Go Back   FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > American Airlines | AAdvantage (Consolidated) > American Airlines | AAdvantage (Pre-Merger)
Sign in using an external account

    Hide Wikipost
Old Feb 14, 13, 8:51 am   -   Wikipost
FlyerTalk Forums Thread Wiki: US LCC & AMR / AA Takeover / merger Rumors and Discussion (consolidated - archived)
Please read: this is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread.
 
Last edit by: JDiver

MODERATOR GUIDEPOST

The AA - US merger was approved by AMR creditors and the boards of directors of both airlines on 13 Feb 2013, and announced the 14th.

There is no further speculation about whether the merger will occur; all that is pending is approval from the bankruptcy court and the regulatory authorities.

American Airlines and US Airways approve merger: just the facts, please outlines the facts we know;

AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement Discussion (consolidated) is the thread for discussion of the announced merger.


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jan 25, 13, 6:43 pm   #2956
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAXJFKesq View Post

I hope you understand the difference between leaking confidential information on a possible merger of 2 public companies, including a very high profile brand like AA where its chap 11 restructuring has garnered so much media attention, and the immoral behavior of HP's CEO? Board Members leaking that the actions of the CEO having an affair is not a criminal act.
She also accused him initially of disclosing confidential merger informationů

http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_16...nclick_check=1
elitetraveler is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 7:13 pm   #2957
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LA
Programs: AAdvantage, Ex. Platnium, 4 MM; Marriott Platinum
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
First of all, it is public information that AA and US are engaged in merger discussions.

But to your question about leaks, Airtran Board Member in the WN/Airtran merger?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanma...rlines-merger/
Yes, it is public info -- companies explore merger possibilities all the time. You will recall this is not the first merger possibility US has been involved in the past 5 years. The "news" from the article is that a deal will take place in 2 weeks. That is illegal. If true, it provides confidential inside information that can impact the stock of both companies.

By the way, noticed that the SEC investigated and prosecuted in the case you referenced. The Board Member was very lucky no charges were brought against him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
She also accused him initially of disclosing confidential merger informationů

http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_16...nclick_check=1
Which, according to the article, she later admitted was not true. I am sure that if there was any truth to her accusation, it would have been revealed by now. Very easy to prove as the other Board Members from either company would have the duty to report their knowledge/findings to the authorities. I will sum up her false accusation as a former scorned lover.
LAXJFKesq is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 7:27 pm   #2958
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: LAX RDU
Programs: US-Plt; Advantage XPlt; Concierge key; American AAirpass; Starwood - Platinum; Amex Cent
Posts: 259
Please - I'm assuming your an attorney and you more than anyone should know from experience that few if any NDAs where a Large number of people are involved ever succeed in keeping people's lips shut.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LAXJFKesq View Post
Yes, it is public info -- companies explore merger possibilities all the time. You will recall this is not the first merger possibility US has been involved in the past 5 years. The "news" from the article is that a deal will take place in 2 weeks. That is illegal. If true, it provides confidential inside information that can impact the stock of both companies.

By the way, noticed that the SEC investigated and prosecuted in the case you referenced. The Board Member was very lucky no charges were brought against him.



Which, according to the article, she later admitted was not true. I am sure that if there was any truth to her accusation, it would have been revealed by now. Very easy to prove as the other Board Members from either company would have the duty to report their knowledge/findings to the authorities. I will sum up her false accusation as a former scorned lover.
morrisunc is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 8:49 pm   #2959
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Jolla, Ca
Programs: AA MillionMiler (BIS) Aadvantage Exp Plat, HHonors Diamond, Southwest Rapid Rewards A-List
Posts: 1,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by taliesin View Post
If they haven't resolved valuation and management structure, what exactly have they resolved? It seems to me those would need to be the very first matters to decide. If you haven't settled on a price, you're not close to closing the sale.
The 800 lb gorilla is LCC's labor issues - Pilots, FAs. AMR mgmt, BOD can and should take the position that nothing can happen until and unless Parker has new contracts in place. The MOU between AA and LCC pilots is interesting, but was never accepted by either mgmt, isn't worth the paper it is written on without it.
diver858 is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 9:18 pm   #2960
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LA
Programs: AAdvantage, Ex. Platnium, 4 MM; Marriott Platinum
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
First of all, it is public information that AA and US are engaged in merger discussions.

But to your question about leaks, Airtran Board Member in the WN/Airtran merger?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanma...rlines-merger/
Quote:
Originally Posted by morrisunc View Post
Please - I'm assuming your an attorney and you more than anyone should know from experience that few if any NDAs where a Large number of people are involved ever succeed in keeping people's lips shut.
what? I strongly disagree. NDAs are enforceable. Not sure how you are drawing your conclusions?
LAXJFKesq is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 9:23 pm   #2961
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, 1MM, Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAXJFKesq View Post
what? I strongly disagree. NDAs are enforceable. Not sure how you are drawing your conclusions?
You are both correct here. The NDA's are legally enforceable. Are there ways you leak stuff yes happens all the time.
grahampros is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 9:24 pm   #2962
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Jolla, Ca
Programs: AA MillionMiler (BIS) Aadvantage Exp Plat, HHonors Diamond, Southwest Rapid Rewards A-List
Posts: 1,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahampros View Post
You are both correct here. The NDA's are legally enforceable. Are there ways you leak stuff yes happens all the time.
While highly unethical, it is only illegal if you get caught.
diver858 is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 9:26 pm   #2963
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, 1MM, Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by diver858 View Post
While highly unethical, it is only illegal if you get caught.
Oh i wasn't saying it was ethical but happens all the time is my only point.
grahampros is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 10:08 pm   #2964
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TYO
Programs: NH, JL, US, DL, Hilton, New Otani
Posts: 3,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAXJFKesq View Post
NDAs are enforceable.
Good luck with that! What are you going to do when anonymously sourced confidential information suddenly appears in the WSJ? You could go through company IT and try to find a record of who leaked the info, but then what? Get an injunction against something they already did? Sue them for damages -- in which case they simply file for bankruptcy and hide out in a big house in Texas or Florida?
joejones is offline  
Old Jan 25, 13, 10:24 pm   #2965
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: LAX RDU
Programs: US-Plt; Advantage XPlt; Concierge key; American AAirpass; Starwood - Platinum; Amex Cent
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejones View Post
Good luck with that! What are you going to do when anonymously sourced confidential information suddenly appears in the WSJ? You could go through company IT and try to find a record of who leaked the info, but then what? Get an injunction against something they already did? Sue them for damages -- in which case they simply file for bankruptcy and hide out in a big house in Texas or Florida?

Exactly. You are routed in reality. Which is rare on this forum.
morrisunc is offline  
Old Jan 26, 13, 12:30 am   #2966
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAXJFKesq View Post
I hope you understand the difference between leaking confidential information on a possible merger of 2 public companies, including a very high profile brand like AA where its chap 11 restructuring has garnered so much media attention, and the immoral behavior of HP's CEO? Board Members leaking that the actions of the CEO having an affair is not a criminal act.

If you have a case to be made, please provide an example where leaks of a possible merger between two public companies have been publicly known before an official announcement? Leaking information of this kind is a violation of securities laws and very easy to find out who is the source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAXJFKesq View Post
Yes, it is public info -- companies explore merger possibilities all the time. You will recall this is not the first merger possibility US has been involved in the past 5 years. The "news" from the article is that a deal will take place in 2 weeks. That is illegal. If true, it provides confidential inside information that can impact the stock of both companies.

By the way, noticed that the SEC investigated and prosecuted in the case you referenced. The Board Member was very lucky no charges were brought against him.



Which, according to the article, she later admitted was not true. I am sure that if there was any truth to her accusation, it would have been revealed by now. Very easy to prove as the other Board Members from either company would have the duty to report their knowledge/findings to the authorities. I will sum up her false accusation as a former scorned lover.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahampros View Post
You are both correct here. The NDA's are legally enforceable. Are there ways you leak stuff yes happens all the time.
Dear LaxJfkEsq,

My original point was to those that was saying "those in the know" couldn't possibly be an anonymous source on what was going on - and the point was it is possible the sources on the merger had first hand knowledge.

Very surprising a lawyer of any real life corporate experience wouldn't understand that like speeding, leaks happen.

I was never commenting on whether leaking confidential information to the press is either illegal or immoral. You missed the point.

Grahampros did understand the point.
elitetraveler is offline  
Old Jan 26, 13, 2:13 am   #2967
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TYO
Programs: NH, JL, US, DL, Hilton, New Otani
Posts: 3,004
LAXJFKesq: you don't practice securities law, do you? Merger leaks happen all the freakin' time. For the most part, companies only have disclosure obligations once something is officially agreed, and there is always a significant gap of time between the unofficial agreement and the point at which everything is papered and signed.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=merger+leak

And about disclosure obligations:

http://www.reverse-merger.com/merger...ure-matters-2/
joejones is offline  
Old Jan 26, 13, 12:53 pm   #2968
Used to be MJ-bos
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Diego, California USA
Programs: AA ExecPlat, COdbaUA 1P & 2MM, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, IHG Gold, Avis 1st
Posts: 218
As a one of the refugees from the UA-CO merger - it's refreshing to see how OPPOSED to the merger most folks here seem to be.

I remember when UA-CO started their dance - there were a few naysayers, but many UA loyalists seemed positive and excited - the merger would fill-in many gaps, especially on the east coast, and would make the combined airline broad & strong.

Ok, pick yourselves up off the floor and stop laughing.

Seriously, there is no good "merger of equals" ... it's always a turf war, people are tribal by nature, and it will be a MESS for everyone. Remember, LCC is still "east" - pmUS and "west" is still pmHP, they still aren't all on the same team yet.

I'd much prefer seeing an outright takover of LCC by AMR post-BK. Or as part of a BK- when LCC has to file again. Better to buy ala carte what you want vs. end up with a mystery bag full of crap that you have to dispose of just to get the few prizes you want.
MoJ0 is offline  
Old Jan 26, 13, 1:28 pm   #2969
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: LAX RDU
Programs: US-Plt; Advantage XPlt; Concierge key; American AAirpass; Starwood - Platinum; Amex Cent
Posts: 259
Again, the majority of posters in this forum are seriously detached from reality. Us made 800m profit in 2012. US is not going bankrupt and unlike aa - their CEO has built a sustainable model.

UA - CO will be a monster competitor once they get the kinks sorted out. It was a poorly executed integration. Douggie has done a great job at forcing aa to merger and obviously learned his lesson from the delta attempt. I doubt his leadership team will make as many mistakes as us-co.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MoJ0 View Post
As a one of the refugees from the UA-CO merger - it's refreshing to see how OPPOSED to the merger most folks here seem to be.

I remember when UA-CO started their dance - there were a few naysayers, but many UA loyalists seemed positive and excited - the merger would fill-in many gaps, especially on the east coast, and would make the combined airline broad & strong.

Ok, pick yourselves up off the floor and stop laughing.

Seriously, there is no good "merger of equals" ... it's always a turf war, people are tribal by nature, and it will be a MESS for everyone. Remember, LCC is still "east" - pmUS and "west" is still pmHP, they still aren't all on the same team yet.

I'd much prefer seeing an outright takover of LCC by AMR post-BK. Or as part of a BK- when LCC has to file again. Better to buy ala carte what you want vs. end up with a mystery bag full of crap that you have to dispose of just to get the few prizes you want.
morrisunc is offline  
Old Jan 26, 13, 1:50 pm   #2970
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 28,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by morrisunc View Post
Again, the majority of posters in this forum are seriously detached from reality. Us made 800m profit in 2012. US is not going bankrupt and unlike aa - their CEO has built a sustainable model.
Not quite that much. Excluding special items, US earned $537 million in 2012:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-air...130000776.html

On a GAAP basis, US earned $637 million. Neither number is close to $800 million.

US and its FAs have reached a third TA in the past 12 months and this one, just like the previous one, is estimated to cost US about $45 million per year in increased FA expense. Despite that increase, it won't cost as much as the AA FA contract.

The US pilots, via their union, the USAPA, released details of their increased compensation if they are paid on par with AA pilots. Details here:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/f...nuary-2013.pdf

It claims increased pilot expense totalling $1.6 billion over six years, or $267 million per year. So the pilots and FAs at US get increases of approx $312 million per year, eating into that 2012 profit of $537 million. Then add in the 20,000+ other US employees in addition to the pilots and FAs, and it's apparent that the "sustainable model" you mentioned works at the current industry-lagging US payscales. Whether it works at the AA payrates is anyone's guess.
FWAAA is offline  
 
 
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 6:11 pm.




SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.