." Based on that, it would be pretty obvious that this is a "lower status" ticket and has fewer rights- just based on the naming and the (usually) substantially lower fare. If other search methods don't indicate the -UP nature of the ticket and don't disclose the limitations, then I wholeheartedly agree with the "deceptive marketing practices" part. I've just never come across it that way
Cheers.
Jul 31, 2010, 10:16 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Home: East Mids UK - Work (Base): Accra, Ghana.
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I am slightly concerned now...
I booked "Business Special" SFO-ORD-MIA-MGA-MIA-SFO with the MIS-MGA-MIA showing as booked in I class and the SFO-ORD-MIA and MIA-SFO booked in A class... Is any of that itinerary a Yup or Kup basis that would put me down to Y in case of disruption? Or is that all actual A and I ticketed basis fares?
Thanks,
I booked "Business Special" SFO-ORD-MIA-MGA-MIA-SFO with the MIS-MGA-MIA showing as booked in I class and the SFO-ORD-MIA and MIA-SFO booked in A class... Is any of that itinerary a Yup or Kup basis that would put me down to Y in case of disruption? Or is that all actual A and I ticketed basis fares?
Thanks,
Jul 31, 2010, 10:47 am
#36
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,540
I am slightly concerned now...
I booked "Business Special" SFO-ORD-MIA-MGA-MIA-SFO with the MIS-MGA-MIA showing as booked in I class and the SFO-ORD-MIA and MIA-SFO booked in A class... Is any of that itinerary a Yup or Kup basis that would put me down to Y in case of disruption? Or is that all actual A and I ticketed basis fares?
Thanks,
I booked "Business Special" SFO-ORD-MIA-MGA-MIA-SFO with the MIS-MGA-MIA showing as booked in I class and the SFO-ORD-MIA and MIA-SFO booked in A class... Is any of that itinerary a Yup or Kup basis that would put me down to Y in case of disruption? Or is that all actual A and I ticketed basis fares?
Thanks,
Jul 31, 2010, 10:52 am
#37
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hotlanta.
Programs: I've gone underground!
Posts: 4,591
IMHO, this issue is being blown way out of proportion.
Yes, there are training issues. I experienced some of the anti-UP bias over at UA years ago. Regardless, it makes sense to me that in cases of IRROPS, if there are no F seats available, there aren't any F seats available. Let's say you had a true "F" fare based ticket... does AA then bump someone out of their seat for you?
As far as refunds, I look at it like UA's international upgrade system. You were forced to buy a higher class for the right to stand by for a mileage upgrade. If the upgrade doesn't happen you don't get a refund back down to K or L just because that basis existed when you purchased M or H to get into the Business cabin. Same issue with IRROPS... no refund on your fare for getting bumped back down into Y on the next available flight.
Yes, there are training issues. I experienced some of the anti-UP bias over at UA years ago. Regardless, it makes sense to me that in cases of IRROPS, if there are no F seats available, there aren't any F seats available. Let's say you had a true "F" fare based ticket... does AA then bump someone out of their seat for you?
As far as refunds, I look at it like UA's international upgrade system. You were forced to buy a higher class for the right to stand by for a mileage upgrade. If the upgrade doesn't happen you don't get a refund back down to K or L just because that basis existed when you purchased M or H to get into the Business cabin. Same issue with IRROPS... no refund on your fare for getting bumped back down into Y on the next available flight.
Jul 31, 2010, 11:11 am
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Jul 31, 2010, 11:26 am
#39
Join Date: Nov 2009
Programs: AA EXP - 2MM +, CO, US, UA,SPG, Hertz Presidents Club
Posts: 233
As far as refunds, I look at it like UA's international upgrade system. You were forced to buy a higher class for the right to stand by for a mileage upgrade. If the upgrade doesn't happen you don't get a refund back down to K or L just because that basis existed when you purchased M or H to get into the Business cabin. Same issue with IRROPS... no refund on your fare for getting bumped back down into Y on the next available flight.
Jul 31, 2010, 11:42 am
#40
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hotlanta.
Programs: I've gone underground!
Posts: 4,591
I am slightly concerned now...
I booked "Business Special" SFO-ORD-MIA-MGA-MIA-SFO with the MIS-MGA-MIA showing as booked in I class and the SFO-ORD-MIA and MIA-SFO booked in A class... Is any of that itinerary a Yup or Kup basis that would put me down to Y in case of disruption? Or is that all actual A and I ticketed basis fares?
Thanks,
I booked "Business Special" SFO-ORD-MIA-MGA-MIA-SFO with the MIS-MGA-MIA showing as booked in I class and the SFO-ORD-MIA and MIA-SFO booked in A class... Is any of that itinerary a Yup or Kup basis that would put me down to Y in case of disruption? Or is that all actual A and I ticketed basis fares?
Thanks,
Anyway, ALL premium cabin tickets offer you 2 choices in case of irrops:
- Fly in F on the next flight with F available
- Fly in Y if F isn't available on a flight to your liking
Jul 31, 2010, 12:45 pm
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Home: East Mids UK - Work (Base): Accra, Ghana.
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You have to look at the Fare Basis codes on your tickets... not the Booking Code. -UP is the fare basis.
Anyway, ALL premium cabin tickets offer you 2 choices in case of irrops:
Anyway, ALL premium cabin tickets offer you 2 choices in case of irrops:
- Fly in F on the next flight with F available
- Fly in Y if F isn't available on a flight to your liking
Regards,
Jul 31, 2010, 2:06 pm
#42
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Caracas
Programs: Former AA PLT/GLD, A3 *G, Priority Pass
Posts: 1,144
Anyway, ALL premium cabin tickets offer you 2 choices in case of irrops:
- Fly in F on the next flight with F available
- Fly in Y if F isn't available on a flight to your liking
. I believe they did the best on ground with my irrop. Just for informative matters or whatever here is the first reply i received.
Dear Mrs. mvtm:
Although we try to find a solution to all issues sent to us, it's not always the best
way to resolve matters efficiently. Accordingly, I've sent your request to personnel
in our accounting office for handling the prorating of your tickets. Please allow
three to four weeks for their review.
Mrs. mvtm, we do appreciate your business and look forward to welcoming you aboard
soon.
Sincerely,
XXXXX
Customer Relations
American Airlines
Although we try to find a solution to all issues sent to us, it's not always the best
way to resolve matters efficiently. Accordingly, I've sent your request to personnel
in our accounting office for handling the prorating of your tickets. Please allow
three to four weeks for their review.
Mrs. mvtm, we do appreciate your business and look forward to welcoming you aboard
soon.
Sincerely,
XXXXX
Customer Relations
American Airlines
. But again folks, this is old and it's already dead. It's ok, i just wished the outcome would be better. Oh well, better luck next time.
Jul 31, 2010, 3:11 pm
#43
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hotlanta.
Programs: I've gone underground!
Posts: 4,591
ATL-SAN- "Econ super saver" - $275. "Econ Flex" $1032. "Instant upgrade" - $987. "First" $1132.
Well, if I look at tomorrow, the cheapest is $949 for the same flights. That means I'd get a $39 ($987-$949) refund each way if I was in Y the whole time. Had the flights been more sold out and the cheapest Y being $1032, then I'd get no refund ($1032-$987=<$0).
Aug 1, 2010, 11:30 pm
#44
Used to be 'Travelergcp'
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Orleans
Programs: AA Plat, Marriott Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,826
I think the deal is if you fly in Y, you are accepting a voluntary downgrade with no compensation due. At least they are correct in calling it instant upgrade rather than discount First.
Aug 2, 2010, 1:30 am
#45
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,683
I am slightly concerned now...
I booked "Business Special" SFO-ORD-MIA-MGA-MIA-SFO with the MIS-MGA-MIA showing as booked in I class and the SFO-ORD-MIA and MIA-SFO booked in A class... Is any of that itinerary a Yup or Kup basis that would put me down to Y in case of disruption? Or is that all actual A and I ticketed basis fares?
Thanks,
I booked "Business Special" SFO-ORD-MIA-MGA-MIA-SFO with the MIS-MGA-MIA showing as booked in I class and the SFO-ORD-MIA and MIA-SFO booked in A class... Is any of that itinerary a Yup or Kup basis that would put me down to Y in case of disruption? Or is that all actual A and I ticketed basis fares?
Thanks,