You are right .... but that's what this forum is for. If enough people complained, maybe things would change
The problem is, though, that you're posting this in a forum of frequent fliers, many of who don't go two weeks without flying, much less 18 months. There are few folks here who would ever be in this situation. Most of the folks here, from what I've seen here, and on similar threads, feel that the airlines are completely justified in doing this.
My point is that you're not going to get a lot of sympathy and support for change here. Most of us feel that frequent flier programs are for, well, people that fly frequently. And such people would never have miles expire.
I'd have to agree with kebosabi and brp. We all know (or should know) what the rules of the program are adn abide by them. I was slack in not checking the accounts I 'look after" and trying to find some transaction that would keep the points active. Sure, it's not as easy because most of the accounts that I look after live in Australia (where we don't get to participate in some of the offers), but that I accept.
Nice to know that my mother-in-law and my wife's best friend now have their points back. Sure it cost me, but I deserved to pay
__________________
Flown 585 sectors totalling 821,765 miles since March 03, 1988 (ba97.com)
Programs: AA EXP 1MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, HH Blue, Hyatt Gold, SPG Gold, Amtrak Select
Posts: 1,561
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Originally Posted by rioesmarex
You flew because you " thought " you were getting something in return for your loyalty.
No, I fly to get from point A to point B
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You spent YOUR MONEY to buy tickets and earn miles .... NOT THEIRS.
Bad mistake - never buy tickets just to earn miles...unless you're on a good-fare MR
But in all seriousness, that's how we all do it - we fly frequently. We earn miles and have our expiry dates extended because as brp has said, most of us here fly out once every two weeks or so.
However, there are also people who never even flew but still earn close to 5,000 miles or more each month. AA has a wonderful dining program, e-shopping portal, multiple partnerships with charities, magazine subscriptions, online flower outlets, etc. etc. which allows one to earn miles without flying. Any one of these could've save you from your miles from expiring, but you chose to ignore it because you didn't read the T&Cs: http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?...Conditions.jsp
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You had the choice to fly with any one of a number of airlines but you chose them because you thought they would honor their commitment.
They did honor their commitment, you just failed to honor your end (see T&Cs below). It's a frequent flyer program, not an occasional flyer program. Heck, they've even made it simple for occasional flyers through multiple mileage earning opportunities!
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Originally Posted by AAdvantage Terms and Conditions
AAdvantage members must have mileage earning or redeeming activity once every 18 months in order to retain their miles. Miles will first expire under this 18-month policy on December 15, 2007. If your account has no qualifying activity in any 18-month period, all miles in the account will expire except for those miles earned prior to July 1, 1989 in accounts established prior to January 1, 1989 whose mileage credit will not expire. Each qualifying activity extends the expiration date of all unexpired mileage credit in your account for 18 months from the date of the qualifying activity. Qualifying activity is defined as redeeming any AAdvantage award or accruing mileage credit on any eligible American, American Eagle®, AmericanConnection® or AAdvantage airline participant as well as accruing mileage credit with participating hotels, car rental companies, credit cards, telecommunication providers, and other service providers offering AAdvantage mileage credit.
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Even more so when it is money you spent using their c.cards. Comparison to other and /or foreign airlines is of no import. Two wrongss don't make a right .... it's still stealing.
So you're telling me that you had an AA mileage earning credit card, but you chose not to use it for the whole eighteen months? A burger at a local fast food store using that credit card would've saved your miles, but you didn't. Am I missing something here?
I'm sorry if all of this sounds unsympathetic, but all of these are written specifically under the terms and conditions. Unfortunately you have only yourself to blame for the loss of your miles. You expected the terms to be in your favor but you realized that it wasn't the case.
I hope this may have been a wake up call for you to actually read the terms and conditions of the program so that such mishaps never happen again.
Sorry to disagree with you but you are still missing the point. The airlines set up these programs to entice you to fly with them. You flew because you
" thought " you were getting something in return for your loyalty. You spent YOUR MONEY to buy tickets and earn miles .... NOT THEIRS. You had the choice to fly with any one of a number of airlines but you chose them because you thought they would honor their commitment.
There is no comparison to banks ..... when they expire your miles, they are STEALING your money in the form of free trips that you earned.
Even more so when it is money you spent using their c.cards.
Comparison to other and /or foreign airlines is of no import. Two wrongss don't make a right .... it's still stealing.
You agreed to a program with rules.
AA didn't violate the rules.
If you buy steak and don't cook it before it spoils, you lose the steak.
Yes I can see that clearly this is not the right forum for issues like these. Obviously those of you who fly frequently " every two weeks " are business flyers who don't give a damn about costs because your company or your bosses are paying for your flights. It would probably be a little different if it were your own money.
Not to beat a dead horse but the program is no longer a frequent flyer program ........ it is an occasional flyer program by virtue of all the other ways to earn miles ( i.e. Citi cards ).... and for your info I spend tens of thousands of dollars a year with that card, but the way it is set up, only the card holder gets the miles..... not the other people who use the card and have their own card with their name on it. ... my wife was the one who lost her miles ...not me ..... and then they have the " b...s " to suggest I give her miles for a $50 + fee
Once again ..... never mind the rules ...... there's no way miles should ever expire ..... it's just a convenient excuse to get out of giving someone the reward that they paid for.
In this case the steak didn't spoil ..... the cook did ....... but then there are other restaurants.
Yes I can see that clearly this is not the right forum for issues like these. Obviously those of you who fly frequently " every two weeks " are business flyers who don't give a damn about costs because your company or your bosses are paying for your flights. It would probably be a little different if it were your own money.
I've earned EXP for the past 4 years, primarily on my own dime. Last year and this year it was COMPLETELY without business travel on AA. This year my wife and I have already flown about 67K miles- all out of our own pockets. So, no, it's not different. I fly frequently and my miles don't expire. You can do that too, if you choose. Coming here and whining because you let your miles expire, then trying to blame someone else, compounding it by ragging on those who can follow the rules- that definitely ain't gonna get no sympathy here.
I'm sorry you lost track of your miles and let them expire, but these things happen and are a learning experience.
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, UA 1K, Hyatt Diamond, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 18,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by rioesmarex
Obviously those of you who fly frequently " every two weeks " are business flyers who don't give a damn about costs because your company or your bosses are paying for your flights. It would probably be a little different if it were your own money.
I wish I had someone to pay for my miles Hopefully when you spend a little more time here you'll become more familiar with those that post here and how they earn their miles. We have a lot of leisure flyers that are regularly in the air on either paid or award travel.
I've done three trips over the last two weeks, and have two more booked over the next month. I regularly fly over 100,000 miles a year. It's all my own money. I'll requalify for EXP in just a few hours.
It sounds like AA's program doesn't meet your needs. Have you investigated any other frequent flyer programs? Are there any U.S. programs left that don't have 18 month expirations? IIRC, AA matched others with the 18 month expiration. They were not the first one to do that (possibly UA beat them).
Tom enjoying the wi-fi in the SFO AC
__________________ link to my travel photos new: Haleiwa, USS New York, Blue Angels in San Francisco
Yes I can see that clearly this is not the right forum for issues like these. Obviously those of you who fly frequently " every two weeks " are business flyers who don't give a damn about costs because your company or your bosses are paying for your flights. It would probably be a little different if it were your own money..
You're going to find even less support now. There is a blend of people on FT who travel on their own $, or a mixture of business/leisure or business only. I think the latter group would be in the minority here. I am one of 3 owners of the company for which I work, so I'm spending my own profit. Our travel policy is generally "best fare of the day" with a preference for airline, however as I choose to pay "over the odds" for a more flexible fare, I pay the differential out of my own pocket.
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Not to beat a dead horse but the program is no longer a frequent flyer program ........ it is an occasional flyer program by virtue of all the other ways to earn miles ( i.e. Citi cards ).... and for your info I spend tens of thousands of dollars a year with that card, but the way it is set up, only the card holder gets the miles..... not the other people who use the card and have their own card with their name on it. ...
Sorry, will agree to disagree with you there as well. It's the people with lots of miles from CC spending (but with no status) that can't understand why more award seats aren't available for them. Their wining bores me to tears . If they want a frequent spenders card, then I'm sure there's shopping awards available to them. We're here in a FF program, so the majority of points (and all the elite status) is earned by BIS (after all, if our companies have paid for the tickets, we aren't getting the CC points).
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my wife was the one who lost her miles ...not me ..... and then they have the " b...s " to suggest I give her miles for a $50 + fee
So she didn't read or understand the rules - make her pay for it. As others have said before, there are plenty of ways a US-national can extend their miles using the AA website. Then again, a happy wife is a happy life - go on, pay for it for her
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Once again ..... never mind the rules ...... there's no way miles should ever expire ..... it's just a convenient excuse to get out of giving someone the reward that they paid for.
Definitely not one for rules and regulations that don't suit you, are you??. Hard to live in civilisation if one doesn't conform to the rules. That's when anarchy takes over. Still, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it
__________________
Flown 585 sectors totalling 821,765 miles since March 03, 1988 (ba97.com)
Yes I can see that clearly this is not the right forum for issues like these. Obviously those of you who fly frequently " every two weeks " are business flyers who don't give a damn about costs because your company or your bosses are paying for your flights. It would probably be a little different if it were your own money.
Not to beat a dead horse but the program is no longer a frequent flyer program ........ it is an occasional flyer program by virtue of all the other ways to earn miles ( i.e. Citi cards ).... and for your info I spend tens of thousands of dollars a year with that card, but the way it is set up, only the card holder gets the miles..... not the other people who use the card and have their own card with their name on it. ... my wife was the one who lost her miles ...not me ..... and then they have the " b...s " to suggest I give her miles for a $50 + fee
Once again ..... never mind the rules ...... there's no way miles should ever expire ..... it's just a convenient excuse to get out of giving someone the reward that they paid for.
In this case the steak didn't spoil ..... the cook did ....... but then there are other restaurants.
All of the restaurants have rules, and I doubt any of the major US carriers have miles that don't expire.
My business travel amounts to a couple of SJC-SEA trips a year on AS.
This means that nearly all of the money spent to get to PLT or EXP is out of MY pocket.
You don't get to choose the rules. You chose to participate in a program with rules. You don't have to be a frequent flyer to maintain an FF account. It is so damn easy to earn or use miles in an 18 month period. If your miles do expire, AA has a program that will let you get them back, for a fee.
I've earned EXP for the past 4 years, primarily on my own dime. Last year and this year it was COMPLETELY without business travel on AA.
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Originally Posted by tom911
I regularly fly over 100,000 miles a year. It's all my own money.
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Originally Posted by QF WP
I am one of 3 owners of the company for which I work, so I'm spending my own profit.
Chalk up me and my EXP spouse as two more folks who reach EXP each year on our own dime.
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In this case the steak didn't spoil ..... the cook did ....... but then there are other restaurants.
Good point. With so many airlines to choose from, it makes no sense to fly with a company you hate. Find an airline you like. I like AA. That's why I fly with them so often.
Obviously those of you who fly frequently " every two weeks " are business flyers who don't give a damn about costs because your company or your bosses are paying for your flights. It would probably be a little different if it were your own money.
Obviously you haven't researched previous threads in this forum any better than you researched the rules of the AAdvantage program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rioesmarex
Once again ..... never mind the rules ...... there's no way miles should ever expire
Agreed. Miles should never expire because that's something that is so easily avoided. Anyone who lets them do so has only himself (or herself) to blame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rioesmarex
it's just a convenient excuse to get out of giving someone the reward that they paid for.
So why give them an excuse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rioesmarex
In this case the steak didn't spoil ..... the cook did ....... but then there are other restaurants.
Don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
__________________ "When you have nothing to say, call the other guy an AApologist and hope nobody notices your deficiency."
Programs: AA EXP 1MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, HH Blue, Hyatt Gold, SPG Gold, Amtrak Select
Posts: 1,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by rioesmarex
Yes I can see that clearly this is not the right forum for issues like these. Obviously those of you who fly frequently " every two weeks " are business flyers who don't give a damn about costs because your company or your bosses are paying for your flights. It would probably be a little different if it were your own money.
I wish my company let me fly around! It may come to a surprise but a lot of people here including myself, fly out of their own money. Most of us are regular folks just like you and me.
To give you an example:
I'm 27 years old making approx $45,000 a year from my regular 9-5 job plus another $2,000 or so from my translating side-job. Basically I'm an average joe with an average job. In fact, I'm probably in the lower end of the average spectrum due to the high living costs in Los Angeles
I joined AAdvantage in Nov 2005. So far I've accumilated 600,000 lifetime miles through flying and other sorts of mileage earning opportunities. Ratio between flying and others is about 50-50.
All of my flying for the past 3 years have been out of pocket. They include LAX-SFO roundtrips (approx $89~$99) every month or so, LAX-JFK roundtrips ($250-$350) every three months or so, and very nice MRs every now and then.
So far this year I've flown 58,869 miles. I probably won't be doing as much out-of-pocket flying for the rest of the year as I am satisfied that I've re-qualified for PLT. With the exception of an upcoming MR to TVC, the remainder of this year will be earning miles through other means.
In fact, I only flew once last month - yet I still managed to earn 6,942 miles:
(the first number is regular miles, second number is bonus miles, third number is total. Add up the third numbers and you'll get the total miles for the entire month)
As you can see I only flew once, and it was a cheap visit to SFO. The rest were miles earned from shopping online, eating out with friends and my mom at a restaurant, and paying everything with my credit card.
I use the program to my advantage by reading the T&Cs, understanding the wide variety of options that I can use to earn miles, and with the help of this board
How was I rewarded? So far I've received:
1. A first class upgrade on a LAX-DFW-BWI (this was pre-FT. I would never use my miles to upgrade again!. Alas, I learn from my mistakes )
2. Roundtrip LAX-NRT ticket in F for my mom
3. Roundtrip LAX-NRT ticket in J for myself
3. LAX-JFK-LHR-ATH-LHR-LAX in Y for myself and my ex-fiancee
4. An upcoming heartbroken LAX-DFW-YYC-SEA-LAX in F (hoping that sucking in the beautiful air of Banff will cheer me up)
5. An upcoming in-your-face-to-my-ex-fiancee grand-tour of East Asia: LAX-NRT=HND-CTS-HIJ//NRT-ICN-HKG-NRT-LAX in J (A big "HA!" to my ex-fiancee)
And I still have 200,000 miles that I can't use up because I'll be using up all my vacation days
Moral of the story:
Learn from your mistakes and read the T&Cs of the AAdvantage program. You can then use the knowledge to your advantage. Also, I welcome you to FT - here you can learn everything you need to know about the program, the "secrets" that frequent flyers know about, and find out interesting mileage earning opportunities from this board. With knowledge in hand, you and your family will be much closer to a dream vacation that most people can only drool over.
I know I have - puzzled looks from my ex-fiancee and my co-workers wondering how I'm getting the $$$ to do all these traveling. My boss even suspected that I was doing something illegal before I let him in on the "secret" .
Yes I can see that clearly this is not the right forum for issues like these...
Actually, you are wrong. This is the right forum for discussing all aspects of AAdvantage program including how you think it should be. Should earned miles be your property, you pay tax on them, be free to sell them etc? Fine, I am all for theoretical discussions. However, we shouldn't confuse that discussion with how best to handle the program as it happens to be. Also, we don't really know how people are paying for their tickets, and we shouldn't act as if we do. But we all have our off moments in the heat of argument.
So please stick around, you'll learn a lot and eventually contribute a lot.
. If they want a frequent spenders card, then I'm sure there's shopping awards available to them. We're here in a FF program, so the majority of points (and all the elite status) is earned by BIS (after all, if our companies have paid for the tickets, we aren't getting the CC points). 
- go on, pay for it for her 
