Feb 14, 2013, 9:50 am
Last edit by: JDiver
MODERATOR GUIDEPOST
The AA - US merger was approved by AMR creditors and the boards of directors of both airlines on 13 Feb 2013, and announced the 14th.
There is no further speculation about whether the merger will occur; all that is pending is approval from the bankruptcy court and the regulatory authorities.
American Airlines and US Airways approve merger: just the facts, please outlines the facts we know;
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement Discussion (consolidated) is the thread for discussion of the announced merger.
The AA - US merger was approved by AMR creditors and the boards of directors of both airlines on 13 Feb 2013, and announced the 14th.
There is no further speculation about whether the merger will occur; all that is pending is approval from the bankruptcy court and the regulatory authorities.
American Airlines and US Airways approve merger: just the facts, please outlines the facts we know;
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement Discussion (consolidated) is the thread for discussion of the announced merger.
ARCHIVE: US LCC & AMR / AA Takeover / merger Rumors and Discussion (consolidated)
Jan 25, 2013, 6:43 pm
#2956
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
I hope you understand the difference between leaking confidential information on a possible merger of 2 public companies, including a very high profile brand like AA where its chap 11 restructuring has garnered so much media attention, and the immoral behavior of HP's CEO? Board Members leaking that the actions of the CEO having an affair is not a criminal act.
http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_16...nclick_check=1
Jan 25, 2013, 7:13 pm
#2957
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LA
Programs: AAdvantage, CK, 4 MM; Marriott Lifetime PLT
Posts: 308
First of all, it is public information that AA and US are engaged in merger discussions.
But to your question about leaks, Airtran Board Member in the WN/Airtran merger?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanma...rlines-merger/
But to your question about leaks, Airtran Board Member in the WN/Airtran merger?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanma...rlines-merger/
By the way, noticed that the SEC investigated and prosecuted in the case you referenced. The Board Member was very lucky no charges were brought against him.
She also accused him initially of disclosing confidential merger information…
http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_16...nclick_check=1
http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_16...nclick_check=1
Jan 25, 2013, 7:27 pm
#2958
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NYC LAX RDU
Programs: US-Plt;Concierge key; American AAirpass; Delta Silver;Starwood - Platinum; Amex Cent
Posts: 710
Please - I'm assuming your an attorney and you more than anyone should know from experience that few if any NDAs where a Large number of people are involved ever succeed in keeping people's lips shut.
Yes, it is public info -- companies explore merger possibilities all the time. You will recall this is not the first merger possibility US has been involved in the past 5 years. The "news" from the article is that a deal will take place in 2 weeks. That is illegal. If true, it provides confidential inside information that can impact the stock of both companies.
By the way, noticed that the SEC investigated and prosecuted in the case you referenced. The Board Member was very lucky no charges were brought against him.
Which, according to the article, she later admitted was not true. I am sure that if there was any truth to her accusation, it would have been revealed by now. Very easy to prove as the other Board Members from either company would have the duty to report their knowledge/findings to the authorities. I will sum up her false accusation as a former scorned lover.
By the way, noticed that the SEC investigated and prosecuted in the case you referenced. The Board Member was very lucky no charges were brought against him.
Which, according to the article, she later admitted was not true. I am sure that if there was any truth to her accusation, it would have been revealed by now. Very easy to prove as the other Board Members from either company would have the duty to report their knowledge/findings to the authorities. I will sum up her false accusation as a former scorned lover.
Jan 25, 2013, 8:49 pm
#2959
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
Programs: AA 2MM LT PLT; AS MVP Gold75k; HHonors Diamond; IHG PLT
Posts: 3,502
The 800 lb gorilla is LCC's labor issues - Pilots, FAs. AMR mgmt, BOD can and should take the position that nothing can happen until and unless Parker has new contracts in place. The MOU between AA and LCC pilots is interesting, but was never accepted by either mgmt, isn't worth the paper it is written on without it.
Jan 25, 2013, 9:18 pm
#2960
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LA
Programs: AAdvantage, CK, 4 MM; Marriott Lifetime PLT
Posts: 308
First of all, it is public information that AA and US are engaged in merger discussions.
But to your question about leaks, Airtran Board Member in the WN/Airtran merger?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanma...rlines-merger/
But to your question about leaks, Airtran Board Member in the WN/Airtran merger?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanma...rlines-merger/
Jan 25, 2013, 9:23 pm
#2961
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP,2MM, DL Gold,Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,876
Jan 25, 2013, 9:24 pm
#2962
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
Programs: AA 2MM LT PLT; AS MVP Gold75k; HHonors Diamond; IHG PLT
Posts: 3,502
Jan 25, 2013, 9:26 pm
#2963
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP,2MM, DL Gold,Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,876
Jan 25, 2013, 10:08 pm
#2964
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TYO / WAS / NYC
Programs: American Express got a hit man lookin' for me
Posts: 4,595
Good luck with that! What are you going to do when anonymously sourced confidential information suddenly appears in the WSJ? You could go through company IT and try to find a record of who leaked the info, but then what? Get an injunction against something they already did? Sue them for damages -- in which case they simply file for bankruptcy and hide out in a big house in Texas or Florida?
Jan 25, 2013, 10:24 pm
#2965
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NYC LAX RDU
Programs: US-Plt;Concierge key; American AAirpass; Delta Silver;Starwood - Platinum; Amex Cent
Posts: 710
Good luck with that! What are you going to do when anonymously sourced confidential information suddenly appears in the WSJ? You could go through company IT and try to find a record of who leaked the info, but then what? Get an injunction against something they already did? Sue them for damages -- in which case they simply file for bankruptcy and hide out in a big house in Texas or Florida?
Exactly. You are routed in reality. Which is rare on this forum.
Jan 26, 2013, 12:30 am
#2966
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
I hope you understand the difference between leaking confidential information on a possible merger of 2 public companies, including a very high profile brand like AA where its chap 11 restructuring has garnered so much media attention, and the immoral behavior of HP's CEO? Board Members leaking that the actions of the CEO having an affair is not a criminal act.
If you have a case to be made, please provide an example where leaks of a possible merger between two public companies have been publicly known before an official announcement? Leaking information of this kind is a violation of securities laws and very easy to find out who is the source.
If you have a case to be made, please provide an example where leaks of a possible merger between two public companies have been publicly known before an official announcement? Leaking information of this kind is a violation of securities laws and very easy to find out who is the source.
Yes, it is public info -- companies explore merger possibilities all the time. You will recall this is not the first merger possibility US has been involved in the past 5 years. The "news" from the article is that a deal will take place in 2 weeks. That is illegal. If true, it provides confidential inside information that can impact the stock of both companies.
By the way, noticed that the SEC investigated and prosecuted in the case you referenced. The Board Member was very lucky no charges were brought against him.
Which, according to the article, she later admitted was not true. I am sure that if there was any truth to her accusation, it would have been revealed by now. Very easy to prove as the other Board Members from either company would have the duty to report their knowledge/findings to the authorities. I will sum up her false accusation as a former scorned lover.
By the way, noticed that the SEC investigated and prosecuted in the case you referenced. The Board Member was very lucky no charges were brought against him.
Which, according to the article, she later admitted was not true. I am sure that if there was any truth to her accusation, it would have been revealed by now. Very easy to prove as the other Board Members from either company would have the duty to report their knowledge/findings to the authorities. I will sum up her false accusation as a former scorned lover.
My original point was to those that was saying "those in the know" couldn't possibly be an anonymous source on what was going on - and the point was it is possible the sources on the merger had first hand knowledge.
Very surprising a lawyer of any real life corporate experience wouldn't understand that like speeding, leaks happen. @:-)
I was never commenting on whether leaking confidential information to the press is either illegal or immoral. You missed the point.
Grahampros did understand the point.
Jan 26, 2013, 2:13 am
#2967
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TYO / WAS / NYC
Programs: American Express got a hit man lookin' for me
Posts: 4,595
LAXJFKesq: you don't practice securities law, do you? Merger leaks happen all the freakin' time. For the most part, companies only have disclosure obligations once something is officially agreed, and there is always a significant gap of time between the unofficial agreement and the point at which everything is papered and signed.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=merger+leak
And about disclosure obligations:
http://www.reverse-merger.com/merger...ure-matters-2/
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=merger+leak
And about disclosure obligations:
http://www.reverse-merger.com/merger...ure-matters-2/
Jan 26, 2013, 12:53 pm
#2968
Used to be MJ-bos
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Diego, California USA
Programs: AA ExecPlat, COdbaUA 1P & 2MM, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, IHG Gold, Avis 1st
Posts: 228
As a one of the refugees from the UA-CO merger - it's refreshing to see how OPPOSED to the merger most folks here seem to be.
I remember when UA-CO started their dance - there were a few naysayers, but many UA loyalists seemed positive and excited - the merger would fill-in many gaps, especially on the east coast, and would make the combined airline broad & strong.
Ok, pick yourselves up off the floor and stop laughing.
Seriously, there is no good "merger of equals" ... it's always a turf war, people are tribal by nature, and it will be a MESS for everyone. Remember, LCC is still "east" - pmUS and "west" is still pmHP, they still aren't all on the same team yet.
I'd much prefer seeing an outright takover of LCC by AMR post-BK. Or as part of a BK- when LCC has to file again. Better to buy ala carte what you want vs. end up with a mystery bag full of crap that you have to dispose of just to get the few prizes you want.
I remember when UA-CO started their dance - there were a few naysayers, but many UA loyalists seemed positive and excited - the merger would fill-in many gaps, especially on the east coast, and would make the combined airline broad & strong.
Ok, pick yourselves up off the floor and stop laughing.
Seriously, there is no good "merger of equals" ... it's always a turf war, people are tribal by nature, and it will be a MESS for everyone. Remember, LCC is still "east" - pmUS and "west" is still pmHP, they still aren't all on the same team yet.
I'd much prefer seeing an outright takover of LCC by AMR post-BK. Or as part of a BK- when LCC has to file again. Better to buy ala carte what you want vs. end up with a mystery bag full of crap that you have to dispose of just to get the few prizes you want.
Jan 26, 2013, 1:28 pm
#2969
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NYC LAX RDU
Programs: US-Plt;Concierge key; American AAirpass; Delta Silver;Starwood - Platinum; Amex Cent
Posts: 710
Again, the majority of posters in this forum are seriously detached from reality. Us made 800m profit in 2012. US is not going bankrupt and unlike aa - their CEO has built a sustainable model.
UA - CO will be a monster competitor once they get the kinks sorted out. It was a poorly executed integration. Douggie has done a great job at forcing aa to merger and obviously learned his lesson from the delta attempt. I doubt his leadership team will make as many mistakes as us-co.
UA - CO will be a monster competitor once they get the kinks sorted out. It was a poorly executed integration. Douggie has done a great job at forcing aa to merger and obviously learned his lesson from the delta attempt. I doubt his leadership team will make as many mistakes as us-co.
As a one of the refugees from the UA-CO merger - it's refreshing to see how OPPOSED to the merger most folks here seem to be.
I remember when UA-CO started their dance - there were a few naysayers, but many UA loyalists seemed positive and excited - the merger would fill-in many gaps, especially on the east coast, and would make the combined airline broad & strong.
Ok, pick yourselves up off the floor and stop laughing.
Seriously, there is no good "merger of equals" ... it's always a turf war, people are tribal by nature, and it will be a MESS for everyone. Remember, LCC is still "east" - pmUS and "west" is still pmHP, they still aren't all on the same team yet.
I'd much prefer seeing an outright takover of LCC by AMR post-BK. Or as part of a BK- when LCC has to file again. Better to buy ala carte what you want vs. end up with a mystery bag full of crap that you have to dispose of just to get the few prizes you want.
I remember when UA-CO started their dance - there were a few naysayers, but many UA loyalists seemed positive and excited - the merger would fill-in many gaps, especially on the east coast, and would make the combined airline broad & strong.
Ok, pick yourselves up off the floor and stop laughing.
Seriously, there is no good "merger of equals" ... it's always a turf war, people are tribal by nature, and it will be a MESS for everyone. Remember, LCC is still "east" - pmUS and "west" is still pmHP, they still aren't all on the same team yet.
I'd much prefer seeing an outright takover of LCC by AMR post-BK. Or as part of a BK- when LCC has to file again. Better to buy ala carte what you want vs. end up with a mystery bag full of crap that you have to dispose of just to get the few prizes you want.
Jan 26, 2013, 1:50 pm
#2970
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-air...130000776.html
On a GAAP basis, US earned $637 million. Neither number is close to $800 million.
US and its FAs have reached a third TA in the past 12 months and this one, just like the previous one, is estimated to cost US about $45 million per year in increased FA expense. Despite that increase, it won't cost as much as the AA FA contract.
The US pilots, via their union, the USAPA, released details of their increased compensation if they are paid on par with AA pilots. Details here:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/f...nuary-2013.pdf
It claims increased pilot expense totalling $1.6 billion over six years, or $267 million per year. So the pilots and FAs at US get increases of approx $312 million per year, eating into that 2012 profit of $537 million. Then add in the 20,000+ other US employees in addition to the pilots and FAs, and it's apparent that the "sustainable model" you mentioned works at the current industry-lagging US payscales. Whether it works at the AA payrates is anyone's guess.