And by the way-- not at all uncommon. Members here have also been met by "men in suits" (and not good-fitting suits, mind you) at check-in or even at the gate when using purchased award tickets. They will advise you your ticket is useless and that you have to pay to get home. I know several people who've gotten "the greeting" at check-in-- it happens very often.
And, although one might think you'd want to fly another ailine at that moment (out of spite if nothing else) but most folks just on the spot shelled out the thousands to just get it over with and get where they're going. Plus, they could technically be held responsible for any parts of the ticket they may have already used. Sound fun?
It's not like they're gonna' just sit there and let you book a nested r/t at that point either-- if ya' know what I mean. One-way, walk-up, full fare.
I'm curious how they know. I've used my miles to buy my son tickets and there has been no problems at all. We even have different last names. I'm slightly confused how they could prove that the seller did not buy the ticket as a 'gift' for the buyer.
Programs: AA EXP/OW Emerald, SPG Plat, HH Gld, Marrtt GLD
Posts: 3,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitedPSbusiness
WOW. That is what I call harsh...
It may seem harsh, but IIRC it is in the T & C's and or Fine Print of most FF program agreements, often that really fine print at the end of the program description.
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Programs: AA EXP 2MM, BA Gold, UA 2P, SPG Platinum
Posts: 3,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by firespirit
I'm curious how they know. I've used my miles to buy my son tickets and there has been no problems at all. We even have different last names. I'm slightly confused how they could prove that the seller did not buy the ticket as a 'gift' for the buyer.
More likely it was something that happened well before that, such as if the person was selling miles on ebay they took note of the information and then saved it. The odds are to, that if you sell one ticket you're probably selling many tickets so AA probably got info on one of them and used that on the rest.
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I'm curious how they know. I've used my miles to buy my son tickets and there has been no problems at all. We even have different last names. I'm slightly confused how they could prove that the seller did not buy the ticket as a 'gift' for the buyer.
Most often, some event or a pattern of behavior raises a flag. Then the audit department or the "men in suits" will investigate. If they meet someone at the gate, they are armed with several questions, to which they already know the answers. If your son (or your "mutual giftee") doesn't know the answers or is convincing that he can get them, he ain't flying.
Keep in mind there are no rules of evidence or presumption of innocence. If there is sufficient suspicion, the burden shifts to you to prove that you're not guilty. The people who do this are very good at what they do but they are not graded on their customer service skills.
PS. There is/was at least one "women in suit." Trust me; I know.
Last edited by dayone; May 3, 07 at 10:06 pm.
Reason: Capitalization
I have no clue as to how they do track fraud, but having spent some of this evening researching I can see that there are some posters here who are speaking the truth.
I read a few things of intrest , including guidelines for agetns at the airport on what to do if they suspect ticket or mileage fraud.
If you are travelling on a purchased free ticket please take note of the terms and conditions on the back of the ticket " 'Certificate is not redeemable for cash and is void if sold for cash or other consideration'. The suits will point this out to you as they hand you back a copy of the ticket/certificate.
Be intresting to hear how he was found out , and what they will do to him.
Not my department so I have no clue what will happen.
An agent at the ticket counter or gate may ask a question (like "who" "want" "where" "why" etc,) and if the passenger doesn't have the right answer, it triggers further inquiry as to the source (name on account etc,) of the award/UPG. AA usually gives you a second chance to answer the question correctly. With UA it is one wrong answer and the next one question is "and how would you like to pay for your ride home?"
UA generally goes back and checks any outstanding awards from the account in question and will assume they are bartered/sold so cancel them, so one mistake can cause quite a lot of damage.
Regular posters on FlyerTalk, the bulletin board of Inside Flyer's sister site, webflyer.com, are either program-abiding or reluctant to talk about bartering. Our post on the busiest FlyerTalk forum soliciting responses received only one reply from someone who asked: "You can't really expect people to publicly admit to it?...and lose all the miles we've so diligently gathered."
On another forum, the Coupon Connection, frequent flyers can swap or offer legitimate coupons. On a daily basis the flyers offer what they cannot manage to use before the expiration dates. Take TravelWeary's post looking for an Alaska Air Boardroom pass, as her travels took her off her beaten flight path. Two hours after her original post, an offer was made.
They weren't interested in the broker because they seemed to have all the info they needed on him.
I recall a case in the 80's by some ticket brokers that invalidated the sale/barter rules at the time. Seems if the airline wanted to "sell" miles then the rules about mutuality and free alienation of property rights allowed others to do the same.
And by the way-- not at all uncommon. Members here have also been met by "men in suits" (and not good-fitting suits, mind you) at check-in or even at the gate when using purchased award tickets. They will advise you your ticket is useless and that you have to pay to get home. I know several people who've gotten "the greeting" at check-in-- it happens very often.
It makes wonder as an auditor whether there is a vindictive streak - do the auditors wait until the first flight of the traded award has been taken so that they can enusre that they can charge the fee for the return?
I know I would in their position.
Not sure why some people are wishing the op's friend good luck - they broke the rules and were busted - they need to take whatever is dished out.
It does make me wonder what I am going to do with my pretty much unusable eVIPs when I hit EXP (I fly F domestic in the US and J int'l but very rarely on AA - maybe three flights a year JFK-LHR). I wonder if gifting eVIPs in CC but demanding a donation to charity is a breach of T&Cs...
I have never sold miles, but AA would have much more to lose in terms of my business going away than they would by recouping a few grand in mileage value. It's in their best interest to be pretty lenient in situations like this - why would anyone stay w/ AA when your AAdvantage account was running at negative? Hell, just create a new account and let them try to catch you...
