emma dog

No major went after frontier for two reasons... UA and WN. DEN can't sustain 2 large airlines and no one really wants to compete with UA. WN is coming in now and this is really hampering anyone's ability to cherrypick the good markets away from UA.

As said earlier, there are only a couple places that can support multiple airlines hubbing. ATL, ORD, SFO/OAK, IAD/DCA/BWI and NYC. Outside of DFW, offhand I can't think of a major US city that also has a lot of corporate presence that could support a second airline's hub.

emma dog

WN does have hubs... it's that they've been real good at not calling them hubs! But if any other airline ran: BWI, MDW, or LAS, they'd call them hubs. And any other airline would call OAK, PHX, LUV, TPA, MCO, and MCI focus cities. They've just been real discreet about it.

ccengct

The AA RDU hub was a start-from-scratch operation, as was SJC and BNA. Not long after opening RDU, AA did acquire Air Virginia (a commuter operator) and fold it into American Eagle, but that was a very minor chapter in the RDU story. Eventually AA unloaded RDU onto Midway #2, which was arm's length from AA. Midway #2 later failed on its own, restarted as Midway #3 with no ties to AA at all, then died for good. AA then covered some of the RDU hub routes with American Eagle, and that remains true today.

ccengct

I doubt it. By the mid-1990s it was clear that WN was moving into the east -- and especially Florida -- in a very big way. AA's RDU hub was designed specifically to move people between the northeast and Florida. AA didn't have the aircraft to increase economic efficiency by doubling the number of northbound and southbound banks at RDU; and even if they did, WN would have blown AA away. Game over.

The PI hub in CLT was patterned after DL/EA at ATL... many more gates than AA at RDU, more rushes, and a much broader set of destinations. O/D traffic at CLT isn't significantly higher than RDU; the difference is that PI built a heck of a customer base over a wide territory. For the most part, both ex-AL and ex-AW management at US has had the sense to leave well enough alone at CLT.

elitetraveler

I remember flying RDU-CHO which I believe was the Air Virginia service you mentioned. I wasn't clear - yes, I know RDU was start from scratch. I wasn't sure about the renditions of Midway except my memory that Midway 2 at some point moved its operation from MDW to RDU and I think took a bunch of AA F100s to operate the hub. I think they may also have operated A320 types.

KD5MDK

So would we be looking at an AA hub at CLT and a flight to LHR from RDU 160 miles away? Or would we start seeing CLT-RDU service as positioning flights...

6P&E

Part of the problem with RDU and BNA is that each had only 3 banks in each direction every day. Also outside of the RDU and BNA metro areas, most frequent flyers in the Southeast were loyal to DL and US. DL and US gave them the miles and the frequencies via ATL and CLT they wanted. I imagine that the Southeast still has a relatively low AAdvantage base.

6P&E

Doesn't the Research Triangle, or its corporate tentants, make it worth AA's while to keep the RDU-LHR flight? Without that "support", given the size of the metro area (with no connecting feed) and with sevice already out of CLT to LON, there would not be enough demand for daily 777 flights from RDU-LHR.

MJonTravel

My opinion, and nothing but my opinion. AA is not looking to merge with US. AA might be interested in plucking some US assets out of bankruptcy if US wound up there. AA managers have their hands full managing union expectations and trying to survive the collapse in premium revenue travel. I don't see how a merger with US helps them accomplish any of that.

I do wonder if there could be some interest in having US move to Oneworld. I'm kinda thinking out loud on that one. I don't know if that's desirable or even possible at this point. I can't help but think that US might be exploring its opportunities now that CO has moved to Star and is obviously the favored child as opposed to US.

All that said, the thought of a Charlotte hub for AA brings joy to my heart. Whether or not that would be profitable for AA is for people smarter than me to figure out.

KD5MDK

Yes, but it's a 763 and I'm just commenting that it would be weird to have an international flight departing so close to a domestic hub unless they were linked somehow.

formeraa

Having worked for AA at the time, RDU and BNA were all started "from scratch" hubs. SJC emerged from the merger with AirCal. These hubs were originally designed to be smaller hubs at a time when that seemed to make more economic sense (than today). From an inflation-adjusted standpoint, fares were much higher in the late-80's than they are today.

SJC was designed primarily to handle traffic up and down the West Coast, after the merger with AirCal. Unfortunately, this was poorly thought out from the beginning. If AA had bothered to carefully examine the West Coast market, they would realize that passengers wanted point-to-point service (either nonstop or 1-stop). Also, SEA and PDX are the only major cities "north" of SJC -- so a hub really didn't make a lot of sense.

RDU was designed to carry traffic from the Northeast to the Southeast with 3 connecting banks in each direction. This may have been another bad call, since passengers tend to prefer direct flights from the NE to Florida.

BNA was designed to carry traffic from the Southwest (south and west of BNA) to the Northeast (north and east of BNA) as well as traffic from the Northwest (north and west of BNA) to the Southeast (south and east of BNA). BNA probably had the most potential, but many of these connections could also be handled through DFW or ORD. Also, the runway expansion at DFW allowed AA to greatly expand at DFW, where there were operational efficiencies.

elitetraveler

Were there any other cities AA looked at when they started the RDU and BNA hubs. This would have predated UA at IAD I think? Not sure what the alternatives would have been, but just curious.

Also, AA under Crandall was always know for its rigorous analysis of various options. Was there much division as to whether these hub launches were good ideas? It certainly sounds like there were some strong reasons not to have launched them. Not sure if you were in a position to know, but again, would be interesting to hear the perspective from somebody who was there.

zman

Can u name a few assets that U.S. has that anyone would be interested in getting from Bankrupcy?

It is not planes, people, mechanics, repair contracts, executives, managers, airport space, gates, FF program.
Maybe a few DCA or LGA slots.
Anything else?

BOB W

From what I've read here, they don't have any to forget.....

videomaker

I can't think of anything. IMO, the only one fueling rumor speculation is Doug Parker--and it's wishful thinking on his part.