Hypothetical question - if CX restricts F awards to AA members...
Mar 29, 2015, 3:50 pm
#1
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Hypothetical question - if CX restricts F awards to AA members...
Yes, its only a hypothetical question as MPC and Asiamiles is due to a total revamp, according to inside sources- there might be massive changes to not only its own frequent flyer programme but also to its partners' award redemptions.
There is talk that CX might go the way of SQ, in that it might restrict its top award redemptions eg First Class, to its own FFP members only. Or that CX might ask for double the miles required for a F ticket since their own FFP members need to spend more miles than AAdvantage members. If that is to happen, would AAdvantage members still continue to fly revenue with CX or transfer your say creditcard points to Asia Miles to redeem your ticket. Or would you boycott CX altogether..?
When SQ restricted their A380, 77W F and J award redemptions to every other FFP partner, sure , there were howls of protests.. (mainly from UA members). But now that the dust has settled, and people have accepted the fact that SQ doesn't really care if you boycott them or not, those who can are transferring their Amex points to Krisflyer and redeeming Suite Class tickets that way.
Just wondering what would AAdvantage members will do since a vast majority of members redeem your miles for CX awards.
There is talk that CX might go the way of SQ, in that it might restrict its top award redemptions eg First Class, to its own FFP members only. Or that CX might ask for double the miles required for a F ticket since their own FFP members need to spend more miles than AAdvantage members. If that is to happen, would AAdvantage members still continue to fly revenue with CX or transfer your say creditcard points to Asia Miles to redeem your ticket. Or would you boycott CX altogether..?
When SQ restricted their A380, 77W F and J award redemptions to every other FFP partner, sure , there were howls of protests.. (mainly from UA members). But now that the dust has settled, and people have accepted the fact that SQ doesn't really care if you boycott them or not, those who can are transferring their Amex points to Krisflyer and redeeming Suite Class tickets that way.
Just wondering what would AAdvantage members will do since a vast majority of members redeem your miles for CX awards.
Last edited by Guy Betsy; Mar 29, 2015 at 3:55 pm
Mar 29, 2015, 4:28 pm
#2
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Yes, its only a hypothetical question as MPC and Asiamiles is due to a total revamp, according to inside sources- there might be massive changes to not only its own frequent flyer programme but also to its partners' award redemptions.
There is talk that CX might go the way of SQ, in that it might restrict its top award redemptions eg First Class, to its own FFP members only. Or that CX might ask for double the miles required for a F ticket since their own FFP members need to spend more miles than AAdvantage members. If that is to happen, would AAdvantage members still continue to fly revenue with CX or transfer your say creditcard points to Asia Miles to redeem your ticket. Or would you boycott CX altogether..?
When SQ restricted their A380, 77W F and J award redemptions to every other FFP partner, sure , there were howls of protests.. (mainly from UA members). But now that the dust has settled, and people have accepted the fact that SQ doesn't really care if you boycott them or not, those who can are transferring their Amex points to Krisflyer and redeeming Suite Class tickets that way.
Just wondering what would AAdvantage members will do since a vast majority of members redeem your miles for CX awards.
There is talk that CX might go the way of SQ, in that it might restrict its top award redemptions eg First Class, to its own FFP members only. Or that CX might ask for double the miles required for a F ticket since their own FFP members need to spend more miles than AAdvantage members. If that is to happen, would AAdvantage members still continue to fly revenue with CX or transfer your say creditcard points to Asia Miles to redeem your ticket. Or would you boycott CX altogether..?
When SQ restricted their A380, 77W F and J award redemptions to every other FFP partner, sure , there were howls of protests.. (mainly from UA members). But now that the dust has settled, and people have accepted the fact that SQ doesn't really care if you boycott them or not, those who can are transferring their Amex points to Krisflyer and redeeming Suite Class tickets that way.
Just wondering what would AAdvantage members will do since a vast majority of members redeem your miles for CX awards.
Mar 29, 2015, 11:08 pm
#3
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Yes, its only a hypothetical question as MPC and Asiamiles is due to a total revamp, according to inside sources- there might be massive changes to not only its own frequent flyer programme but also to its partners' award redemptions.
There is talk that CX might go the way of SQ, in that it might restrict its top award redemptions eg First Class, to its own FFP members only. Or that CX might ask for double the miles required for a F ticket since their own FFP members need to spend more miles than AAdvantage members. If that is to happen, would AAdvantage members still continue to fly revenue with CX or transfer your say creditcard points to Asia Miles to redeem your ticket. Or would you boycott CX altogether..?
When SQ restricted their A380, 77W F and J award redemptions to every other FFP partner, sure , there were howls of protests.. (mainly from UA members). But now that the dust has settled, and people have accepted the fact that SQ doesn't really care if you boycott them or not, those who can are transferring their Amex points to Krisflyer and redeeming Suite Class tickets that way.
Just wondering what would AAdvantage members will do since a vast majority of members redeem your miles for CX awards.
There is talk that CX might go the way of SQ, in that it might restrict its top award redemptions eg First Class, to its own FFP members only. Or that CX might ask for double the miles required for a F ticket since their own FFP members need to spend more miles than AAdvantage members. If that is to happen, would AAdvantage members still continue to fly revenue with CX or transfer your say creditcard points to Asia Miles to redeem your ticket. Or would you boycott CX altogether..?
When SQ restricted their A380, 77W F and J award redemptions to every other FFP partner, sure , there were howls of protests.. (mainly from UA members). But now that the dust has settled, and people have accepted the fact that SQ doesn't really care if you boycott them or not, those who can are transferring their Amex points to Krisflyer and redeeming Suite Class tickets that way.
Just wondering what would AAdvantage members will do since a vast majority of members redeem your miles for CX awards.
Mar 29, 2015, 11:11 pm
#4
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There's a case to be made that the vast majority of AAdvantage members do not redeem for premium CX cabins- the majority of redemptions are for coach domestic awards on American Airlines. And we can be quite thankful that's the case, because there's only 60-70 or so Cathay F seats every day flying to the USA. That gives us something less than 30,000 CX F seats every year that are available for a US-based member originating in the USA, before we talk about purchased fares. So obviously not everyone could redeem their miles for CX F.
Here's a chart from Alaska Airlines (an AA/CX partner) that illustrates this:
I doubt that AA is incredibly different. (AS has arguably even BETTER redemption opportunities on CX than AA does: India/Africa/Middle East/Australia routings on one award, stopovers allowed in HKG. And yet CX is a rounding error on that chart I just reproduced here.)
FlyerTalk is really a very, very different crowd doing very different things than most of what happens in frequent flyer programs. Extrapolating from the Trip Report forum to what Joe and Jane Smith, Typical AA flyers do is a very dangerous assumption
As for what will happen here, if it does happen (which is pure speculation): FTers will moan, complain, rend garments and yell curses... and then figure out other ways to get premium cabin redemptions (AsiaMiles transfers via credit card, other airlines or loyalty schemes, or what have you). Nothing stays static in this world.
Last edited by eponymous_coward; Mar 29, 2015 at 11:23 pm
Mar 30, 2015, 1:49 am
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So, these seats AA flyers redeem for that y'all are complaining about, they are available for any CX flyer with a sufficient AM balance to take, yes? It's not like they are being offered to AA and NEVER offered to AM, right?
So... given that they aren't being taken, excluding partners means there will be a lot more empty seats.
I think that would mean more 77Gs and perhaps smaller F cabins, right? An empty F seat produces zero revenue. You already have the same opportunity to burn for award seats... you just choose not to. So I would think you should be careful what you ask for; a revenue management department that sees a lot of unsold inventory that goes completely unused is going to reduce the inventory.
(It's always fun seeing various groups of FTers squabble over the frequent flyer trough.)
So... given that they aren't being taken, excluding partners means there will be a lot more empty seats.
I think that would mean more 77Gs and perhaps smaller F cabins, right? An empty F seat produces zero revenue. You already have the same opportunity to burn for award seats... you just choose not to. So I would think you should be careful what you ask for; a revenue management department that sees a lot of unsold inventory that goes completely unused is going to reduce the inventory.
(It's always fun seeing various groups of FTers squabble over the frequent flyer trough.)
Mar 30, 2015, 10:17 pm
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Mar 30, 2015, 10:47 pm
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Mar 31, 2015, 12:41 am
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Mar 31, 2015, 2:12 am
#10
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And getting rid of AA redemptions doesn't fix the problem of not selling revenue seats. Consider that most of them are last-minute redemptions.
F for most carriers is usually done on the "million dollar glass of lemonade" principle: "I only have to sell one!". If the seat's going to fly empty, there's little harm in allowing a partner redemption. The harm is consistently unsold inventory... and getting rid of F on CX isn't going to make people redeeming AsiaMiles or upgrading very happy...
I think something that deserves mention is that CX isn't SQ; for one thing SQ only flies 5 flights to North America daily (CX flies that many to NYC), and SQ can sell their F/R as fifth freedom flights; they can sell as a IAH-DME, SFO-HKG/ICN, JFK-FRA or LAX-NRT nonstop. CX can't do that, and they are a lot more exposed to the US as well.
Mar 31, 2015, 2:49 am
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F for most carriers is usually done on the "million dollar glass of lemonade" principle: "I only have to sell one!". If the seat's going to fly empty, there's little harm in allowing a partner redemption. The harm is consistently unsold inventory... and getting rid of F on CX isn't going to make people redeeming AsiaMiles or upgrading very happy...
1. No-one's suggesting AAdvantage members have *better* access to AM inventory than AM members at any point in time
2. Unlike QR, CX still does release a fair number of premium seats before departure. How much standby you have to do is a problem.
3. But then again, even with AM having advantaged access to CX inventory, we don't like AAdvantage members playing in our sandpit. After all we might want that one- or two-month out inventory to Bali for wedding or to YVR for the grandparents, we don't want Aadvantage wiping CX inventory clean at T+330.
4. It looks like pretty one-way traffic to us - AM members hardly use AA inventory.
Of course I'm thinking from the most extreme parochial point of view (with few exceptions AA doesn't really affect any routes I really redeem - maybe with the exception of YVR). But it's hard for us to perceive any sale of redemption seats to AAdvantage as not being a dilution to us, or on the flip side that by kicking AAdvantage members out we may not recover the inventory (seats that won't be sold anyway).
Mar 31, 2015, 9:20 am
#12
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Let me try and sort out my thoughts on this:
1. No-one's suggesting AAdvantage members have *better* access to AM inventory than AM members at any point in time
2. Unlike QR, CX still does release a fair number of premium seats before departure. How much standby you have to do is a problem.
3. But then again, even with AM having advantaged access to CX inventory, we don't like AAdvantage members playing in our sandpit. After all we might want that one- or two-month out inventory to Bali for wedding or to YVR for the grandparents, we don't want Aadvantage wiping CX inventory clean at T+330.
4. It looks like pretty one-way traffic to us - AM members hardly use AA inventory.
Of course I'm thinking from the most extreme parochial point of view (with few exceptions AA doesn't really affect any routes I really redeem - maybe with the exception of YVR). But it's hard for us to perceive any sale of redemption seats to AAdvantage as not being a dilution to us, or on the flip side that by kicking AAdvantage members out we may not recover the inventory (seats that won't be sold anyway).
1. No-one's suggesting AAdvantage members have *better* access to AM inventory than AM members at any point in time
2. Unlike QR, CX still does release a fair number of premium seats before departure. How much standby you have to do is a problem.
3. But then again, even with AM having advantaged access to CX inventory, we don't like AAdvantage members playing in our sandpit. After all we might want that one- or two-month out inventory to Bali for wedding or to YVR for the grandparents, we don't want Aadvantage wiping CX inventory clean at T+330.
4. It looks like pretty one-way traffic to us - AM members hardly use AA inventory.
Of course I'm thinking from the most extreme parochial point of view (with few exceptions AA doesn't really affect any routes I really redeem - maybe with the exception of YVR). But it's hard for us to perceive any sale of redemption seats to AAdvantage as not being a dilution to us, or on the flip side that by kicking AAdvantage members out we may not recover the inventory (seats that won't be sold anyway).
/thread
Last edited by skunker; Mar 31, 2015 at 9:28 am
Mar 31, 2015, 10:00 am
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When SQ restricted their A380, 77W F and J award redemptions to every other FFP partner, sure , there were howls of protests.. (mainly from UA members). But now that the dust has settled, and people have accepted the fact that SQ doesn't really care if you boycott them or not, those who can are transferring their Amex points to Krisflyer and redeeming Suite Class tickets that way.