Why bother trying to help, JonNYC? It seems that a good number here are still not interested in accuracy or dependable advice from a knowledgeable source.
cause maybe it will happen to someone else down the road and they will know what to do and what not to do if caught
Your friend should be told exactly what JonNYC has posted. I as well most heartily recommend full disclosure and cooperation. And no recidivism, as well - AA are not as tolerant of repeat offenders.
IMPO, selling miles is basically theft: they are, AFAIK, AA's miles, which (also IMO) is part of the reason we do not pay taxes on miles, why we do not gain any tax benefit from donating miles to acceptable charities and why AA can enforce their terms and conditions on how they are to be used - or not. They are nice enough to allow us to allow us to use those miles to acquire travel and other benefits for family, friends, etc. but we need to adhere to the T&Cs for our "AAccounts" to live long and prosper.
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Last edited by JDiver; May 3, 07 at 12:43 pm.
Reason: add paragraph 2
cause maybe it will happen to someone else down the road and they will know what to do and what not to do if caught
Then, in this case, people should listen to someone who really, truly does know and not spout off random conjectures based on nothing whatsoever. The drivel does not help anyone, and it does make it less likely that the people who really do know the answers will post them.
"How can I get an upgrade..." is one thing. "How can I save my ... after doing something really stupid..." is another.
BTW, if you're ever tempted to respond to an ad (Craigs list especially comes to mind)-- keep in mind you may be replying directly to AA-- who puts out false buy offers to find out who is selling.
Your friend should be told exactly what JonNYC has posted. I as well most heartily recommend full disclosure and cooperation. And no recidivism, as well - AA are not as tolerant of repeat offenders.
IMPO, selling miles is basically theft: they are, AFAIK, AA's miles, which (also IMO) is part of the reason we do not pay taxes on miles, why we do not gain any tax benefit from donating miles to acceptable charities and why AA can enforce their terms and conditions on how they are to be used - or not. They are nice enough to allow us to allow us to use those miles to acquire travel and other benefits for family, friends, etc. but we need to adhere to the T&Cs for our "AAccounts" to live long and prosper.
It is not necessarily the case that miles are not taxable. There's been a bit of a debate about it, and the only court I'm aware of that had a chance to address it head-on ducked the issue. It did conclude that if you charge your client for a first class ticket, then upgrade with miles, that is taxable.
"The sale, barter, gift or assignment by Members of AAdvantage Miles, mileage awards or other benefits is expressly prohibited. All Miles purchased under the buyAAmiles or giftAAmiles programs are non-refundable. All transfer fees for Miles transferred using the shareAAmiles program are non-refundable.
Any improper usage or misuse of AAdvantage Miles shall be grounds for immediate confiscation and forfeiture of such Miles, and may be grounds for the forfeiture of all Miles in the Member's account and the Member's ejection from the AAdvantage Program."
Somehow I think asking for mercy will be too little too late, although the term "may" implies a little bit of negotiating possibility
I'm confused that you found information on aa.com indicating that gifting awards is prohibited. I've gifted awards on many occasions with no problems. I found the following info on aa.com that doesn't mention any restrictions on gifting.
"At no time may AAdvantage mileage credit or award tickets be purchased, sold or bartered. Any such mileage or tickets are void if transferred for cash or other consideration. Violators (including any passenger who uses a purchased or bartered award ticket) may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including American Airlines attorneys fees incurred in enforcing this rule."
I appreciate that, Dan, and I believe that is a very different situation - selling a product and benefiting materially - and using miles to do it. (IANAL, so I am not sure how it would be better written.) But I do know we are 1) not taxed on those miles we earn flying or via purchasing products etc., and 2) we can not receive tax deductions for contributions of those miles to, say, a 501 (c) (#) organization.
Perhaps selling VIPs or miles is a very different issue. In this thread, we are mainly concerned with giving some important information - directly or indirectly - to someone who has violated AA's T&Cs about selling miles and been caught doing it; it may be my fault I added the tax thing and distracted from the main issue at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan5000
It is not necessarily the case that miles are not taxable. There's been a bit of a debate about it, and the only court I'm aware of that had a chance to address it head-on ducked the issue. It did conclude that if you charge your client for a first class ticket, then upgrade with miles, that is taxable. My apologies to all.
I'm confused that you found information on aa.com indicating that gifting awards is prohibited. I've gifted awards on many occasions with no problems. I found the following info on aa.com that doesn't mention any restrictions on gifting.
That's the wording in the "buyAAmiles®, giftAAmiles(sm) and shareAAmiles® programs' Terms & Conditions". Here's the link.
It's amusing that it says this (bolding mine), "The sale, barter, gift or assignment by Members of AAdvantage Miles, mileage awards or other benefits is expressly prohibited", in the T&C for giftAAmiles.
Just another reason why I'll take JonNYC's real-life expertise over conflicting statements made here on FT or even on aa.com itself.
Although not as pertinent as JonNYC, I have some slightly unrelated experience.
CO caught me selling hundreds of thousands of OnePass mile quite a while back. My flying patterns had changed and I wasn't flying CO that much anymore. Fortunately, CO caught my last transaction so I was able to sell the bulk of my miles before I was nabbed.
I found out that I had been nailed because my account was frozen. I was a OnePass Infinity but that meant nothing. I tried escalation but that was fruitless. The Audit Department had full control and its decision was final. I was honest with them and told them I sold the miles because I needed the money. They weren't interested in the broker because they seemed to have all the info they needed on him. I was told that I my Infinity status was gone, my account would be canceled and I would lose my remaining miles.
Interestingly, I was also a lifetime Presidents Club member, which uses the same account number as OnePass. CO couldn't "close" my PC lifetime membership, so it just left my OP account frozen. CO also never deleted the miles in the frozen acct. About 5 years later, after a systems upgrade, my account was inexplicably unfrozen and I was able to cash in for one, last big award.
I learned my lesson. I would never sell/barter AA miles. I have much more to lose.
IMPO, selling miles is basically theft: they are, AFAIK, AA's miles, which (also IMO) is part of the reason we do not pay taxes on miles, why we do not gain any tax benefit from donating miles to acceptable charities and why AA can enforce their terms and conditions on how they are to be used - or not. They are nice enough to allow us to allow us to use those miles to acquire travel and other benefits for family, friends, etc. but we need to adhere to the T&Cs for our "AAccounts" to live long and prosper.
You have a very inconsistent and paradoxical "professional" opinion.
Selling miles is theft. Trading, i.e., bartering them (specifically prohibited in the AA T&Cs, to which you admonish us to adhere), with the encouragement and support of FT using the Coupon Connection platform, is ethical and encouraged.
What is the basis for this shade-of-gray nuance to a clearly black-and-white issue?
