Absolutely a safety issue. Escalate and include the lame response. I don't know that a refund would be in order, but a proper acknowledgement and some form of compensation would be.
If the safety issue is because the kids were up during the seat belt announcement, how would that entitle him to compensation?
I am willing to bet they would have disrupted him the same had the seat belt sign been on.
I'm in the AA owes you nothing camp, at least with regard to cash payment. 5,000 miles per pax would have been a nice and, IMO, generous, gesture.
That said, I might be an advocate of self-help in such a situation, as has already been suggested here. Accidents do happen, and a passenger can, indeed, slip on something carelessly left on the floor by a child. And if the passenger happens to be carrying a full glass of a lovely red wine,.... Well, these things happen. Or, a bit less effective, perhaps, but also less assaultive, one could stand at the seat of one of the parents and talk to (at) them. Talk about anything, -- you probably have accumulated many interesting and funny stories in your life, and I'm sure that the parents will be fascinated by, say, the time in college when you had far too much to drink and woke up on the bathroom floor in a puddle of.... And, since the parents will have absolutely no interest in AVOD, reading or sleep once they start to hear your hilarious stories, I'm sure that you'll all get along just swimmingly.
Some parents care about their children's behavior and the effects on other people. Some rely on platitudes like "children will be children" to avoid the burden of taking responsibility so they can ignore inappropriate behavior. Sorry, but kids running rampant, flipping window shades, hitting people, etc. is not the same as someone going to the bathroom.Kids cry- that's a fact. Kids behave as the OP related when the parents (obviously, in this case) can't be bothered to provide any discipline. The above is pure rationalization for mediocre parenting. Parents should not take their "bad days" out on other people.
Cheers.
This is perhaps one of the most succinct, well stated points I've seen made on this forum in several days. I agree completely. There are simply things that children will do based on age/maturity that are not much in a parent's control (e.g. an infants ears hurting upon ascent/decent and thus the infant cries), I deal with that. However, there are behavioral items that are absolutely within a parent's control, and in fact, in my opinion is their responsibility to act on and resolve. I feel like I'm going to sound like a "grumpy old man" here but my response in reading all this continues to be, "If I had acted this way as a child MY father woulda' knocked the $%#&@ out of me!"
In reading through the thread I find myself torn re: compensation, could more have been done, etc. This is a tough one. I feel for the OP and it seems like a bit stronger tone could have been struck by AA. However, I'm not sure AA owes compensation. This seems like one of those "things" you read about and silently hope never happens on your flight, all the while realizing that it certainly could.
Sadly, I also realize that as far as this seemed to escalate, even if it had ultimately been addressed by say the CPT coming out (though it sounds like from skylady that's no longer an option) or something, I suspect the flight for the folks in the F cabin was pretty much ruined no matter what. I suspect many folks would have merely sat in that uncomfortable silence, stewing about the events that had transpired (I know that's what I'd likely have done) and likely had trouble enjoying the rest of the flight service anyhow.
Sad situation... and yes, I'm silently hoping it won't happen to me!
Regards
You clearly didn't read properly. Where did sambbsay "loud"? He mentioned climbing over him to get to the bathroom and using a Blackberry, a largely silent event. Both of which are perfectly allowable and certainly not annoying in the least. Sounds like the sambb is one of those that feel its his responsibility to enforce the not-so-well-thought-out FAA "rules".
A screaming, running, hitting baby is far more annoying than some guy trying to get out to use the bathroom or using his Blackberry. To claim otherwise is simple silliness. You clearly hasn't read this thread very clearly.
Well annoying is a subjective term... there are behaviours that kids can do that i dont find annoying, but i find the same behavior annoying in an adult. A dirty diaper in a kid is alot less annoying than the same problem in an adult for example. But using an electronic device during takeoff when you are an EXP and you know the rules - what example does that set? If EXP adults cannot follow the rules, then I wouldn't expect children to do so either.
Is this event unfortunate? Yes. Should there be compensation? That is up to AA, but I dont see it. If you dont want to be potentially near kids, one could always drive or fly private jet. There are options for those to get away from kids.
I do not condone the lack of discipline, but it can happen. There are plenty of bad parents in the world, and they are allowed to fly, eat in restaurants, drive, and do a lot of other things. Sure the kids could have been physically disciplined, but I doubt that smacking a kid would have calmed them down... often it makes them worse, and then you hav 10 witnesses saying you are a child abuser. Cant win.
Maybe I'm being naive but would it not be more appropriate to seek compensation from the party that is responsible for the disturbance? The parents? They are in charge of their children and they made your trip uncomfortable, so they are the ones I would think you seek compensation from not from AA.
Well annoying is a subjective term... there are behaviours that kids can do that i dont find annoying, but i find the same behavior annoying in an adult. A dirty diaper in a kid is alot less annoying than the same problem in an adult for example. But using an electronic device during takeoff when you are an EXP and you know the rules - what example does that set? If EXP adults cannot follow the rules, then I wouldn't expect children to do so either.
Is this event unfortunate? Yes. Should there be compensation? That is up to AA, but I dont see it. If you dont want to be potentially near kids, one could always drive or fly private jet. There are options for those to get away from kids.
I do not condone the lack of discipline, but it can happen. There are plenty of bad parents in the world, and they are allowed to fly, eat in restaurants, drive, and do a lot of other things.
There is nothing wrong, whatsoever, with using a Blackberry on takeoff. And your assertion that EXP's should follow the rules as examples for others, including children, is both absurd and childish.
I believe electronic devices cannot be used during takeoff, including a blackberry. I am sorry if I am not up to date on the rules. Maybe something has changed. if EXP are allowed to use them during takeoff now, then great, I stand corrected on the rules issue. I guess different things annoy different people. Kids just dont bother me. Adults who cannot obey the rules, even if they know them, now THAT is annoying as heck to me.
I believe electronic devices cannot be used during takeoff, including a blackberry. I am sorry if I am not up to date on the rules. Maybe something has changed. if EXP are allowed to use them during takeoff now, then great, I stand corrected on the rules issue. I guess different things annoy different people. Kids just dont bother me. Adults who cannot obey the rules, even if they know them, now THAT is annoying as heck to me.
How does someone using a blackberry on takeoff annoy you, when one using it on the ground or at cruise doesn't?
Children acting as described by the OP is simply annoying. Period. To claim otherwise is pure bull.
There is nothing wrong, whatsoever, with using a Blackberry on takeoff. And your assertion that EXP's should follow the rules as examples for others, including children, is both absurd and childish.
BenjaminNYC-
It annoys me because it breaks a clear on-flight rule that every EXP should be aware of. Different things annoy different people. Kids just don't bother me. You said that there is nothing wrong with using a BB during takeoff. I still dont see where that rule changed, but I am sorry if there has been a change in policy that i missed.
I am sure that the kids probably broke some rules too - but they are kids with probably bad parents. That is ALL not their fault - they couldn't pick their parents. It is also their parents fault. But when an EXP cannot obey the rules on flight - that is his or her own fault. I just find adults breaking rules a lot more annoying. Obviously we can disagree.
BenjaminNYC-
It annoys me because it breaks a clear on-flight rule that every EXP should be aware of. Different things annoy different people. Kids just don't bother me. You said that there is nothing wrong with using a BB during takeoff. I still dont see where that rule changed, but I am sorry if there has been a change in policy that i missed.
I am sure that the kids probably broke some rules too - but they are kids with probably bad parents. That is ALL not their fault - they couldn't pick their parents. It is also their parents fault. But when an EXP cannot obey the rules on flight - that is his or her own fault. I just find adults breaking rules a lot more annoying. Obviously we can disagree.
Where did I blame the kids? What are you talking about? The fault lies with the parents and AA for not using FA/Pilots' authority to control the children's behavior.
Where did I blame the kids? What are you talking about? The fault lies with the parents and AA for not using FA/Pilots' authority to control the children's behavior.
How far are you advocating that the "control" could go? Can FAs and others physically restrain the kids? How about tying them up? There have to be some guidelines. I wonder how far anyone would let adults use their "authority" to "control" the behaviors. Clearly, this is a gray area. I am still waiting to see why it is OK for EXP to break the rules, but not ok for the kids/parents on this flight. Maybe the EXP can tie the kids up! that is a joke - lighten up... you can have the last word... good night...
How far are you advocating that the "control" could go? Can FAs and others physically restrain the kids? How about tying them up? There have to be some guidelines. I wonder how far anyone would let adults use their "authority" to "control" the behaviors. Clearly, this is a gray area. I am still waiting to see why it is OK for EXP to break the rules, but not ok for the kids/parents on this flight. Maybe the EXP can tie the kids up! that is a joke - lighten up...
Your inability to read this thread properly is becoming tiresome.
As I and others have stated, the FA and crew made NO effort to tell the parents to control their children. They should have. A comment such as, "Ma'am, your children are disrupting other passengers and flight operations, and if you're not unable to control them to some degree, I will have to call the Pilot, who may request the authorities to meet you all upon arrival." I bet that would have quickly put the parents into action to control the unruly children.
And, again, your claim that the children's behavior as described by the OP would not bother you, or bother you less than a gentleman using his blackberry next to you, is an out and out lie.
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How it should be.
I was on a flight on the 31st, and had two ankle biters in the row behind me in FC. Each had a parent by their side. A few times the kids started to get a little out of hand, and their parents put a quick stop to it. I got two kicks to the back of my seat, and then that came to a stop. I also saw the 2 1/2-3 year old start to put a drink stirrer into the electrical outlet. I firmly said, "No" to her, and her parents quickly admonished her, and all was over. No crying, no problems with the parents, and basically behaved kids.
How does someone using a blackberry on takeoff annoy you, when one using it on the ground or at cruise doesn't?
Children acting as described by the OP is simply annoying. Period. To claim otherwise is pure bull.
If you have one of the older clockwork powered blackberries, then I don't have a problem. If on the other hand it is electronic, and has an off switch, then in needs to be off. The rules are there for a reason and I dislike self important twerps who think they are above the rules and therefore that it is okay for them to jeopardize everyone's safety.
