"Vintage" 757s

 
Old Jul 6, 2013, 7:51 am
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"Vintage" 757s

Unlike many, the 757 has never been one of my favourite or preferred airplanes. I have friends who swear by it, I tend to swear at it. Nor am I someone who thinks that newer planes are better and anything more than 5-years in the air is obsolete. After all, I am somewhat of a "vintage" FFer, having started my flying well before the advent of the FF programs. (And I actually prefer the current, soon-to-be-retired international business class seats to many of the new ones found on other airlines, including old-UA's new C seat and LH's horrendous one.)

However, as much as fan of AA as I have become, can there be any defence for still flying those couple of really old cabin 757s to Hawaii? Last night I had one of these planes (not sure how many there are) and the front cabin seats reminded me of first class on the old 707 or DC8! I've had the refurb'd 757s on the LAX-KOA run but now also these twice. I suppose AA can get away with such planes on this tourist heavy route, but it is disappointing considering the good state of the rest of the 757 fleet, which are destined for the desert in a year or two along with the domestic 767s on the Flagship runs.

While I had no issues with my seat, some friends sitting further up the cabin complained about the dirtiness of theirs, as well as showed me the collapsed underside of the seat pair in front of them. Nor was the delivery of checked bags very impressive with the priority tagged bags coming down towards the end of a 15-minute wait.

I know UA has its old style 757s on these routes too, and even to HNL where I've had flights on both airlines, and where the AA flight was on a very nice international configured 767.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 7:56 am
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AA has begun slowly retiring these birds - the first one was broken up in April or May - so they are not likely to spend a lot of money for a cabin upgrade. Some 757s have been / are being "updated" to the seats similar to those used on the older 737s, iirc. but the old brown "Eisenhower" seats with low seatbacks are still out there (yep, they were the F seats used in 707 / CV990 / 720/ 727 etc.) (But perhaps these will not much longer - the desert awaits, and "C" checks are probably when they change out seats, etc.. That's the decision point: invest in the "C" check, or get rid of it.)
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 8:10 am
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Originally Posted by Shareholder
However, as much as fan of AA as I have become, can there be any defence for still flying those couple of really old cabin 757s to Hawaii?
Sure - economics and range vs. a (still) limited number of 738s. Lots of carriers fly 757s to Hawaii.

Originally Posted by Shareholder
While I had no issues with my seat, some friends sitting further up the cabin complained about the dirtiness of theirs, as well as showed me the collapsed underside of the seat pair in front of them.
Cabin cleanliness and seat cushion condition needn't be a function of age. AA really should do better.

Originally Posted by Shareholder
Nor was the delivery of checked bags very impressive with the priority tagged bags coming down towards the end of a 15-minute wait.
Off-topic. Baggage delivery isn't a function of aircraft age. You're developing a meta-whine.

Originally Posted by Shareholder
I know UA has its old style 757s on these routes too, and even to HNL where I've had flights on both airlines, and where the AA flight was on a very nice international configured 767.
Looking at the full count of US-49 flights to Hawaii across all carriers, check the fraction flown with domestic-config narrowbodies vs. international business config widebodies. If UA/AA/DL could fly widebodies more profitability to Hawaii than to Europe or Asia, they'd do it without hesitation.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 9:22 am
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
Off-topic. Baggage delivery isn't a function of aircraft age. You're developing a meta-whine. [emphasis mine]
^ Please forgive me for stealing that meta-whine term and using it frequently from here on out. Brilliant!

And back to those vintage 757s it's really the condition of the interior not the airframe age. I'd rather AA refurbish and keep 757s than replace them with new equipment with vastly inferior performance.

If you don't have a preference for flying a 757 out of places like SNA, EGE, BOG, UIO, LPB then you're not very familiar with aircraft performance data.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 9:31 am
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757s are true hot rods of the sky, and very useful at hot and high airports. (The others were the Boeing 720s, but they are long gone.) The newer cabins on some 757s may tell us some of these workhorses will stay on - a redeye to LPB or VVI on an "Eisenhower" could be considered a forced stress position, rather than Business Class.

(And at KOA, it's local baggage handlers, not AA, that messes up priority bags order - it's part of the "take it easy" life, brah.)
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 9:53 am
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Originally Posted by JDiver
similar to those used on the older 737s, iirc.
They're actually the seats used in all the new style 737's, and all the 737's that have gone through the CIP. The 752's also get an entirely new interior (side panels, updated bathrooms, AC power outlets at every seat, etc.). The CIP ones (besides the lack of a foot rest) are really nice to fly on and I've been lucky that I'm 6/7 on them this year (including a DFW/ANC r/t). However, like the OP, I despise the older ones and it is the main reason that when I go to islands other than Oahu, that I always connect to Hawaiian airlines in HNL and take AA 73/72 (when in season) from ORD or one of the B763 flights from DFW direct.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 10:02 am
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I was just on the flying museum a week or two ago. Thankfully most of the 57's flying DFW-LAX have the newer interiors. Every now and then though we get treated to a little slice of nostalgia.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 10:11 am
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Originally Posted by Shareholder
I suppose AA can get away with such planes on this tourist heavy route, but it is disappointing considering the good state of the rest of the 757 fleet, which are destined for the desert in a year or two along with the domestic 767s on the Flagship runs.
Most AA 757s are not headed to the desert in a year or two. AA retired some of its oldest 757s in 2011-12 (built in 1989-1990) and will retire 12 more this year, ending 2013 with 90 757s.

The ETOPS 757s flown to HA are among AA's newer 757s, most having been delivered in the mid-to-late 1990s. Unless the A321neo is really able to fly nonstop from LAX to HNL (I have my doubts), those 757s could continue in service to our 50th State for quite a long time.

AA's 75Ls (with NGBC seats) are the newest 20 757s in the fleet, most having been delivered in 2001 and 2002. They easily have another 12-15 years left in them.

The pace of the 757 cabin refresh (CIP) is disappointing, but the new seats aren't any more comfortable, IMO. AA needs to do a better job cleaning the planes, but the reality is that at less than $10/hr for contract cleaners, the cabins won't be sparkling clean until airlines dedicate more money to hire cleaners who care.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 10:14 am
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Nor was the delivery of checked bags very impressive with the priority tagged bags coming down towards the end of a 15-minute wait.

Shareholder: We had same issue a year ago at KOA. I emailed CR and they gave me a biolerplate response basically saying "Pound Sand".
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 10:36 am
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On the LAX/OGG route currently AA flys two of the routes on a 763. Coming to OGG this weekend my options for a lower price was either fly through LAX and take the 510PM 757 flight or fly from DFW to HNL and take a HA commuter flight to OGG. I chose the latter.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 10:43 am
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Originally Posted by FWAAA
The pace of the 757 cabin refresh (CIP) is disappointing, but the new seats aren't any more comfortable, IMO. AA needs to do a better job cleaning the planes, but the reality is that at less than $10/hr for contract cleaners, the cabins won't be sparkling clean until airlines dedicate more money to hire cleaners who care.
I agree that the new 757 CIP seats in F (and the new 738 F seats which are the same) suck. AA would have been better served to stick with the previous generation of F seats from the 738 - they were wider and more comfortable than the new ones.

Or for the best alternative, buy the used cloth seats that UA used to have on the 757. The last generation of cloth seat used by UA on domestic narrowbodies was the best domestic non-sleeper seat in the sky. Idiots at UA replaced the high quality fabric seats with cheap leather though.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 10:45 am
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It certainly would have been cheaper - use the seats form the 737 CIP and place them into the 757 cabins - still an improvement (more of an improvement than the new sliders, IMO).

Originally Posted by Herb687
I agree that the new 757 CIP seats in F (and the new 738 F seats which are the same) suck. AA would have been better served to stick with the previous generation of F seats from the 738 - they were wider and more comfortable than the new ones.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 10:47 am
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Originally Posted by JDiver
It certainly would have been cheaper - use the seats form the 737 CIP and place them into the 757 cabins - still an improvement (more of an improvement than the new sliders, IMO).
Why does AA never consult us for practical cost-saving customer-friendly ideas like this?

No wonder they are bankrupt!
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 11:43 am
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IMO, the 757s aren't so bad, except for the luggage space.

Baggage handling at LAX is lacking. Minimum wait time is 15 minutes, but more common is 20-25 mins from passenger unloading. It makes little sense, as the gates are all between 500 and 2000 feet from the luggage sorting area. This is an area AA can improve on at LAX/T4. It's disappointing.
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Old Jul 6, 2013, 11:50 am
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I'll take the comfortable old 757 loungers over those terrible new F seats any day of the week. Those seats absolutely suck. Fortunately my last two 757 flights where the old-style seats. Love them.
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