Programs: AA EXP/2.7MM, UA 3P, Hyatt DIA, SPG PLT, HH Gold, and happily just a FT general member.
Posts: 9,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowg
Instead of hearing that many people are caught, I'd like to know the percentage. It could be that most people who sell miles DON'T get caught. I don't know myself, but I'm just saying...
I personally know enough people who HAVE been caught that there is NO way I would ever even THINK of selling my miles.
On the anecdotal side, I also know a number of people who have been quite active with selling their miles or certs or other activities that the airlines might view as fraud - and who have not been caught yet (or at least have not admitted to it).
As I've commented before, I have former colleagues who have met the folks in the suits before - trust me, they are real. My old firm had a habit in the late 90s of encouraging us to do throw away ticketing and other activities that violated ticketing rules... until the suits started meeting connecting flights at DFW and personally escorting my colleagues to their "next" flight (i.e. the one they were going to "throw away" or not take). It only took that happening to a handful of folks on a Friday night (who were forced to fly to Austin and miss their family until Saturday morning) before we put pressure on our management to stop that ticketing practice.
(4) He remebers the staff as being professional but courteous, and not mean, who even thanked him for being cooperative. They offered him the return ticket at a price which was not bargain, but not punitive either, and he bought it.
My guess is, that the airline staff knew that they had no judicial powers and not much leverage over a grad student who wasn't even a member of their program. He was still a potential customer with other options in a market they obviously understood. If their demands seemed unreasonable, he could just walk away. So making a competitive offer was a smart move as they still made a sale.
That's good to hear. But why didn't they just cancel his ticket ahead of time and warn this first time violator of their rules to not do it again?
Do all airlines have these kinds of rules and gotcha policies for those who trade miles? Have they always treated mile earnings this way or is this sort of policy something that has developed over the years? What about miles that one has purchased with cash - are these also not allowed to be traded? (if so, that, in particular, doesn't seem fair to me)
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I have given away a lot of tickets to people with a different last name (co-workers, cousins, people in need).
I have been surprised that I have never even received a call from AA to inquire.
Nevertheless, I think AA's first goal is to keep a paying passenger (your friend should be safe), AA's second goal is to punish and make sure it does not happen again (the people with the AAward seats will be in for a surprise).
This thread is fascinating. Thanks to all those who've posted personal experience and/or expertise. I have no plans to buy or sell miles in the future but I have learned a lot.
It seems to me that the reason they make such a big deal out of straight selling is because it's money straight from the airlines's pocket. If it was allowed to exist out in the open you could just open a travel agency and undercut AA on just about any fare by arbitrage from those who have miles to those that want expensive tickets. Which would be a catastrophe. Option A is a business traveler paying $5000 for a F ticket, for example, option B is AA loses that $5000 and instead clears miles out of an account that might have never even used them. Destroys the "breakage rate" calculations completely.
Maybe to add some context, I have friends in the tech business and this has been a been story recently:
The internet opens up a whole new world for arbitrage, and many industries are having to react. I wonder if we'll see more draconian measures instead of less. It seems like it's the only way for airlines to protect revenue without abandoning the ability for FF program members to legitimately buy tickets for unrelated friends and family.
I My old firm had a habit in the late 90s of encouraging us to do throw away ticketing and other activities that violated ticketing rules... until the suits started meeting connecting flights at DFW and personally escorting my colleagues to their "next" flight (i.e. the one they were going to "throw away" or not take). It only took that happening to a handful of folks on a Friday night (who were forced to fly to Austin and miss their family until Saturday morning) before we put pressure on our management to stop that ticketing practice.
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, BA Gold, UA 2P, SPG Platinum
Posts: 3,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by UA Fan
What exactly is "throw away ticketing"?
I believe its when you book a roundtrip or continuing trip because the price is cheaper but only fly some of the segments of it, thus "throwing away" the return portion. For example, let's say you book LAX-DFW-MIA, because it is cheaper than LAX-DFW, but then you get off in DFW. Or, lets say you book LAX-MIA-LAX, but only fly the LAX-MIA portion.
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If you reread the post you Quoted its all right there.
The people who were flying had their return as XYZ-DFW-AUS but had no reason to go to AUS. The tkt was purchased with a return to AUS cause it was cheaper then if it was a XYZ-DFW tkt. DFW was really where they wanted to stop flying and had no reason to fly onto AUS.
Another Term for this type of a tkt is Hidden City
So basically if All goes well , what the passenger plans to do is walk off the plane that lands at DFW (in this case) and then outside the Term and go home or wherever. Keep in mind this usually means that the Passenger can Not check any bags as its hard to explain why your tkted to AUS but want the bags tagged only to DFW. I know of some who were succesful getting them tagged to where they planned to end, sometinmes that alone can and will set up the Red Flag.
Also, you can be damn sure that if you WIN miles, you pay tax and you can deduct if you give those miles to charity.
Is this true? I thought donated miles weren't worth anything for deduction purposes? Is it just because they have a declared value when you win them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by simongr
I wonder if gifting eVIPs in CC but demanding a donation to charity is a breach of T&Cs...
If you're not going to use them, might as well gift them to someone- and if you mention your favourite charity at the time of the gift, the donee may feel like doing the charity as good a turn as you have. Pay it forward, right? I think it's a win/win scenario.
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Posts: 10,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by oopsz
If you're not going to use them, might as well gift them to someone- and if you mention your favourite charity at the time of the gift, the donee may feel like doing the charity as good a turn as you have. Pay it forward, right? I think it's a win/win scenario.
Sounds like a good idea! Now, just who to donate them to. Ah, I've got it! The Jaimito Cartero world exploration fund!
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That's good to hear. But why didn't they just cancel his ticket ahead of time and warn this first time violator of their rules to not do it again?
I think that's easy to guess. His ticket was simple, just the outbound and return flights, no stops. Whatever aroused their suspicions happened after he took his first flight. Once at the destination, he wasn't staying put in some 5* hotel, but a student taking trains and buses to other cities. They would have had no way of reaching him even if they wanted to. He just came for his return flight and was surprised by the questioning.
Most likely, the seller had gotten caught in another real or sting transaction in the meantime.
Im wondering, it seems that most of the time they are lying in wait for the person after the person has already flown their 1st leg and now is in no real position to do anything but anti up the $$$ and buy a tkt, since they arent in the Home area.
Does anyone know of cases where they stopped the person from using these so called ilgotten tkts before they flew the 1st Outbound flight? It would seem that unless the person was traveling for Biz and had no choice but to be on that flight that, that if they would stop a person before they actually used the tkt its very easy to simply walk away and drive home and start out agian the next day on someone else.
Im wondering, it seems that most of the time they are lying in wait for the person after the person has already flown their 1st leg and now is in no real position to do anything but anti up the $$$ and buy a tkt, since they arent in the Home area.
Miles in another program could come in handy in some such situations. But it would be amusing -- well, not really for the person impacted -- if that other program account got shut down too at or about the same time.
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