Feb 14, 2013, 9:50 am
Last edit by: JDiver
MODERATOR GUIDEPOST
The AA - US merger was approved by AMR creditors and the boards of directors of both airlines on 13 Feb 2013, and announced the 14th.
There is no further speculation about whether the merger will occur; all that is pending is approval from the bankruptcy court and the regulatory authorities.
American Airlines and US Airways approve merger: just the facts, please outlines the facts we know;
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement Discussion (consolidated) is the thread for discussion of the announced merger.
The AA - US merger was approved by AMR creditors and the boards of directors of both airlines on 13 Feb 2013, and announced the 14th.
There is no further speculation about whether the merger will occur; all that is pending is approval from the bankruptcy court and the regulatory authorities.
American Airlines and US Airways approve merger: just the facts, please outlines the facts we know;
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement Discussion (consolidated) is the thread for discussion of the announced merger.
ARCHIVE: US LCC & AMR / AA Takeover / merger Rumors and Discussion (consolidated)
Jul 21, 2012, 1:56 pm
#1456
Join Date: Nov 2003
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It's a combination of both. ATL does get a few more pop-up storms...closer to Gulf moisture. Much more significant issue is the volume differences. ATL has about 3x the aircraft maneuvers than CLT. During PM rush you can feel it when weather hits.
Jul 21, 2012, 2:08 pm
#1457
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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http://www.aci.aero/cda/aci_common/d...-10814_666_2__
And first quarter 2012 stats (I think 2011 are still pay-only for a while):
http://www.aci.aero/cda/aci_common/d...12-231_666_2__
Jul 21, 2012, 2:09 pm
#1458
Join Date: Nov 2003
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AviationDaily Reported on July 19, 2012, that Parker's merger plan for US Airways and American Airlines calls for ceding the Asian routes to Delta and UAL.
He envisions a network that would feed into ORD for the European routes and MIA for the Latin America routes. Passengers traveling to Asia would be accommodated by American's OneWorld partners.
Additionally, international routes from PHL and CLT would be maintained.
He envisions a network that would feed into ORD for the European routes and MIA for the Latin America routes. Passengers traveling to Asia would be accommodated by American's OneWorld partners.
Additionally, international routes from PHL and CLT would be maintained.
#1: JL only flies into three AA/US hubs: DFW, ORD and JFK. Four if you count LAX but that is hardly an AA hub. This is in no way competitive with UA or, especially, DL.
#2: CX only flies to ORD and JFK. Again, LAX, if you consider that a hub.
#3: Most elites who like to use SWU in premium cabins will steer clear of JL/CX unless their AA SWUs are recognized.
#4: East coast pax will not double back to ORD for European routes. Would be more beneficial to grow JFK and PHL as European gateways. Plus, using PHL / JFK gives deeper penetration into Europe with 757s.
#5: AA needs to grown their own route network to Europe or rely on IB for connections. LHR is a poor connecting hub and taxes are overly burdensome for premium passengers.
#6: The fastest growing aviation market is Asia. US leadership's inability to see this clearly speaks to their misunderstanding of the marketplace.
This comment is proof-positive that a US-run merged airline would slowly wither on the vine. Again, not opposed to the merger...if it's run by AA leadership.
Jul 21, 2012, 2:16 pm
#1459
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BNA and TPA
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As a former Tarheel (I left the state before most people here were even born, I'm sure.... well almost), and someone who hasn't been through CLT since the PI days, I have a hard time getting my mind around the fact that, by some measures, CLT is the world's 6th busiest airport.
Jul 21, 2012, 2:36 pm
#1460
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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As a former Tarheel (I left the state before most people here were even born, I'm sure.... well almost), and someone who hasn't been through CLT since the PI days, I have a hard time getting my mind around the fact that, by some measures, CLT is the world's 6th busiest airport.
Eventually, the airport could have separate terminals connected by a tram, similar to Atlanta’s Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport.
“You either grow, or risk withering away,” said Jerry Orr, the airport’s aviation director since 1989. He said he believes Charlotte’s airport could one day be bigger than Atlanta’s.
“You either grow, or risk withering away,” said Jerry Orr, the airport’s aviation director since 1989. He said he believes Charlotte’s airport could one day be bigger than Atlanta’s.
US currently flies almost 600 of CLT's 670 daily flights, but Jerry Orr should take note of what happened at CVG, which once featured over 600 daily flights but now has about 120.
Jul 21, 2012, 3:53 pm
#1461
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Jul 21, 2012, 4:08 pm
#1462
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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And besides, with JAL as an immunized joint venture partner, which just reported a huge profit, I can't see why AA would want to replicate its Asian network.
AA fought tooth and nail to keep JAL in the Oneworld fold a couple years ago precisely because it could not reasonably build a Japanese hub network on the scale of the UA or DL connections at NRT.
Whether or not AA merges with US, I can see AA expanding its flights to NRT and China/Asia once it emerges from Ch 11. From LAX, new flights to PEK and ICN might make sense. From JFK, flights to PEK and PVG. And MAH4546 has mentioned SEA as a potential Asian gateway. Perhaps DFW to ICN. DFW currently has two flights a day to NRT, and perhaps other hubs might see additional capacity to Tokyo as well.
Jul 21, 2012, 4:34 pm
#1463
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,607
The discussion here seems to be assuming that a merger would be the only way to arrive at three major carriers (as obviously the industry is headed towards).
But that's not necessarily the case at all. it's entirely possible for one airline to just shrink away as another attacks its routes and takes them one by one until there's nothing left. They don't actually have to buy the business at all. They could just outcompete and take the market share directly.
That seems quite plausible -- either US attacks now with its lower cost basis and tries to make existing American cash cow routes unprofitable or American after it emerges from BK with a new more fuel efficient fleet does the same to US.
I don't really see what buying US would buy American. Neither of the East coast hubs have any value to American with its much bigger ORD,JFK,MIA hubs. PHX perhaps in the west but it hardly seems worth buying all the baggage it would come with.
But that's not necessarily the case at all. it's entirely possible for one airline to just shrink away as another attacks its routes and takes them one by one until there's nothing left. They don't actually have to buy the business at all. They could just outcompete and take the market share directly.
That seems quite plausible -- either US attacks now with its lower cost basis and tries to make existing American cash cow routes unprofitable or American after it emerges from BK with a new more fuel efficient fleet does the same to US.
I don't really see what buying US would buy American. Neither of the East coast hubs have any value to American with its much bigger ORD,JFK,MIA hubs. PHX perhaps in the west but it hardly seems worth buying all the baggage it would come with.
Jul 21, 2012, 5:01 pm
#1464
Formerly known as I_Hate_US_Airways
Join Date: Oct 2008
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No, You Won't!!!
Since the merger with CO, YOU don't want ANY part of that mess!!!
Jul 21, 2012, 10:18 pm
#1466
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LA
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If it happened it would likely be a "buy and break" deal with either WN or DL leading it, keeping strategic chunks (for DL - JFK, LHR slots, MIA and the Latin America network and perhaps LAX gates), for WN ORD and DFW facilities that would enable it to dramatically grow domestically and other pieces dealt off to appease opponents (i.e. - UA could get some LHR slots as an example, US could be offered table scraps). I believe AA's cash position enhances its value as an acquisition target, no?
There would be no anti-competitive problems - in fact, it would make LHR more competitive, DL share at JFK would still be lower than UA at EWR.
Boeing and Airbus will be delighted as AA's order book would serve on the Airbus side as DL's narrow body replacements and on the Boeing side future WN fleet needs.
AA has plenty of assets competitors would like to get their hands on - and the timing has never been better.
The entire industry has been a story of mergers and asset sales, and there has never been a deal too big for an airline CEO. It may be a long shot, but it can't be ruled out.
There would be no anti-competitive problems - in fact, it would make LHR more competitive, DL share at JFK would still be lower than UA at EWR.
Boeing and Airbus will be delighted as AA's order book would serve on the Airbus side as DL's narrow body replacements and on the Boeing side future WN fleet needs.
AA has plenty of assets competitors would like to get their hands on - and the timing has never been better.
The entire industry has been a story of mergers and asset sales, and there has never been a deal too big for an airline CEO. It may be a long shot, but it can't be ruled out.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...841489320.html
Mr. Horton on Friday said AMR is well aware of the benefits of industry consolidation and started a wave of mergers in 2001 with its purchase of Trans World Airlines. In the middle of the past decade, "we talked to nearly everyone, two (airlines) intensively," he said. One was United Airlines, he said. But American's unions weren't in favor of a combination and AMR at that time was the largest airline in the world, so there were antitrust complications.
Jul 22, 2012, 4:47 am
#1467
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If AA merges with US and pulls back its metal from Asia, it won't be long before JL returns to DFW, CX goes there too, and at least one them adds CLT or PHL.
Maybe AA+US will never happen, but this is becoming a lengthy thread and I haven't read a deal killer yet.
Maybe AA+US will never happen, but this is becoming a lengthy thread and I haven't read a deal killer yet.
Jul 22, 2012, 6:47 am
#1468
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
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I see "US Airways" mentioned quite copiously in this thread. 
Jul 22, 2012, 7:10 am
#1469
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
Talking about Horton's initial comments that AMR should be open to all options:
[QUOTE=LAXJFKesq;18510698]
Actually what i said is AA missed the boat on consolidation - which they did - the fact that AA talked to others - they didn't get the deal.
In terms of correctness, what's happened now is AMR is actively looking at merging within 11, something I suspected AMR management would be pressured to do - it is a 180 degrees from Horton's original position and the drum you kept beating.
The message should be AA management is open to combinations that strengthen its position. AA is a premier brand in the aviation world and while we believe we can go it alone, we also understand that there could be opportunities to grow via merger or acquisition. Under my leadership I will always look at all options that secure AA's future for investors, employees and customers.
Glad to see AA wants to stand alone, but Horton remarks a bit odd, even knowing the way media can shape the story without the fuller context.
(extract from Charlotte Observer quoting a Dallas newspaper)
"But Horton, in comments made to the Dallas Morning News editorial board on Thursday, seemed to dismiss any suggestion of a merger.
"This is not US Airways' first attempt at this. This is a small company very strategically limited, I would argue - not any international flying, hubs of less strategic importance," Horton said.
His remarks came a day after American issued a broad outline of its plan to cut costs and exit bankruptcy court as a standalone carrier. The Fort Worth-based carrier will seek to cut 13,000 jobs, about one out of every six workers, and to terminate its employee pension plan. It also plans to overhaul its fleet with more efficient planes, restructure leases and grow revenue by an average of $1 billion a year, partially by increasing departures from key cities.
On Thursday, Horton pointed to US Airways' checkered past in the merger arena.
"This will be their fourth try at this: twice for United, once for Delta while they were restructuring, now American. I would argue that this will be every bit as successful as their prior tries," Horton told the Dallas Morning News. "I'm not sure what's in the water out there in Phoenix. Maybe it's the cactus. I don't know what it is."
(extract from Charlotte Observer quoting a Dallas newspaper)
"But Horton, in comments made to the Dallas Morning News editorial board on Thursday, seemed to dismiss any suggestion of a merger.
"This is not US Airways' first attempt at this. This is a small company very strategically limited, I would argue - not any international flying, hubs of less strategic importance," Horton said.
His remarks came a day after American issued a broad outline of its plan to cut costs and exit bankruptcy court as a standalone carrier. The Fort Worth-based carrier will seek to cut 13,000 jobs, about one out of every six workers, and to terminate its employee pension plan. It also plans to overhaul its fleet with more efficient planes, restructure leases and grow revenue by an average of $1 billion a year, partially by increasing departures from key cities.
On Thursday, Horton pointed to US Airways' checkered past in the merger arena.
"This will be their fourth try at this: twice for United, once for Delta while they were restructuring, now American. I would argue that this will be every bit as successful as their prior tries," Horton told the Dallas Morning News. "I'm not sure what's in the water out there in Phoenix. Maybe it's the cactus. I don't know what it is."
Stop believing the media hype. You are basing your opinion off of the most recent news stories. The process for AA just began. AA's lawyers just began their arguments for the stand alone last week. The 1113 process is not quick and is very complicated. For example, UA bankruptcy took 3 years to complete. furthermore, only US and AA's unions, for obvious reasons, are questoning AA's standalone plan. Others on the CC seem just fine with the plan.
I don't feel like searching through this entire thread but as you can see from Horton's comments yesterday to WSJ, reaffirms what I said to you previously -- you incorrectly say AA missed its opportunity for industry consolidation, Horton, very surprisingly imo, said AA looked at United in the mid-part of the past decade. He also noted that AA began the round of consolidation with its acquisition of TWA and the lack of willingness by AA's unions who now blame management for missing the consolidations of the past few years. Finally, any merger involving AA would have been complicated given that AA was the world's largest airline at the time. Many of the same arguments I made to you previously in this thread.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...841489320.html
Mr. Horton on Friday said AMR is well aware of the benefits of industry consolidation and started a wave of mergers in 2001 with its purchase of Trans World Airlines. In the middle of the past decade, "we talked to nearly everyone, two (airlines) intensively," he said. One was United Airlines, he said. But American's unions weren't in favor of a combination and AMR at that time was the largest airline in the world, so there were antitrust complications.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...841489320.html
Mr. Horton on Friday said AMR is well aware of the benefits of industry consolidation and started a wave of mergers in 2001 with its purchase of Trans World Airlines. In the middle of the past decade, "we talked to nearly everyone, two (airlines) intensively," he said. One was United Airlines, he said. But American's unions weren't in favor of a combination and AMR at that time was the largest airline in the world, so there were antitrust complications.
In terms of correctness, what's happened now is AMR is actively looking at merging within 11, something I suspected AMR management would be pressured to do - it is a 180 degrees from Horton's original position and the drum you kept beating.
Jul 22, 2012, 7:32 am
#1470
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Parker Could Step-up and Immediately Morf AA
Parker has put a lot of energy into winning union support for the merger. So why not try and convince AA's top customers that a merger with US would not lead to the decimation of the industry's best frequent flyer program. US could immediately bring US Air's frequent flyer program up to par with AA's; 8 SWU's good on any fare, adopt AA's upgrade, award and redemption policies.
The next step Parker could take to win elites over would be be to implement AA's food service regime.
The next step Parker could take to win elites over would be be to implement AA's food service regime.
