I had a situation where I think it was handled badly.
I don't remember the details, but it had to do with booking a paid ticket on a flight and then canceling it at the last minute and obtaining a reward ticket on that flight. I can't remember why I did that, but there must have been a good reason since I never would have tried to manipulate the system (they claimed I was holding the seat open preventing them from selling it to someone else and then taking it with a reward at the last minute).
Instead of telling me about the problem, I just found that every time I checked in to take a flight, I could not use the machines. The TA also couldn't check me in without calling security in Dallas. It took a minimum of 20 minutes to get my BP every single time I few (and I was EXP that year, so I flew a lot). AA told me I was on a TSA watch list, so I went through the process to get removed. TSA said I wasn't on their list, so it must be an AA list. I spent many hours and eventually found that they had put me on a watch list so I couldn't check in without going through the security desk at Dallas.
I was furious that they'd do this, but even more furious that they'd do it without telling me. If they were trying to discourage what they thought was cheating on my part, wouldn't it make more sense to let me know what it is that they didn't want me to do?
You must be some kind of zen monk to have that happen to you and keep flying AA. I'd be long gone....
I'd suggest it was done that way [i]precisely[i] in order to be as embarrasing as possible, and to cause the person personal inconvenience....
More of a "rub your nose in it lesson" than just saying "Don't do it"....
If someone is intentionally breaching the conditions of carriage that they agreed to... then why should the airline be nice about it? Those conditions MAY in fact be ridiculous..... but in commencing the trip surely you are attesting that you have in fact agreed to abide by them?
Programs: AA EXP, DL Plat, CO Plat, LH/BD/OZ*G, Hyatt Dia, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Sixt Dia, Hertz PC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjaminNYC
If were NOT elite and didn't care about earning miles, I would tell them to bugger off. The *only* way I'd put up with this would be if I had a large mileage balance/high elite status I cared about.
Exactly... or, if I do this regulary, I simply put my miles on QF and go on with it ! Gives you 2 advantages: 1. Free AdmiralsClub with OW-Emerald, 2. AA has no authority over your miles.
You can still earn AA miles with credit cards etc but as long as this account is not in connection with the flight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero
Why not contact AA, and see if they will donate the miles, or sell them at a discounted price? Seems like a good way to get a nice package put together.
That's exactly what I suggested to the auction chairs. They tend to focus on trying to get people to donate FF miles, without understanding the hassle factor of handling the bookings, not to mention the "red flag" factor discussed in thsi thread. We've been able to get airfare donated many times by asking the airlines directly.
Programs: AA Ex Plt, 2.1MM, BMI Diamond, HH Diamond, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plt
Posts: 6,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbjag
And that is exactly why earlier this week I once again turned down the auction committee chair of a fundraising organization I chair who was trying to persuade me to donate miles they could package with a hotel stay in Venice Too much possibility of this type of scenario occurring.
Not to mention AA to VCE isn't the easiest itinerary (the BA flights leave from LGW, not LHR) or you need to go through MAD and change to IB.
The auction committee should contact DL or US Air and ask for a free ticket.
Perhaps its not technically a violation until the illegal ticket is actually put into use?
Miles came up in an exam review session today... The professor said he would consider miles to be a "bailment," similar to, say, when you leave your clothes with the dry cleaner or leave your car and its keys with the parking lot attendant in the morning. You are giving them your property to hold temporarily and they may use your property for very limited purposes (the parking lot attendant may park your car, but not drive it around town; the dry cleaner my launder your shirts but not wear them). In these cases, you are the bailor and the dry cleaner/parking lot attendant is the bailee. In terms of miles, American Airlines, the bailor, gives you, the bailee, American Airlines property (frequent flyer miles) to hold and to use for specific purposes. By selling the miles, in clear violation of the contract formed between bailor-AA and bailee-AAdvantage Member, the bailment has been violated and AA has significant leeway in taking back its property as well as making a punitive claim (since it wrote that into the bailment agreement). In addition, since US courts are loath to recognize total forfeitures, AA is not only helping keep a customer by not taking all of a violator's miles, but it also avoiding disfavor in the eyes of most courts.
Thus, the sale - not the use by the purchaser - was the violation of the bailment.
This is just one legal theory - a mix of property law and contract law - of looking at the miles, but seems to work.
Last edited by DCAstudent; May 5, 07 at 10:01 pm..
Reason: Edited to correct a spelling error...
i think that AA should just allow the bartering of miles and the "gifting of miles to nominees" so long as there's no business of selling miles on a continued basis. IE, you don't do it every month or go against the spirit of using the miles for your own travel needs.
AA already sells miles, allows the exchange of miles for tangible goods, this would only be an extension.
I thought CO miles don't expire.
Mu kids have miles and haven't flown CO in the past 15 years or more.
The old miles don't expire, IIRC. But any miles earned in the last few years expire if you don't earn some new miles on that airline every couple of years. Your kids would have the old miles.
You must be some kind of zen monk to have that happen to you and keep flying AA. I'd be long gone....
I thought about it, but AA offers the best route service for me and the best frequent flyer program for the way I use it. Plus after 1.4 M miles and a couple years of exp, I didn't want to start all over again. I think I also had about 300 K miles in my account at the time. Typically, when I travel with my family, I get them award tickets and buy my own ticket, so I was stuck with AA until those miles were used up, as well.
AND there's the fact that most of the other airlines were in bankruptcy at the time and I didn't want to risk switching to a FF program that might disappear or get grossly devalued.
Finally, as I said, I think they handled this incident very, very badly and let them know, but overall I've been happy with the way I've been treated and didn't want to change my entire flying practice over one incident.
Miles came up in an exam review session today... The professor said he would consider miles to be a "bailment," similar to, say, when you leave your clothes with the dry cleaner or leave your car and its keys with the parking lot attendant in the morning. You are giving them your property to hold temporarily and they may use your property for very limited purposes (the parking lot attendant may park your car, but not drive it around town; the dry cleaner my launder your shirts but not wear them). In these cases, you are the bailor and the dry cleaner/parking lot attendant is the bailee. In terms of miles, American Airlines, the bailor, gives you, the bailee, American Airlines property (frequent flyer miles) to hold and to use for specific purposes. By selling the miles, in clear violation of the contract formed between bailor-AA and bailee-AAdvantage Member, the bailment has been violated and AA has significant leeway in taking back its property as well as making a punitive claim (since it wrote that into the bailment agreement). In addition, since US courts are loath to recognize total forfeitures, AA is not only helping keep a customer by not taking all of a violator's miles, but it also avoiding disfavor in the eyes of most courts.
Thus, the sale - not the use by the purchaser - was the violation of the bailment.
This is just one legal theory - a mix of property law and contract law - of looking at the miles, but seems to work.
That's certainly plausible, but I think that simple contract law would cover it as well. You give the airline something of value (your money to buy a ticket) and they give you something of value in return (a seat on the plane). They also give you something free which has no intrinsic value (miles). However, they put restrictions on the use of the miles and have the right to insist on you using the miles the way the airline defines it.
The difficulty with both explanations is that the airlines (and the customers!) need for the miles to be seen as having no value. If they have intrinsic value, then the IRS would have the right to tax them (and it would be easier for companies to say that the employer should get miles earned on business travel). By saying that the miles have no value (even though it is possible to buy them from the airline!), the frequent flyer's avoid both of those issues.
You give them $, they give you tickets and miles. Why should the IRS tax the miles any more than they should tax the tickets? The IRS has decided miles from employer paid flights are not taxable compensation.
