Miles in another program could come in handy in some such situations. But it would be amusing -- well, not really for the person impacted -- if that other program account got shut down too at or about the same time.
Not really since the Outbound was already flown all that is needed is to get back home. So 1 its hardly doubtful that a free tkt will be avaiable for that same day of travel, especially at Standard levels. That being said it might work out if AirTran is the other Carrier as they have 1 way awards. But Id hate to blow 50,000 miles on a Dom or 100,000 for Intl just to fly 1 way.
OK I know just put in any date for the return but then 1 would still have to find a way to get back after using that free tkts Return part to where they were nabbed. Thats also assuming that the person has a need to be back to that same destination. Probably alot better or alot easier to pay up and pay the piper.
The easiest thing is NOT to play the game what so ever, which is what they want to get across and have spread around. Thats why they cant simply slap a person on the wrist and say OK Ill let You go but you have been Warned. Cause then Everyone would do it till they are caught, thats both Buyers and Sellers.
For the record I've yet to have been caught , but then thats due to not having participated
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craz
The people who were flying had their return as XYZ-DFW-AUS but had no reason to go to AUS. The tkt was purchased with a return to AUS cause it was cheaper then if it was a XYZ-DFW tkt. DFW was really where they wanted to stop flying and had no reason to fly onto AUS.
Bingo. For a period of time in the late 90s all the way into 2001, fares from DFW to many west coast cities would run $1200+ on nonrefundable 14-day advance fares (I remember once seeing the lowest 21 day non-Saturday night stay DFW-PDX at almost $1800). AUS, on the other hand, was in the middle of the boom and flights to some of those same cities could be had as for less than $300 - ironically they came right up to DFW and connected straight to the same "expensive" DFW flight.
Someone in our travel department came up with the brilliant idea that we could fly DFW-AUS AUS-DFW-PDX-DFW-AUS AUS-DFW on two separate tickets... and then just throw away the DFW-AUS and AUS-DFW segments. Most of our travelers elected to do this because the west coast flights we had to take didn't connect in time to AUS to allow us to get back to DFW on Friday night so we had to overnight and come back on the first flight on Saturday.
Now I had friends in AUS at the time - so I would usually just take the extra two segments (and billable hotel) and go hang out with them - but others didn't. This ended though when AA met colleagues at the gate on a couple of Friday afternoons. The first week the guy who was met thought it was a fluke. The second week they were waiting for him again and this time had a list of ALL of us who were ticketed on our agency stock who were also on the AUS flight (I'm guessing when you have the same 10 or 12 no-show passengers every Friday it starts to get old?) - so I was surprised to see several of my colleagues boarding the AUS flight until I heard the story that they had been "met".
We continued the AUS thing for a while - used to all stay at the same hotel on Friday nights and go drinking - but fares finally went down. But it was an early cautionary tale to me of how much information AA can round up on not just you, but others with similar patterns/same bookers. I don't doubt I was possibly flagged as a throw-away ticketer either - I know our firm had a couple other ticketing violations and got hit with thousands in add/collect penalties as a result of those.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techgirl
Bingo. For a period of time in the late 90s all the way into 2001, fares from DFW to many west coast cities would run $1200+ on nonrefundable 14-day advance fares (I remember once seeing the lowest 21 day non-Saturday night stay DFW-PDX at almost $1800). AUS, on the other hand, was in the middle of the boom and flights to some of those same cities could be had as for less than $300 - ironically they came right up to DFW and connected straight to the same "expensive" DFW flight.
I think the prices were pushed down by Southwest. It opened my eyes in '98 or '99 when a friend suggested I drive to Dallas to go out for the evening, enroute to Nashville IIRC. I pretty soon canned that idea when I realized the flight from DFW was $1,000 compared with $350 from AUS, so then I started buying AA tickets to places like MHT & PVD instead of BOS, because AA would match WN fares on these routes. I got the best of both worlds - AA's then service, food, decent upgrade rate AND WN's prices.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craz
Im wondering, it seems that most of the time they are lying in wait for the person after the person has already flown their 1st leg and now is in no real position to do anything but anti up the $$$ and buy a tkt, since they arent in the Home area.
Does anyone know of cases where they stopped the person from using these so called ilgotten tkts before they flew the 1st Outbound flight? It would seem that unless the person was traveling for Biz and had no choice but to be on that flight that, that if they would stop a person before they actually used the tkt its very easy to simply walk away and drive home and start out agian the next day on someone else.
Perhaps its not technically a violation until the illegal ticket is actually put into use?
Perhaps its not technically a violation until the illegal ticket is actually put into use?
Im not a lier, sorry meant Lawyer , but I believe it says the sale of ... is not allowed, so once they know the sale has taken place they could move in, but its probably better to nab the buyer as well, otherwise the buyer will continue to try and purchase them via other sources.
Besides this way, they allow AA or whatever the Carrier maybe to earn some nice Ca$h at the same time. Nabbing the person before the out bound might not bring in that Ca$h as they can simply go home and fly another way the next day. Once a person has already used part of the freebie or whatever, they probably will be more inclined to buy what they must in order to get back home, otherwise there could be a Hotel expense etc and again no res for a Hotel or Car at the place they were nabbed.
If I purchased something and was caught and didnt start my travels as yet, Id go home or my office and workout another means of getting there the next day or even the same day but on some other Carrier. Now if I was caught on my return flight, then as much as Id like not to pay and fly with whomever, Id admitt I probably would cough up the $$ and fly them least I tick them off and have them come down even harder, like make me pay for the flight I already flew. I dont think they want to embrass the person they catch as they dont want them not to fly them in the future in a legit way.
Im wondering, it seems that most of the time they are lying in wait for the person after the person has already flown their 1st leg and now is in no real position to do anything but anti up the $$$ and buy a tkt, since they arent in the Home area.
I never thougth of it this way, but there is something to be said for this strategy on an airline's part!
If they cancel your ticket before starting, you'd most likely just walk away. If they do it mid-journey, you have to come home, and if their asking price is not too unreasonable, you'd find it most convenient to buy from them. Or at least there is good chance that you might.
Perhaps its not technically a violation until the illegal ticket is actually put into use?
For the seller it is a violation as soon as he offers to sell his miles or free award. They can confiscate his miles and close his account etc.
If the buyer was buying miles to build up his account, then he is similarly vulnerable.
However, in many cases the buyer has very few miles of his own or, if buying an award ticket, perhaps not even a FF account. In this case the airline doesn't have any leverage over him except when he is mid-journey.
However, in many cases the buyer has very few miles of his own or, if buying an award ticket, perhaps not even a FF account. In this case the airline doesn't have any leverage over him except when he is mid-journey.
Good point. Assuming the buyer hasn't paid yet, or can cancel the payment, stranding him/her is the only punitive option they really have. Hadn't thought of that.
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For a period of time in the late 90s all the way into 2001, fares from DFW to many west coast cities would run $1200+ on
[...]
Someone in our travel department came up with the brilliant idea that we could fly DFW-AUS AUS-DFW-PDX-DFW-AUS AUS-DFW on two separate tickets
Hidden city ticketing was common much earlier than you say and certainly not conceived by your travel department. It was practiced from at least from the early 90s. It was then popularized by the monthly (then-printed) magazine, Best Fares.
I personally know enough people who HAVE been caught that there is NO way I would ever even THINK of selling my miles.
On the anecdotal side, I also know a number of people who have been quite active with selling their miles or certs or other activities that the airlines might view as fraud - and who have not been caught yet (or at least have not admitted to it).
As I've commented before, I have former colleagues who have met the folks in the suits before - trust me, they are real. My old firm had a habit in the late 90s of encouraging us to do throw away ticketing and other activities that violated ticketing rules... until the suits started meeting connecting flights at DFW and personally escorting my colleagues to their "next" flight (i.e. the one they were going to "throw away" or not take). It only took that happening to a handful of folks on a Friday night (who were forced to fly to Austin and miss their family until Saturday morning) before we put pressure on our management to stop that ticketing practice.
Please tell me you're kidding.
No one from AA has the legal authority to "personally escort" you anywhere without your permission. In legal terms, this is called Unlawful Imprisonment, perhaps even Kidnapping.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landing Gear
No one from AA has the legal authority to "personally escort" you anywhere without your permission.
Take it you've never been met by someone from AA Special Services to escort you to your next flight? It's a courtesy that has been extended to a number of us here.
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Take it you've never been met by someone from AA Special Services to escort you to your next flight? It's a courtesy that has been extended to a number of us here.
Please re-read the phrase "without your permission."
I might consider booking an Award ticket for a friend/family member, but I doubt I would 'gift' them the taxes payable on the ticket which can be $250 from UK.
Technically is getting them to pay me that sum, breaching AA rules?
, but then thats due to not having participated
, but I believe it says the sale of ... is not allowed, so once they know the sale has taken place they could move in, but its probably better to nab the buyer as well, otherwise the buyer will continue to try and purchase them via other sources.
