brp

No, there is no entitlement since there is no law. Whether they do it or not is one thing, but there is no entitlement.

AA have been quite good about this, for the most part, with revenue tickets- maybe since a revenue seat is a revenue seat. From my reading here, in general, it seems it's been tougher to get the same accommodation on award tickets.

I do think that they should do it, but the do not have to. As I suggested above, I think the OP should call back until someone either finds appropriate award revenue on the desired flight, or just does the right thing and moves them.

The Agency section is not relevant to the Conditions of Carriage that govern the relationship between passenger and airline. It is hardly the quagmire that hillrider paints , but there are no assurances.

Cheers.

vrbaba

I understand that there is no rule governing the application of 240/80 that AA has to abide by, however, when AA has published it online and it is part of their policy (with agencies, per say), why is it unreasonable to expect the rule's applications when the conditions permit?

I even understand that CoC does not explicitly state the policy, but that should not limit AA's liability and responsibility towards a published rule. Even if it is targeted towards agencies, does that mean one is more protected when booking through a travel agent vs AA directly? (If anything, it should be the other way around, but thats not the point).

The OP's case is different as in he just had a schedule change of 30-60 minutes. Equipment is never guaranteed. I would not be outraged if they refuse OP's request, but surprised if they did, as it is just a small favor to provide an excellent Customer Service, where the OP's intent is duly noted and he is not trying to scam the system to change dates, or request refund, etc. What I am concerned about is the overwhelming agreement that AA does not need to abide by Rule 240/80. If one is traveling during a peak season to a foreign country and experiences IIROPs due to mechanical on the way back, will s/he get stuck there until they find the next available free seat which could be days instead of re-accommodating on another airline - which, to me, is the whole point of even having that policy - getting to the destination in a reasonable time using external means, when necessary.

brp

First, I completely agree that they should do it, and should be bound by this. It's "weasely" to have no legal bindings. So, I'm just commenting from what I believe they currently have to do.

I think even the part in the Agency section is just a suggestion, and not even binding there...so not really binding to anyone.

IME and, admittedly, this is as EXP, they've always done the "right thing" when I've asked. In some cases they didn't know what the "right thing" was, so it was good that I was armed with information. I just think that they have nothing requiring them to do most of these things. In this case, going in with an air of entitlement may not be the best approach. Asking, rather than demanding (as one might do if there was entitlement).

Cheers.

FWAAA

Rules 240 and 80 are still around - they just don't say what they used to say prior to 1979.

Here's the agency reference: http://www.aa.com/content/agency/Boo...e_240_80.jhtml

Nothing in there giving customers any rights to demand anything other than a refund if AA's accommodations are unsatisfactory. Nothing permitting customers to demand OA flights.

As has been pointed out numerous times, AA will often do the right thing, like reaccommodate passengers on OA when things go wrong, but AA is under no obligation to do so. Hasn't been for 30 years.

vrbaba

I would go as far as saying 'demanding or entitlement' is always the wrong approach in consumer business. In the end, AA is 'entitled' not to do business with you by refunding your fare, which is usually not the best case scenario. Suggesting the alternatives and even referring the 240/80 rule when things are not going right should be the right approach - all done in a calm negotiation. If an item is on sale and out of stock, not every store gives out a raincheck at that price.

I always carry a printout from the AA's website of 240/80 just in case, but would rather deal with the EXP agents on the phone than at the airport as airport agents are likely to be bombarded with other distressed (and possibly demanding) passengers to carry a calm conversation.

Blumie

First, I'll admit that I did not read this entire thread because I find the whole rule whatever debate -- which we have over and over -- intollerable and unnecessary.

In my experience, anytime there's been a schedule change, all I've had to do is call AA, tell them that they've changed my schedule to something that doesn't work for me, and ask to change to different flights that do work. On occasion, an agent has responded that the inventory is not available. In almost every case where that has happened, I have very politely reminded them that inventory availability shouldn't matter when they're accommodating a passenger who's schedule has been changed involuntarily by the airline (I sometimes use the phrase "involuntary reroute," which I have learned has some magic meaning to them), and they almost always have agreed to make the change. In those very rare cases where they would not make the change, I have politely hung up and called back to speak with a different agent. I have never failed to resolve a situation like this satisfactorily. I have never had to cite real or pretend rules. I have never had to adopt a DYKWIA attitude.

brp

Same here. I just wonder if it might be somewhat harder on a SAAver award because they may look for the specific inventory. I've never tried it in that case. All of my successful dealings have been on revenue tickets.

Cheers.

vrbaba

And more so the fact that the OP is technically on the same flight which just moved 30 mins. IME, 30 min schedule change does not yield to a 'book me on any flight I would prefer' change. Its hardly considered a schedule change.

I will know when I try to cancel a trip today that I cannot take, which has gone through a 30 min. schedule change. The total is the same as the change fee per person, so I do not expect anything and have assumed that loss already. Now, the best thing would be that AA gives me the mileage credit for it. Doesn't hurt to ask

phillykp

My experience has been similar, while not using the specific term, but mentioning to the agent that the schedule change is the airlines' responsibility. OTOH, I have not really attempted to get accomodated to specific equipment, but just been focussed on arr/dep times using different routing.

Maybe this explains Blumie's experience after using the involuntary reroute term...

(from the 240/80 link posted a few postings ago...)

Protection For Schedule Change
Passengers are to be protected by one of the following polices:

1. On AA flights in the same inventory/date as ticketed, if available. If same inventory is not available, rebook in the lowest available inventory in the same cabin as ticketed. If a flight is not available on the same date, or is not acceptable to the customer, they may be rebooked on the previous or next day. Customers may be rebooked over a different routing (same origination and destination) as long as it is a valid routing for the fare being used.

The PNR must be documented with the following OSI:
OSI AA INVOL REROUTE/AA FLIGHT NUMBER/DATE/CXLD OR SKED CHG

vrbaba

Well, I did ask. Called the EXP Desk and mentioned thfrat I canceled due to a schedule change (a mere 30 mins late departure on the outbound). She immediately mentioned that we can change it but since its 150.55, we only get 55 towards the next ticket as its not a major schedule change. Then offered (without me saying a word) to issue paper vouchers in the TOTAL amount. I asked about mileage credit instead but got shot down. Happily accepted the refund.

This alone makes me think that EXP is worth every penny (although, might not be limited to EXP agents, but I like to think so).

asf-07

I should note that the phrase "involuntary reroute" was quite successful, and AA adjusted my schedule to put me on the flight that the 777 was moved to. It took a second call to an agent, but they took care of it. ^

phillykp

Good to know. Another factoid to be filed away, thanks to FT...

Deltahater

Awesome.. that is good news. Glad it worked out for you.

Deltahater

Seems like we always have the same discussion around this. There is no legal requirement for AA to do what agency rule 80/240 states. yet, they seem to do it every time. Results are what matter, not the legal basis in this case.

woodsman56

American has changed schedules to AXA flights. I have had an award ticket booked for 9 months, but their latest schedule change now requires an overnight layover on the return...meaining extra hotel, parking, baby sitter expenses. Will American pay for the hotel?