Jan 31, 2015, 6:12 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
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ARCHIVE: Involuntary Denied Boarding (IDB) Order and Compensation (consolidated)
Apr 3, 2010, 11:30 am
#31
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I think the intend of the rule is that airline can't hide from you that they have to pay you more cause you are going to get IDB and can't dupe you into taking VDB instead.
In your case, it is the other way around.
I am wondering how many people got IDB was told they may get IDB when the GA was offering VDB.
I guess if follow the rule, GA has to find the pax that may get IDB, told him/her that if no one take VDB then he/her will get IDB for this much prior to ask for volunteer.
In your case, it is the other way around.
I am wondering how many people got IDB was told they may get IDB when the GA was offering VDB.
I guess if follow the rule, GA has to find the pax that may get IDB, told him/her that if no one take VDB then he/her will get IDB for this much prior to ask for volunteer.
Apr 3, 2010, 11:33 am
#32
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Of course. That was what was so asinine about the whole conversation. I told the manager - Perhaps that's what someone told you, but rest assured, if your company, for whatever reason believes it's in its best interest to pay a pax MORE than the law requires, nobody's going to fine you. Really.
Apr 4, 2010, 4:19 pm
#33
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What were you hoping AA would do at this point? I can't tell. If you believe an amount higher than delivered was promised you have a reasonable issue that can be directly articulated and requested of AA. Critiquing the GA's will just confuse the request.
Apr 4, 2010, 4:32 pm
#34
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You are replying to a post that is three years old. Inventories have changed.
Apr 4, 2010, 5:14 pm
#35
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I have already written a letter and sent it to AA and asked them for comp at least equivalent to what I would have received for volunteering to bump. (I put this up on FT mainly to raise the issue of the IDB rules so that others might benefit from my experience of ignorance.)
I'm not sure which element of my message you interpreted as un-useful critique, but IMO, the key to my request for additional comp is that the GAs didn't follow specific, Federal DOT rules. It's not just a whiny "you should pay me because it was a bad experience" request. The fact that they didn't talk to me, etc., is key to the point. If we had been conversing, and I had some inkling that I was about to get IDB'd, then I might have just offered to take it at the time.
Am I misunderstanding YOUR point?
Last edited by Jakebeth; Apr 4, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Apr 4, 2010, 8:59 pm
#36
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This is probably a good example of the type of situation worth bringing to the Department of Transportation's attention, too. Hopefully you at least got your $102 in cash...
Apr 4, 2010, 9:14 pm
#37
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Why will that confuse the request? Part of the reason for the request for additional compensation is that the GA didn't comply with the law.
This is probably a good example of the type of situation worth bringing to the Department of Transportation's attention, too. Hopefully you at least got your $102 in cash...
This is probably a good example of the type of situation worth bringing to the Department of Transportation's attention, too. Hopefully you at least got your $102 in cash...
In fact, one of the "extras" that I didn't mention was that I have a 3 1/2 year old who sleeps with "pull-ups". His were by then all sitting at Disney World while we cooled our heels in the L concourse (out of which I almost never fly; I felt like I was on foreign soil). The woman who brought the IDB checks was kind enough to run back to their office and somehow came up with a few pull-ups, which was a lifesaver. The on-duty manager/supervisor also tossed out the Best Western overnight reservation that the GA had provided and got us into the Hilton ORD, for which I was grateful, as well.
By the way - while researching the rules after-the-fact, I was kind of surprised that the GAs and the supervisor, in particular, hadn't been more carefully trained on them. I say that b/c it seems that Delta (?) got fined some few hundred thousand dollars last year (IIRC) for a series IDB related violations that spanned six months or some such. I would have thought that would at least trigger some memos.
Apr 5, 2010, 8:45 pm
#38
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Perhaps you did; perhaps you didn't.
My point being you have a clean compensation issue that is in the top 2% of seeming validity and way better than the average FT compensation thread, so why complicate it? I would have echoed the frequent advice found on FT to stick to the most basic facts (promised a seat for VDB, then IDB'd, then not paid the final offer), ask for the bucks now, and close. If I could document any unrecovered expense for arriving late in Mickeyville I might even toss that in too, and hope for a few AAdvantage pacification points.
Sounds like you have already gone the detailed complaint route. Sorry to have provoked you to caps trying to help. Let us know what they say.
My point being you have a clean compensation issue that is in the top 2% of seeming validity and way better than the average FT compensation thread, so why complicate it? I would have echoed the frequent advice found on FT to stick to the most basic facts (promised a seat for VDB, then IDB'd, then not paid the final offer), ask for the bucks now, and close. If I could document any unrecovered expense for arriving late in Mickeyville I might even toss that in too, and hope for a few AAdvantage pacification points.
Sounds like you have already gone the detailed complaint route. Sorry to have provoked you to caps trying to help. Let us know what they say.
Apr 20, 2010, 1:08 am
#39
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The point still applies. The seat map, even in First doesn't always reflect the number of seats available for sale. The thread was already resurrected, so it's not like my post made much of a difference.
Apr 20, 2010, 1:17 am
#40
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Of course. That was what was so asinine about the whole conversation. I told the manager - Perhaps that's what someone told you, but rest assured, if your company, for whatever reason believes it's in its best interest to pay a pax MORE than the law requires, nobody's going to fine you. Really.
I gave up a seat on the last LAX-SJC flight last Monday night
They didn't push very much for volunteers and at least one guy got IDB'd
He ended up on the SFO flight and he shared the shuttle with me to SJC
They paid him $225, but would have given him a $350 voucher. They offered $200 for vdb to take the SFO flight 35 minutes later (later delayed by about 30 minutes) and shuttle to SJC. I got an upgrade on the fairly new 738.
May 31, 2010, 3:05 pm
#41
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Govt to hit airlines harder for bumping passengers
Govt to hit airlines harder for bumping passengers
With airlines bumping more passengers, DOT to propose greater reimbursement for travelers
DALLAS (AP) -- Giving up your airline seat may become a little less painful.
Federal officials are expected to announce this week a plan to raise the maximum amount that airlines must pay passengers who get bumped off an oversold flight, currently at $400 or $800 depending on how long a trip is delayed.
Bumpings rose in three of the past four years and jumped 10 percent to 762,422 in 2009, the highest total since 2002. They soared 17 percent in this year's first quarter.
The potential inconvenience is greater now too. Airlines have cut back on flights and planes are more crowded, so bumped passengers could wait hours or even days to find alternate arrangements.
Passenger-rights groups have pushed the Transportation Department to raise the payout limits to $800 and $1,200 per traveler if the airline bumps you involuntarily. The agency has signaled that it plans some type of inflation adjustment in the limits, which were last raised in 2008. Officials declined to provide details.
With airlines bumping more passengers, DOT to propose greater reimbursement for travelers
DALLAS (AP) -- Giving up your airline seat may become a little less painful.
Federal officials are expected to announce this week a plan to raise the maximum amount that airlines must pay passengers who get bumped off an oversold flight, currently at $400 or $800 depending on how long a trip is delayed.
Bumpings rose in three of the past four years and jumped 10 percent to 762,422 in 2009, the highest total since 2002. They soared 17 percent in this year's first quarter.
The potential inconvenience is greater now too. Airlines have cut back on flights and planes are more crowded, so bumped passengers could wait hours or even days to find alternate arrangements.
Passenger-rights groups have pushed the Transportation Department to raise the payout limits to $800 and $1,200 per traveler if the airline bumps you involuntarily. The agency has signaled that it plans some type of inflation adjustment in the limits, which were last raised in 2008. Officials declined to provide details.
Aug 2, 2010, 3:49 pm
#42
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Could this involuntary bump story be true?
My sister just called and said her husband was involuntarily bumped off the 12:30pm flight from MIA to Gutamala. The next flight is 7:30pm tonight. She claims he was given a $249 check from AA (which he immediately cashed at the airport) and a $10 voucher for food. Would AA do this? I always thought travel vouchers were given for bumped flights, not checks.
Aug 2, 2010, 3:52 pm
#43
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If he was IDB (involuntary) then AA has to give cash. Although $249 sounds kind of low....I am not an expert on the IDB rules but I do know they have to give cash (or a check in this case) for an IDB.
Vouchers are given when you voluntarily take the bump.
Vouchers are given when you voluntarily take the bump.
Aug 2, 2010, 3:56 pm
#44
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$249 for an involuntary denied boarding also sounds low to me. They would give vouchers for a voluntary bump, but never heard of them being issued for an odd amount like that (it would usually be $250 or $300 maybe more on that flight.)
Aug 2, 2010, 3:58 pm
#45
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$249 may be his original fare amount...? But in theory he should receive 200% of the fare since the delay seems to be more than 4 hours.
From the DOT (http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking):
(bolding mine)
From the DOT (http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking):
Involuntary bumping
DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:
* If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
* If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $400 maximum.
* If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (200% of your one-way fare, $800 maximum).
*You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:
* If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
* If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $400 maximum.
* If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (200% of your one-way fare, $800 maximum).
*You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
Last edited by JY1024; Aug 2, 2010 at 4:02 pm Reason: Added bolding