A very friendly member of this forum gifted me 2 eVIPs in March for my MR. On first contact with AA at the transfer desk at LGW there was obviously some kind of prompt on the information screen as I was asked a couple of questions about the person who gifted me the eVIPs, and the nature of the "gift".
I guess I answered all questions satisfactorily, plus the fact that they were laughing at my itinerary and my 6 boarding passes probably helped.
I have never sold miles, but AA would have much more to lose in terms of my business going away than they would by recouping a few grand in mileage value. It's in their best interest to be pretty lenient in situations like this - why would anyone stay w/ AA when your AAdvantage account was running at negative? Hell, just create a new account and let them try to catch you...
I am sure they would judgements on a case by case basis but if it was clear that high revenue pax could get away with this it would cost AA a fotrtune. The high revenue pax are likely to have high balances and thus plenty of miles to play with - thus all of a sudden the award flights are crystalising.
It's a deterrent - its like jailing a high profile high tax paying CFO who makes a few "judgement" calls in his accounting treatments - it puts other people off doing the same...
@GUWonder I am harsh but fair when I am auditing people - mostly harsh though
but AA would have much more to lose in terms of my business going away than they would by recouping a few grand in mileage value. It's in their best interest to be pretty lenient in situations like this
It makes wonder as an auditor whether there is a vindictive streak...
I'm tempted to make a quip here guaranteed to provoke giggles at the desks of those at AA who may be reading along... but it's probably best if I pass on that one.
So I'll just say that they are the nicest, most benevolent, best looking people in the whole organization.
A very friendly member of this forum gifted me 2 eVIPs in March for my MR. On first contact with AA at the transfer desk at LGW there was obviously some kind of prompt on the information screen as I was asked a couple of questions about the person who gifted me the eVIPs, and the nature of the "gift".
I guess I answered all questions satisfactorily, plus the fact that they were laughing at my itinerary and my 6 boarding passes probably helped.
If they are even a semi decent auditor they will see through the flattery quite quickly and be trying to work out who you are and how best to stick the knife in. Now if you knew the name of someone you could give them - that would be entirely different
Some days my less than nice audit side sneaks out - normally late afternoon on a FRiday when I havent spent lunch in the pub
Instead of hearing that many people are caught, I'd like to know the percentage. It could be that most people who sell miles DON'T get caught. I don't know myself, but I'm just saying...
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I'll say right up front that I'm probably not going to be around during the next few days in order to debate this, so save your flames. That said -
To those of you taking note of the very clear nature of the violation and the appropriateness of punishment I simply say: Just because the airlines (including AA) stipulate that transfers of this type are a violation of their rules, and have the power to punish you, does not make the activity conceptually 'wrong'.
I'm not advocating breaking their rules. I'm just saying that the disbursement of miles is a BUSINESS, and one way or another we're effectively buying the miles. And while, legally speaking, we're agreeing to live by airline rules when we do so, that doesn't mean the airlines have any moral right to those rules. Their ability to implement and enforce them doesn't make them 'right'.
I don't consider it likely, but a difference in political wind or judicial philosophy could one day result in a legislative or judiciary decision to nullify airline rules.
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Your friend should be told exactly what JonNYC has posted. I as well most heartily recommend full disclosure and cooperation. And no recidivism, as well - AA are not as tolerant of repeat offenders.
IMPO, selling miles is basically theft: they are, AFAIK, AA's miles, which (also IMO) is part of the reason we do not pay taxes on miles, why we do not gain any tax benefit from donating miles to acceptable charities and why AA can enforce their terms and conditions on how they are to be used - or not. They are nice enough to allow us to allow us to use those miles to acquire travel and other benefits for family, friends, etc. but we need to adhere to the T&Cs for our "AAccounts" to live long and prosper.
Not true. You don't pay tax on them, because they are considered a rebate.
However, technically, if you get them from work, you should pay tax.
Also, you can be damn sure that if you WIN miles, you pay tax and you can deduct if you give those miles to charity.
I have never sold miles, but AA would have much more to lose in terms of my business going away than they would by recouping a few grand in mileage value. It's in their best interest to be pretty lenient in situations like this - why would anyone stay w/ AA when your AAdvantage account was running at negative? Hell, just create a new account and let them try to catch you...
It's not about the value of the miles. It lost revenue and that worry of getting caught will stop many people from even trying to do this.
The rules are pretty clear on this subject.
I am the person who posted the anecdote in #44. Seeing the response, I decided to give my friend a call and ask what had happened. Here is a synopsis, pretty close to what some of you have guessed:
(1) He had bought it at eBay as a routine transaction and not bothered to set up a cover story with the seller.
(2) When he arrived for the return check in, some red flag was already up and they started asking him a few personal question about himself and his friend. Now imagine not knowing how old "your friend" is (25 or 75?), if he is black or white, where he lives or what he does. ["But wait, I do have his Paypal ID written somewhere, doesn't that help?"]
(3) At this point, realizing how stupid anything else would sound, my friend just admitted he had bought the ticket and cooperated with their questions. They didn't say what had raised the intial suspicion, but told him they had already spoken with the seller, who also didn't know much about my friend.
(4) He remebers the staff as being professional but courteous, and not mean, who even thanked him for being cooperative. They offered him the return ticket at a price which was not bargain, but not punitive either, and he bought it.
My guess is, that the airline staff knew that they had no judicial powers and not much leverage over a grad student who wasn't even a member of their program. He was still a potential customer with other options in a market they obviously understood. If their demands seemed unreasonable, he could just walk away. So making a competitive offer was a smart move as they still made a sale.
My friend had not paid enough attention to know if the seller was a "frequent seller" at eBay. We obviosuly don't know what raised the initial suspicion and what happened to him.
[quote=
My friend had not paid enough attention to know if the seller was a "frequent seller" at eBay. We obviosuly don't know what raised the initial suspicion and what happened to him.[/QUOTE]
But even this opens a paradoxical can of worms:
A 'frequent seller' might mean the buyer is more likely to be busted (as any of the seller's other transactions can spell doom for the buyer).
a non-frequent seller means buyer is more likely to be ripped off in that specific transaction...
AA auditors must be smiling-- it's unwinnable, in terms of game-theory at least--
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I have a minus of 50k miles in my UA account... for about 3 years now. This dont result from selling or buying miles but from another, maybe not kosher act from my side which I dont want to defend.
Good thing: I flew my award and they detected it afterwards, then deducted the miles. I changed the address to somewhere in north africa where I worked for a while (I know they have records!) but anyways... I dont think they can make me pay for anything or what do you think?
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