More SFO / San Francisco cuts: AA closes pilot base

 
Old Oct 13, 2011, 12:33 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Xero
SFO I think still has an FA base, but I am not sure if they announced a closure for that.
The SFO FA base remains intact (for now). The announcement affects the pilots, not the FAs.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 1:00 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge
Does STL still have a FA base?
Yes; albeit, the base just lost its manager who is not being replaced.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 1:15 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA
I don't think AA flies nonstop from SFO to AUS.
I see what happened. AA's timetable showed it as nonstop but when I hit the "add flight information to trip planner" button, it comes up at 5 hours and 25 minutes. That's indeed not a nonstop flight. It also does have a "1-stop" as well.

Kind of strange though as it doesn't give a connection city..

Originally Posted by lbbzman
According to the current AA PDF timetable, even SFO-AUS isn't nonstop. To answer your question, I don't see any nonstop AA-operated flights from SFO to anything other than a hub or 'cornerstone' city.

Cheers,
LBBZman
Yah, thanks. That's what I thought. So its only the "cornerstone" cities anyway.

Originally Posted by AAerSTL
You can deny it all you want now, but there have been posts in the past praising SFO crews and their service (specifically regarding the now discontinued SFO-HNL route) and its clear the locals have a sense of pride in their local base and valued it somewhat. Although the DOMESTIC FA base closure has not been announced its looking increasingly likely following this announcement. Again, you can spin things however you want but it doesn't change the facts. Administrative support positions are eliminated; perhaps there is a small office in the airport housing the base that will close. Commuting crews have "crashpads" in their base city that they now no longer need, fewer crews will spend money at the airport concessions.
I'm a Bay Area "local". Never noticed who were local and who weren't. Yesterday my flight had a Chicago-based pilot crew and some other location based F/A crew. Last Saturday, my flight had a LAX-based crew. No problems again.

Last edited by Jacobin777; Oct 13, 2011 at 1:48 pm
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 1:28 pm
  #19  
 
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I'm coming late in the game to this, but...

I'm in SFO and I'm wondering why I would want it to be a hub? Wouldn't that mean I'd pay hub fares for every flight? Also, as a mileage runner, I consider longer itineraries to be a bonus.

As long as the AC stays open, I don't think I'm going to complain.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 1:34 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by EaglesOhThree
at what point to the SFO people just plain realize AA isn't coming back there and move their business to wherever they think the grass is greener?
It will be a rainy day in hell before I move my business to UA at SFO after the devaluation of their frequent flyer program for both midtier and lifetime members. I have been flying both AA and UA and will be moving all my business to AA now. As a leisure flyer I can live with the changes. Just not enough to make me abandon AA. A separate factor, for those at the 1K level at UA, is you have to "buy-up" to a higher fares to use systemwides there. I refuse to do that and have given all my systemwides away the last two years. I have not done that with AA systemwides.

The grass is not always greener on the other side just because they have more flights.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 1:36 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Thunderroad
I know I'm going against the flow here, but given the recent and IMHO ongoing deterioration in UA's FF program, I might well prioritize AA over UA next year.
You're not alone in that point of view.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 2:07 pm
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Originally Posted by EaglesOhThree
at what point to the SFO people just plain realize AA isn't coming back there and move their business to wherever they think the grass is greener?
Most of us have realized it, hence the immense success SFO's hub carrier is having. That doesn't mean, however, that a member of the board can't post any news regarding SFO or the crew base whatsoever. When news happens related to AA, people are going to post it-whether it has to do with the San Francisco Bay Area or not.

What's getting redundant is the usual complaints we have every single time the market is mentioned-as if some would advocate a ban on mentioning any news related to it whatsoever. really.

Originally Posted by Xero
And the benefit of flying SFO-LAX-wherever means that I'll trump anyone originating in LAX for upgrades.
This is one thing that I loved about connecting on AA anywhere-it'd be an extremely rare occurrence for me not to be #1 on any upgrade list when I am waitlisted the day of departure. That being said, it'd be nice if Bay Area flyers would not have to fly out of SJC to take a morning connection out of LAX. I believe there are no flights earlier than 7am still and still only 6 a day to LAX.

--

We know that every decision AA has made so far has been beneficial to the company and to its customers, that's why they're posting record profits! <sarcasm>

Since switching to United/Continental and becoming a 1K/Plat, I noticed that from a frequent flyer standpoint I preferred being an EXP.

UA's route network, which blows AA's out of the water in the Bay Area and almost every where else, is of course, another story. And I've been greatly satisfied with on-time departures/arrivals (of which UA has bested AA in time and time again)-and a convenient schedule across the country.

So, I'm as satisfied as I can be with UA now, but AA's continuation of route cuts and deterioration of a convenient schedule makes it impossible for me to fly them. It would maybe be a different story if the network had stayed the same as it was 2 years ago.

Like I said, the cuts hit home when you're trying to fly between two major cities (SFO and MSP)--and a major storm in DFW cancels your SFO-ORD segment--and AA tells you that due to the planes being 100% full, they can't get you to Minn. for 3 days and tough luck-where as on virtually every other airline, all the other flights were open. Cancelled it out, and purchased an F class ticket on DL. That's when you know it's time to go-the deteriorated network leaves little room for IRROPS and I don't want to be constantly on-edge with AA's proactive cancellations and stingyness on rebooking and compensation.

Bottom line in my view:
AA = below average airline (in terms of planes, IFE, on-time issues, customer experience) with a world class FFP for its top tier elites.

UA = fantastic airline (superior route network even in non-hubs, E+, chan 9, DTV w/ CO, on-time) with an OK FFP that focuses a bit more on high rev.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 2:11 pm
  #23  
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Special Flight Department Hotline
SPECIAL FLIGHT DEPARTMENT HOTLINE
October 13, 2011

This is CA John Hale with the Flight Department Hotline for Thursday, Oct. 13.

One fact of life that you and I as pilots have accepted is that while we don’t always choose the circumstances we find ourselves in, we must find the course that ensures the safe completion of our flight. No matter what position you hold on the flight deck, it is understood that you will analyze every situation and given the options ahead, you choose the best of what you’re given.

That’s the reality of leadership as well, and while I’d prefer to deal with only the good news and positive situations, just as we all do in the cockpit, I must deal with them all. Today I have to inform you of the decision to close our San Francisco crew base. This decision was not made lightly and comes with much regret and only after intensive discussion and strategic analysis. Unfortunately, this difficult course of action proves to be the best in the long run for all concerned.

As many of you know, the recent surge in retirements has left our manning levels to be critically short to the detriment of our schedule reliability. We were unable to achieve a bridge agreement to allow us to temporarily ease the manning crunch, so we must find another way to underwrite the reliability of our operation. That means concentrating our resources where we were need them most and marshaling our forces around our cornerstones strategy. The current economic environment also leaves us faced with making tough choices about where and how we spend our money and this closure will save significant reserve and management costs.

While this is not the course we’d planned on or hoped for, we must nonetheless take the required steps to deal with the situation we now find ourselves in, adapting and finding another clear path through difficult circumstances. That’s not only the commitment we make every day on the flight deck, but also the reality of the airline business in the 21st century.

Of course, we understand the impact this decision has on pilots and families, just as we have experienced many times before in the closing of pilot crew bases in Raleigh-Durham, Seattle, Nashville, and San Diego. We in the Flight Department stand ready to help the pilots who are affected by the base closure to move smoothly into positions at other bases around our system.

You’ve heard me say it before, but I’ll repeat it again: we are the strongest we can be when we work cooperatively and with a commitment to the ultimate goal, which is a thriving and secure American Airlines, solidly positioned for the future in a very competitive industry. Together, we’ll get through this difficult time, reinforce our airline’s resilience, and, in the process, ensure our future and that of our 70,000 coworkers.

That’s all for today.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 2:15 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by tom911
It will be a rainy day in hell before I move my business to UA at SFO after the devaluation of their frequent flyer program for both midtier and lifetime members. I have been flying both AA and UA and will be moving all my business to AA now. As a leisure flyer I can live with the changes. Just not enough to make me abandon AA. A separate factor, for those at the 1K level at UA, is you have to "buy-up" to a higher fares to use systemwides there. I refuse to do that and have given all my systemwides away the last two years. I have not done that with AA systemwides.

The grass is not always greener on the other side just because they have more flights.
I hear what you're saying here. It definitely makes me prefer EXP to 1K. I don't travel internationally too much so when I do the buy-up isn't usually too big of a problem. The buy-up can probably be a bit painful, understandably, if the C upgrade doesn't clear in the end, but UA has a bigger widebody fleet with the 747s for example having 51 seats in C class. Domestically, I find that I can easily pick a 757 or 763 to most of the locations I fly ex-SFO, and increase my chances of an upgrade in the process. On AA I've got 738s, inconvenient connections in some of the most congested markets in the country, with anklebiter battlefield upgrades and "seasonal" capacity cuts to NYC.

If the frequent flyer program alone was my choice, I think AA would be the easiest option in terms of redemption benefits (miles for hotels) and upgrades (no fare class consideration other than Y/Bconnection trumping etc)--but I just got really tired of spending hours in ORD and DFW and dealing with proactive cancellations every time it sprinkles. As long as I get my domestic upgrade I'm usually OK with the experience thereafter. There's a few things I miss on AA-but again, I just enjoyed arriving early 95%+ of the time and sitting in a cushy leather domestic F seat or E+ seat w/ a decent BOB option along with a convenient schedule that fit my travel needs
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 2:17 pm
  #25  
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I'm assuming that most of the pilots will be stationed down the Coast at LAX?
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 2:30 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by demkr
with a convenient schedule that fit my travel needs
Wow, you travel 200K mostly-domestic miles a year and live near SFO? I can't believe you ever flew AA in the first place. UA definitely makes the most sense for you.

On another note, I had no clue AA even had an SFO pilots base. They should have closed that down a while ago... can't see how it lasted this long given their strategy/cornerstone cities.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 2:47 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by mmjaysee
Wow, you travel 200K mostly-domestic miles a year and live near SFO? I can't believe you ever flew AA in the first place. UA definitely makes the most sense for you.

On another note, I had no clue AA even had an SFO pilots base. They should have closed that down a while ago... can't see how it lasted this long given their strategy/cornerstone cities.
Let me tell you, in 2009 it was easy. We had the STL and BOS and SNA and HNL options, a whole lot more 767s and 757s, and upgrades were usually fairly easy. The schedule provided mostly for connections, but they were convenient and I generally wouldn't have to sweat out an upgrade as an EXP.

I had been with AA since 2006, since living in Southern Illinois (MWA/STL) back when it was a hub operation-and was mainly pretty satisfied, and didn't see any reason to change after achieving status on AA for the first time.

After the last two year's consistent cuts to destinations and capacity cuts to the hubs, the picture was bleaker and I experienced more delays/cancellations/IRROPs than ever before--because of these situations that understandably are out of AA's control, I would find that getting rebooked would be a challenge since there were few flights with empty seats.

That, among other issues that I had with the way AA handled certain problems I faced, made me decide it was time for a change. As I have said before there are things that I miss, but the schedule/CR1s/IRROPs operation was the make-or-break for me.

AA has clearly decided that the Bay Area doesn't matter-and the many of us that have switched loyalties as a result wish them and their employees all the best
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 3:11 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by demkr

Bottom line in my view:
AA = below average airline (in terms of planes, IFE, on-time issues, customer experience) with a world class FFP for its top tier elites.

UA = fantastic airline (superior route network even in non-hubs, E+, chan 9, DTV w/ CO, on-time) with an OK FFP that focuses a bit more on high rev.
I might quibble with your view a bit (e.g., I'd never call UA a fantastic airline) and add a few elements to the calculation, but basically I think you've summed up the differences quite well.
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 4:31 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Thunderroad
I might quibble with your view a bit (e.g., I'd never call UA a fantastic airline) and add a few elements to the calculation, but basically I think you've summed up the differences quite well.
thanks. I suppose fantastic has its own meaning. For me, it's mainly the hard product. I find UA's planes to be spotless and clean, decent audio/ch 9 and video entertainment options, and really comfortable F cabins with wide armrests and level of recline.

Aside from that, UA has an amazing ability to turn a plane in under 15 minutes (something AA couldn't do for the life of itself) and get the plane out to the runway as quickly as possible for takeoff. This is what the making is of a good airline.

Their weaknesses compared to AA are the new FFP (which largely puts revenue before status in a lot of areas, and to AA's credit, status comes 1st in most)--and airport experience. SFO T3 is a madhouse in the morning and at UA the TSA security checkpoints have long lines -- if AA was still in T3 I don't know *how long* we'd be waiting. lol
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Old Oct 13, 2011, 4:34 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by EaglesOhThree
at what point to the SFO people just plain realize AA isn't coming back there and move their business to wherever they think the grass is greener?
Between the SJC meltdown and the gradual demise at SFO, I saw the writing on the wall and switched to Uninental a couple of years ago. I was also motivated by too many mechanical delays on the mad dogs. I also greatly value non-stops now - they pretty much trump carrier loyalty to me.
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