taxicabnumber

[NB: I searched for this but couldn't quite find the answer -- this link (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...no-co-pay.html) is the closest I could find so apologies if I missed something else.]

I've got a round trip SFO-PVG this winter. SFO-PVG (via LAX) is a B fare, and PVG-SFO is a V fare. The B fare was $750 and the V fare was $550 (i.e. each is one half of an RT fare), plus taxes and YQ. I've confirmed SWUs on the return leg, but am waitlisted on the outbound leg (the one with the B fare).

I figured since the outbound is a B fare I could upgrade using 15k miles + no copay and save my SWUs for another trip on a lower fare. Called and asked about this, and agent tells me that since my B fare is a "discounted B fare" (which it very much is), it'll be 25k miles + $350. I see nothing on aa.com about this; only exceptions for military and government fares, neither of which mine is.

HUCA or was she correctly quoting an unpublished rule?

arollins

It clearly says on AA upgrade pages that the upgrade components for trips to/from China is 25k + $350 from discount economy. 15k and $0 copay from full fare economy. Since the outbound is B, full fare economy, there shouldn't be copay. I suggest HUCA, and if agents says the same again, please refer him to upgrade chart in AA.com. Link is here: https://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/r...rade-chart.jsp

JonNYC

That's an interesting case as it's clearly a -B- fare but it's not "Full-Fare Economy with published fares booked in Y or B" (and the various readings of that statement.)

I've seen this come up before and even asked about it with some differing results.

I assume the fare is non-refundable? They often try to use that as the determiner.

But, obviously, first step is to try another AAgent or 2 see if you get a better answer.

Mark_T

Interesting, I've never had a problem upgrading a 'discounted' B fare on the LHR-DFW route.

I normally get at least one of these every year and have never been charged a co-pay, just the miles.

Superguy

I'd either HUCA, or tell them to refer to the award chart. I ran into this on my most recent trip to LHR on both directions. Y fare on AA metal going across, B fare coming back on US metal.

Many agents aren't used to working with Y/B fares, so they just rattle off the usual "miles and copay" line as these are relatively infrequent. Politely pointing out "It's a Y/B fare, there should be no copay" usually snaps them back with a "Oh yes, you're right. I'm sorry about that" and life goes on.

Keep in mind coming back from LHR that you have to pay the UK's premium departure tax, and that's collected at the time the upgrade's issued. Mine cost $103, and that's separate from the copay issue. There's no tax going TO LHR.

JonNYC

I's strongly suspect it's just a matter of getting a different agent on the phone-- but I definitely wouldn't push it too far with any particular agent who's having trouble-- hang up and skip right to the next.

Mark_T

I'm sure you are right.

I always take a positive stance when requesting the upgrade by telling the AAgent that "this is a miles only upgrade due to B fare and so no co-pay, right?"

Never hurts to start them off with the right mind-set rather than let them figure it out

Andriyko

There is no such thing as a 'premium departure tax'. There is Air Passenger Duty which is collected at the reduced rate for travel in the lowest class on the aircraft. When upgrading to a higher cabin from LHR the difference between the standard rate and the reduced rate will be collected.

Djokison

Superguy

Splitting hairs. I don't care what you want to call it, but the point is you have to pay more flying on a premium class out of LHR than most other places. LHR is the only place I've had to pay a tax to upgrade a flight out of (note you don't have to do it TO LHR).

You can call it an Air Passenger Duty or whatever you want. Premium travel is still taxed.

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dmsdfw

If you really want to pare that hair down, all departures from LHR are taxed, but a discount is given on non-premium seats (based on seat pitch). The extra money collected on an upgrade takes the tax paid back up to its pre-discount level. (I believe there is some subtle legal reason why a discount is given from a higher base tax rather than the more sensible option of a premium being added to a lower base.)

Andriyko

If it does not matter how you call it then call it what it is - Air Passenger Duty. And premium travel is not taxed - you get a discount if you travel in economy which you lose if you later choose to travel in a higher cabin. Losing a discount and being taxed for traveling in a premium class are not the same thing.

Superguy

Semantics. Net effect: You upgrade, you get out your credit card, you pay. Whether it's a "discount removed" or an additional fee, the end result is the same.

Andriyko

I don't mind and I agree that the net result is the same. But people are calling it a 'luxury tax', 'premium travel tax' or what not, which it is not. If the net result is the same then there is no reason to display one's frustration and dissatisfaction with losing the discount by calling APD what it is not. The only reason people are calling it 'additional fee' is to give it a bad name, but if everyone agrees that it's just the semantics then let's call it 'removal of the discount', which is the correct way.

JonNYC

Let's just call it a tax instead.