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ARCHIVE: Boeing 767-300 / 763 "CIP" with Lie Flat Business (2014 CIP)

Old Mar 7, 2014, 1:36 pm
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Last edit by: JDiver
The current thread for discussing the 767-323ER Thompson Vantage Business Seats is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1542143-boeing-767-300-763-thompson-vantage-business-seat-map-best-seats.html.

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"CIP" Cabin Improvement Program Full Lie Flat Thompson Vantage Seat and All-Aisle Access. 16 of 24 with WiFi, Business with tablets for IFE.

See American Airlines Business Class Seat video in first post
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Due to thread and interest growth, please see 763 / 767 CIP New (2014) Business Seat and Map (master thread). BUSINESS SEAT and BUSINESS CABIN posts have moved to that thread.

NOTE: All currently flying 763s are refurbished.

100% of the active fleet have been converted (as of 30OCT17) (* = wifi available):
  • N342AN*, N343AN*, N344AN*, N346AN*, N347AN*, N348AN*, N349AN*, N350AN*, N379AA, N381AN*, N384AA*, N385AM, N388AA, N389AA, N390AA, N391AA, N392AN, N393AN, N394AN, N395AN, N396AN, N397AN*, N398AN, and N399AN*.

The following 34 aircraft have been retired (as of 30OCT17):
  • N345AN, N351AA, N352AA, N353AA, N354AA, N355AA, N357AA, N358AA, N39356, N359AA, N360AA, N361AA, N362AA, N363AA, N39364, N39365, N366AA, N39367, N368AA, N369AA, N370AA, N371AA, N372AA, N373AA, N374AA, N7375A, N376AN, N377AN, N378AN, N382AN, N383AN, N386AA, N387AM, N380AN (with N373AA being the final NGBC aircraft retired to Roswell on 30OCT17)

Program details:
  • ~26 (46%) of AA's fleet of 57 763 / 767-323ERs have been retained and upgraded with a Cabin Improvement Program - 28 new horizontal lie-flat Thompson Vantage business seats, 14 MCE seats (row 11 gets removed as the business cabin is enlarged), and 163 coach / economy (including 14 exit row) seats. Other upgrades include international satellite Wi-Fi (refit started in 2016), 110V AC power outlets in the business cabin (MCE and coach will retain 15V DC cigarette-lighter style power), new overhead monitors and audio systems, and a refurbishment of lavatories and main cabin seats. No personal in-seat video system was installed - the premium cabin retain the Samsung Galaxy tablets (docked to seatbacks) on international flights, and the main cabin, as well as the premium cabin on domestic flights, will stay with shared overhead screens.

  • These aircraft were refurbished for one reason: the AA/BA/IB/AY transatlantic joint business agreement requires that AA have lie-flat seats for transatlantic routes.

  • Link to post with artist's rendition of new J cabin. Link to post with new seat maps as they appear in AA.com

  • Link to airchive article including pictures, and Link to mycrewlife blog post with more renderings showing the business cabin.

  • Link to FT Trip Report with images

  • Link to AA's widebody CIP announcement. For 777 upgrades, see thread 777-200ER / 772 No First; New Business Announced 2014 (767 stuff moved).

J-cabin seat map:

Code:
   A  D  G  J
 2 0_ 0_0_ _0 2
 3 _0 _0_0 0_ 3
 4 0_ 0_0_ _0 4
 5 _0 _0_0 0_ 5
 6 0_ 0_0_ _0 6
 7 _0 _0_0 0_ 7
 8 0_ 0_0_ _0 8
 A  D  G  J
 
 Legend: 0 = seat; _ = table
Link to SeatGuru 763 seat chart


Note: the seats in C behind seats with smaller consoles (inside center) have smaller foot cubbies; those with large feet or shoes will feel cramped. Those over six feet will feel cramped if they lie supine in the fully flattened seat; sleeping slanted or side sleeping with bent legs is possible.

In Business they offer a 110 VAC multi-socket in the e-pad front tray area, and another, as well as USB and audio mini jack at shoulder height over and at the rear of the console. Seat controls are touch controls, and can involuntarily be operated by resting your forearm on the console.

The tray table is released with a button; it pivots out and folds. Table height may impede those who are portly or have long legs. Overhead bins, IFE monitors, lavs etc. have not been upgraded.

JDiver's mini-report here.

Contributors: sensei, SDQBound(former B7e7US), Longboater, Econometrics[/COLOR]
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ARCHIVE: Boeing 767-300 / 763 "CIP" with Lie Flat Business (2014 CIP)

Old Jan 16, 2014, 7:54 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by TexasFlyer
This is getting complicated. I am looking at the seat map for my coach flight to Rome #236 in May and there is a new code, "Reserved for elite and full fare customers" and most, but not all of the MCEs have that gray triangle in the upper left hand corner, as do some Preferred.It's almost random. Any ideas? No description on the legend.
As SJC AA mentioned, this has been around for a while. Usually they're the MCE seats that are upfront and/or the "best" MCE seats.

It's also helpful in the sense that non-elites can't purchase these seats, so it's more likely that there'll be MCE seats available closer to the flight date.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 5:24 am
  #47  
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There is lots of ongoing discussion in this thread in the AA sub-forum.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...-seat-map.html
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 11:08 am
  #48  
dw
 
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Just want to add, I thought we heard there was a *better* and *new* seat coming to the AA 767s, not one that has already been installed by other airlines.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 2:21 pm
  #49  
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this is complete management nightmare.

there is potentially 4 different business class seat types for the new AA,

77W
77E
767-300
330s
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 5:15 pm
  #50  
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Physics will not allow the 777 seats to be installed in the narrower 763.

End of story.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 5:40 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by jameskwon
this is complete management nightmare.

there is potentially 4 different business class seat types for the new AA,

77W
77E
767-300
330s
Plus the ones on the A321T. Regardless, they're all fully flat and they all have aisle access, except for the A321T J seats. 763 has to have a different seat for 1-2-1, the 77W one just won't fit.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 6:56 pm
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by jameskwon
this is complete management nightmare.

there is potentially 4 different business class seat types for the new AA,

77W
77E
767-300
330s
I was told that 77W and 330s seats are basically the same with the difference that the 77W has more "bells and whistles" (I guess more advanced IFE/ connectivity options).

Why would the 77E be different to 77W? I have not heard any rumors.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 7:06 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by carlosdca
Why would the 77E be different to 77W? I have not heard any rumors.
If you search long enough, that was the rumor, from reputable sources.

The Cirrus seat was a rush job to accept the 77Ws that Boeing was throwing AA's way since it could not deliver the 789s in 2012 as per contract, and AA selected CX's version of it.

AA seems to believe that they can do a better job by specifying its own seats. Indeed, the team did an excellent job in 2006 by perfecting an obsolete ski-slope design, and the seats they put together are pretty decent ones within the ski-slope category; however, they threw money away by penny pinching and have to remove them already (a few years too late).

Last edited by hillrider; Jan 17, 2014 at 7:12 pm
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 7:41 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by carlosdca
Why would the 77E be different to 77W? I have not heard any rumors.
In May, 2012, AA said this about the new 772 J seats:

Up to 45 new fully lie-flat Business Class seats will provide customers among the largest living spaces of any 777 Business Class seat offered by U.S. airlines. The new seat will be an industry leader giving travelers up to two times more living space than American's current 777-200ER Business Class seat. Seats will feature a large tray table, a work surface, and every component of the seat including the seatback, head rest and leg rest can be individually adjusted using intuitively designed, simplistic seat controls.
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/features/ame...widebody-fleet

Chris Sloan, of Airways magazine, had this to say about the seats in his review of the inaugural 77W flight:

The Business Class Cabin for the 777-200s and some 767-300s, due in January 2014 will reportedly be a further upgrade, as it will be a hybrid between the Flagship and Business. This new cabin will be very key to the airline as the First Class Flagship suites will be removed from these particular aircraft.
http://airchive.com/blog/2013/01/19/...ugural-flight/

From these clues it sounds as if the 772 J seats will be superior to the 77W J seats; larger with more personal space.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 10:23 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by hillrider
Physics will not allow the 777 seats to be installed in the narrower 763.

End of story.
It can be done, with a slight modification.
given seating arrangement is already out, we do know they did not opt for same product.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-C...07bc21f52b7e3d

However, I do find forward facing is a lot more superior product over herringbone.

Going back to 77E seating option, I will be really surprised if AA is generous enough to match new SQ style Business product. That is true industry leader.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Singa...495f405a9681c7
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Old Jan 18, 2014, 3:25 am
  #56  
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Originally Posted by jameskwon
It can be done, with a slight modification.
given seating arrangement is already out, we do know they did not opt for same product.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-C...07bc21f52b7e3d
Uhh, those are NOT the same as the seats installed on the 77W. Those actually look like the previous-gen CX seats that they ripped out of most of their fleet after just a couple of years (I unfortunately flew in one a couple of weeks ago).

Originally Posted by jameskwon
However, I do find forward facing is a lot more superior product over herringbone.
Why?
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Old Jan 18, 2014, 8:57 am
  #57  
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Originally Posted by hillrider
The Cirrus seat was a rush job to accept the 77Ws that Boeing was throwing AA's way since it could not deliver the 789s in 2012 as per contract, and AA selected CX's version of it.
Wow, if AA can do that good with a rush job, then I wonder what they'll produce given the time? AA has a rich history of being the first in many things in the industry and they have the potential to do a really good job again.
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Old Jan 18, 2014, 11:12 pm
  #58  
 
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So if AA81 LHR-DFW still shows 2-2-2 in J, I can assume that plane is not scheduled for update before my June 14 flight?
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 1:15 am
  #59  
 
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Originally Posted by yztim
So if AA81 LHR-DFW still shows 2-2-2 in J, I can assume that plane is not scheduled for update before my June 14 flight?
Everybody should assume that. It is unlikely the planes will be dedicated to any specific route. Most people wont know if you get a new 763 until the seat map loads the day of the flight.
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 7:41 am
  #60  
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Originally Posted by jameskwon
I will be really surprised if AA is generous enough to match new SQ style Business product. That is true industry leader.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Singa...495f405a9681c7
I sure hope that AA does not choose an unbreathable cover like SQ appears to have done (which amazes me). 16 hours on leather would be rather uncomfortable.

The rest of the seat looks very refined and well designed; very surprised that SQ did not take breathability into consideration (leather is far cheaper to clean and maintain, but SQ is not known for skimping). Very much puzzled.

But at the end of the day this is a 777 seat, and it will not fit on a much narrower 767.
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