Apr 9, 2014, 11:05 am
Last edit by: JDiver
Angry about AAdvantage devaluation / vent / what can I do? (April 2014, consolidated)
Thread referred to: Devaluation, new tiers, oneworld Explorer award gone, etc. 8 April 2014
Without any prior notification, American Airlines announced on 8 April 2014 some significant AAdvantage program rescissions and devaluations, effective immediately:
- oneworld Explorer awards can no longer be claimed; (pre-existing awards will be honored)
- Stopovers at North American gateways for international partner award tickets were eliminated
- AAnytime awards now reflect variable, demand-based pricing
- US Dividend Miles North Asia premium awards have repriced
Important Information
AAnytime Awards: Effective April 8, 2014, for tickets issued for travel starting June 1, 2014, we have updated award levels. We will continue to honor any award tickets issued on / before April 7, 2014. For award bookings after April 8 for travel between April 8 and June 1, 2014, these award mileage levels will apply.
oneworld Explorer Awards are no longer available for award booking. We will continue to honor any award tickets issued on / before April 7, 2014.
AAnytime Awards: Effective April 8, 2014, for tickets issued for travel starting June 1, 2014, we have updated award levels. We will continue to honor any award tickets issued on / before April 7, 2014. For award bookings after April 8 for travel between April 8 and June 1, 2014, these award mileage levels will apply.
oneworld Explorer Awards are no longer available for award booking. We will continue to honor any award tickets issued on / before April 7, 2014.
Possibilities for action / communication:
Here's what you can do, as stated by the U.S. Supreme Court in its recent case (Source: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...2-462_p8k0.pdf page 13)
It is your duty to enter a complaint with the DOT at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/CP_AirlineService.htm. You can even quote this passage from the U.S. Supreme Court.
Congress has given the Department of Transportation (DOT) the general authority to prohibit and punish unfair and deceptive practices in air transportation and in the sale of air transportation, 49 U.S.C. §41712(a) , and Congress has specifically authorized the DOT to investigate complaints relating to frequent flyer programs. See FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, §408(6), 126 Stat. 87. Pursuant to these provisions, the DOT regularly entertains and acts on such complaints.
Originally Posted by ooshawn
Just wrote an unhappy letter to AA/USAir execs (all email addresses I could find), if you want to feel free to use/build off of the following:
douglas.parker<at>usairways.com,
sean.bentel<at>aa.com,
tom.horton<at>aa.com ?
Customer.Relations<at>aa.com,
ken.fischer<at>usairways.com,
robert.isom<at>usairways.com,
suzanne.rubin<at>aa.com
douglas.parker<at>usairways.com,
sean.bentel<at>aa.com,
tom.horton<at>aa.com ?
Customer.Relations<at>aa.com,
ken.fischer<at>usairways.com,
robert.isom<at>usairways.com,
suzanne.rubin<at>aa.com
Originally Posted by MyTravels
USPS:
<Executive Name>
P.O. Box 619616
DFW Airport, TX 75261-9616
<Executive Name>
P.O. Box 619616
DFW Airport, TX 75261-9616
Angry about AAdvantage devaluation / vent / what can I do? (April 2014, consolidated)
Apr 9, 2014, 11:18 pm
#151
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA Advanatge
Posts: 474
No one who knows anything about executives or who has ever been involved with management team building thought for a second that Parker was smart or better suited to grow AA than Horton.
What he did over bankruptcy, to grow the company's revenues was really a job well done. The unions hated him, and the bankers just needed this thing to go long enough to sell their shares to be made whole. They could care less about the long term growth and felt that unions happy would allow things to stay on course long enough to get paid.
Not the first, nor the last time a bad decision is made for today's gains, at the expense of the long term health of a company. Its called being a publicly traded company.
Cheers,
AA777
What he did over bankruptcy, to grow the company's revenues was really a job well done. The unions hated him, and the bankers just needed this thing to go long enough to sell their shares to be made whole. They could care less about the long term growth and felt that unions happy would allow things to stay on course long enough to get paid.
Not the first, nor the last time a bad decision is made for today's gains, at the expense of the long term health of a company. Its called being a publicly traded company.
Cheers,
AA777
It's easy to see correlation, but establishing causation is not so easy.
Yes, DL is firing on all cylinders and making huge profits despite its less-than-friendly frequent flyer program changes.
UA, on the other hand, is a different story. Since March 3, 3012, the Shares integration date, UA has underperformed relative to both AA and DL.
When AA filed for Ch 11 in November, 2011, the Wall St stockpushers unanimously predicted that AA would shrink by at least 10% (some fools predicted 15% or more) and thus AA would see its revenue decline by at least $2.5 billion in 2012 compared with 2011.
What actually happened was vastly different from the predictions of JamieBaker/HunterKeay/et al: AA's 2012 revenue was up by almost a billion dollars over 2011, and AA shrank very little. Over at UA, 2012 revenue was $42 million higher compared with 2011. It wasn't just AA; US and DL also saw their 2012 revenue grow substantially compared to UA.
Against that backdrop, I would have predicted that Parker would stay the course and continue to dance with the one that brung him for at least a couple more years, you know - not piss off the elites, both native and recent arrivals from UA. Continue to look attractive to customers fleeing UA (and maybe even DL given its very recent changes to Skypiles).
Instead, he's angered the AA elites long before he's even integrated the computer systems, perhaps jeopardizing the huge revenue growth that AA and US saw in 2012 and 2013 (especially compared with UA).
Maybe his aggressive changes will bring in even higher profits in the short-term. We'll see.
Yes, DL is firing on all cylinders and making huge profits despite its less-than-friendly frequent flyer program changes.
UA, on the other hand, is a different story. Since March 3, 3012, the Shares integration date, UA has underperformed relative to both AA and DL.
When AA filed for Ch 11 in November, 2011, the Wall St stockpushers unanimously predicted that AA would shrink by at least 10% (some fools predicted 15% or more) and thus AA would see its revenue decline by at least $2.5 billion in 2012 compared with 2011.
What actually happened was vastly different from the predictions of JamieBaker/HunterKeay/et al: AA's 2012 revenue was up by almost a billion dollars over 2011, and AA shrank very little. Over at UA, 2012 revenue was $42 million higher compared with 2011. It wasn't just AA; US and DL also saw their 2012 revenue grow substantially compared to UA.
Against that backdrop, I would have predicted that Parker would stay the course and continue to dance with the one that brung him for at least a couple more years, you know - not piss off the elites, both native and recent arrivals from UA. Continue to look attractive to customers fleeing UA (and maybe even DL given its very recent changes to Skypiles).
Instead, he's angered the AA elites long before he's even integrated the computer systems, perhaps jeopardizing the huge revenue growth that AA and US saw in 2012 and 2013 (especially compared with UA).
Maybe his aggressive changes will bring in even higher profits in the short-term. We'll see.
Apr 9, 2014, 11:22 pm
#152
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA Advanatge
Posts: 474
Uh oh, there you go again, letting facts get in the way of people's opinions
Cheers,
AA777
Cheers,
AA777
That's exactly why Congress has given the Department of Transportation (DOT) the general authority to prohibit and punish unfair and deceptive practices.
Laws take precedent over contracts, and many are written with this in mind. Lemon laws are one such example: the sales contract may state that the "sale is final", "sold as is", "no warranty", "no rebates", etc., but this is all made irrelevant (void) by the lemon law.
If the DOT rules that the changes are deceptive, anything in AA's unilateral contract of adhesion that says otherwise is completely irrelevant. And the U.S. Supreme Court reminded us of this.
Laws take precedent over contracts, and many are written with this in mind. Lemon laws are one such example: the sales contract may state that the "sale is final", "sold as is", "no warranty", "no rebates", etc., but this is all made irrelevant (void) by the lemon law.
If the DOT rules that the changes are deceptive, anything in AA's unilateral contract of adhesion that says otherwise is completely irrelevant. And the U.S. Supreme Court reminded us of this.
Apr 9, 2014, 11:22 pm
#153
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Programs: AA ExPlat, AS MVP Gold
Posts: 909
Let's see, the list of airlines that I can think of that have devalued miles and/or benefits in the past few years, many with little or no notice:
AA AC AF AS AV B6 BA DL KL LH VX WN UA US
In a competitive environment where all the other airlines are devaluing their miles and, over time, explicitly linking benefits to revenue as best they can, not doing so is leaving money on the table, sad to say.
AA AC AF AS AV B6 BA DL KL LH VX WN UA US
In a competitive environment where all the other airlines are devaluing their miles and, over time, explicitly linking benefits to revenue as best they can, not doing so is leaving money on the table, sad to say.
The remaining apologists for the airlines industry among the frequent flyer community, and their opposition to long overdue re-regulation of this wreck of a business model, are facilitating the bad acts of Messrs. Parker, Smisek et al. and the so-called "race to the bottom." Sad to say.
--mcz
"We don't care because we don't have to."
--The Phone Company
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/76/76aphonecompany.phtml
Apr 9, 2014, 11:51 pm
#156
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: BOS
Programs: Recovering AA flyer, LT PLT 2.6 MM
Posts: 1,543
Just cancelled my Citi Executive AAdvantage card 2 weeks into having it. Perhaps the 100k miles will be good on AA in the future but, given Tuesday's events, there are surer bets elsewhere. The 1M+ miles I already have in the bank are risk enough.
And I'm one of the a-holes who clipped Kellogg's box tops for miles...
Yup... and it may be a time not to accumulate any more while it continues to settle rapidly in the near term. I doubt this is the last move.
And I'm one of the a-holes who clipped Kellogg's box tops for miles...
Seems non-controversial that AA miles will be worth less (not worthless) in the future, which is what you said. Heck, any loyalty currency is ultimately going to be worth less over time, which is why it's not best to hoard. Since a devaluation of sAAver is bound to happen before long, AA miles will certainly have lower value over time.
Last edited by sinanju; Apr 10, 2014 at 12:16 am
Apr 10, 2014, 12:02 am
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
"First they came for the economy passengers but I did not speak up because I was not an economy passenger.
Then they came for the F passengers but I did not speak up because I was not an F passenger.
Then they came for the Emerald status members but I did not speak up because I was not an Emerald status member.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak up for me."
Pardon the paraphrasing as it's obviously not on the same level but if you don't act now then your precious saver awards will be the next to be axed.
Then they came for the F passengers but I did not speak up because I was not an F passenger.
Then they came for the Emerald status members but I did not speak up because I was not an Emerald status member.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak up for me."
Pardon the paraphrasing as it's obviously not on the same level but if you don't act now then your precious saver awards will be the next to be axed.
For all of those out there who held on to the belief that a stand-alone AA was going to leave its FF program unchanged, you were living in a fantasy world. When the FF programs were at their most generous, airlines were bleeding billions of dollars. But hey! If I still get into F on my Y ticket, it's all good! Well, the industry figured out how to be profitable. Moreover, it was less than a decade ago that oil trading at $60 a barrel was considered the threashold point from when an airline would move from the black into the red. Today, airlines are doing quite well with oil hovering around $100 per barrel. And this is an inveitable consequence of that. And I'll use the demise of MRTC as a prime example of this. Passengers loved it; but not enough to pay more for it. So it went bye-bye. Now, if AA wanted to continue being "different" than the rest, and it wasn't costing them money to do so, they would have kept it.
Last edited by Fanjet; Apr 10, 2014 at 12:44 am
Apr 10, 2014, 12:24 am
#158
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,750
Apr 10, 2014, 2:42 am
#159
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London, England
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, National Exec, AA EXP Emeritus
Posts: 9,765
Some personal exchanges have been redacted or removed. Let's keep things on track here folks.
As a reminder (from the newly revised FlyerTalk Rules):
~Moderator
As a reminder (from the newly revised FlyerTalk Rules):
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
<snip>
If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle.
<snip>
If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle.
Apr 10, 2014, 3:13 am
#160
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
To be clear, my issue is not that AA have chosen to devalue their AADVANTAGE program. Loyalty programs are proving a liability now the economy is improving and they have printed so many miles for CC and other third parties. As a result AA have been removing Saaver inventory for AA international flights for the last 2 years. Airlines can make a business decision to remove consumer value if they think it will improve their business.
My issue is the way it has been implemented. If a frank letter along with website notice 30 days ahead explaining steps were needed to ensure profitability of the new AA and it's survival, I would have been disappointed but understood.
To send out a distorted email claiming they had already improved things, publishing the new increased charges on the website after implementation and deliberately hiding the removal of international gateway stopovers is at best unprofessional. For a loyalty program to be implemented in such a disloyal fashion is shocking.
When the US Airways take over and the arrival of Parker was announced I hoped the voices of doom were mistaken. I am now looking for a status match back at UA. Since the CO merger they have added back routes they previously cancelled and despite weakening the value of their miles they still have a program run with some integrity.
My issue is the way it has been implemented. If a frank letter along with website notice 30 days ahead explaining steps were needed to ensure profitability of the new AA and it's survival, I would have been disappointed but understood.
To send out a distorted email claiming they had already improved things, publishing the new increased charges on the website after implementation and deliberately hiding the removal of international gateway stopovers is at best unprofessional. For a loyalty program to be implemented in such a disloyal fashion is shocking.
When the US Airways take over and the arrival of Parker was announced I hoped the voices of doom were mistaken. I am now looking for a status match back at UA. Since the CO merger they have added back routes they previously cancelled and despite weakening the value of their miles they still have a program run with some integrity.
Apr 10, 2014, 5:05 am
#161
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ORD, SJD, VNO, sandy places
Programs: AA 1.2MM BIS 'LT' Gld, BA Bronze, AA Plat, now considering SWA.....
Posts: 451
Ahhhh...the poor huddled AA FF's have finally had their fill of broken promises, contracts and trust with this BK morphed entity...start filing complaints Ad Nausem and irritate the hell out of these so called 'pillars of corporate society', AKA worlds largest 'airline'...
As we all know, the Gov is a shell game providing lip service and little else for the traveling public.
Sadly, the olde AA is but a shell of its former self, honorable, proud and kept its promises...
It's now UNWORTHY of the proud Name of American....should be renamed Air Zimbabwe !!
As we all know, the Gov is a shell game providing lip service and little else for the traveling public.
Sadly, the olde AA is but a shell of its former self, honorable, proud and kept its promises...
It's now UNWORTHY of the proud Name of American....should be renamed Air Zimbabwe !!
Apr 10, 2014, 5:27 am
#162
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ORD, SJD, VNO, sandy places
Programs: AA 1.2MM BIS 'LT' Gld, BA Bronze, AA Plat, now considering SWA.....
Posts: 451
Apr 10, 2014, 6:42 am
#163
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,270
Which, a few weeks ago, announced the end of pre-departure champagne, amenity kits, and wine tastings for sleeper car passengers
However, I am genuinely looking forward to my WN flight (bought instead of AA, for the first time in years). They're minimalist, but good at what they do.
However, I am genuinely looking forward to my WN flight (bought instead of AA, for the first time in years). They're minimalist, but good at what they do.
Apr 10, 2014, 7:48 am
#164
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
Well AA say it is for consistency. So I make the presumption One World is asking members to adopt the lowest common standard, I.e. BA. I hope this does
Not mean we will see extortionate charges for "free"
Tickets as BA charges.
Not mean we will see extortionate charges for "free"
Tickets as BA charges.
Apr 10, 2014, 8:02 am
#165
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,771
Background:
I was sitting with my son - who needed an award ticket. I agreed to front the CC and pay the BA "fees". Got to the end and the website said - The names on the ticket and credit card must MATCH. AA needs a work around for that - but that's off topic for here.
I called reservations and the PLT agent was delightful. And agreed that they have also been adversely affected by the changes. And she wondered why the Explorer awards disappeared as she understood the interest for those who took the time to book them. As son is non-elite, the computer charged us US$25. Which the agent did agree should have been $35
My remaining 2014 flights may be credited as leading to:
QF Emerald - CX ruby - anything left over to AA?
or
AA Emerald? (with no soft landing)
AT least I have till mid May to consider the final answer.
Unhappily wandering (at the moment)
Fred
I was sitting with my son - who needed an award ticket. I agreed to front the CC and pay the BA "fees". Got to the end and the website said - The names on the ticket and credit card must MATCH. AA needs a work around for that - but that's off topic for here.
I called reservations and the PLT agent was delightful. And agreed that they have also been adversely affected by the changes. And she wondered why the Explorer awards disappeared as she understood the interest for those who took the time to book them. As son is non-elite, the computer charged us US$25. Which the agent did agree should have been $35
My remaining 2014 flights may be credited as leading to:
QF Emerald - CX ruby - anything left over to AA?
or
AA Emerald? (with no soft landing)
AT least I have till mid May to consider the final answer.
Unhappily wandering (at the moment)
Fred