OK, thanks. So something like BOS-DCA-JFK would be allowed? It would then be one open jaw (the land segment) and one BOS stopover...
Yes. If you really want to stay with your routing of BOS-DCA-BOS-YYZ, you can just add YYZ-JFK (provided all together don't exceed flown miles for OW130C award)
The routing would be BOS-DCA-BOS (connection) -YYZ-JFK
Yes. If you really want to stay with your routing of BOS-DCA-BOS-YYZ, you can just add YYZ-JFK (provided all together don't exceed flown miles for OW130C award)
The routing would be BOS-DCA-BOS (connection) -YYZ-JFK
But the OP seems to want to have his BOS stopover happens between DCA and YYZ, not at the pick-up of the air segment from the open jaw.
He could do the BOS connection between BOS-YYZ-JFK alright, but I wonder if he could do BOS-DCA-BOS (Stopover)-YYZ-JFK as he prefers.
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Is there any sort of leniency with the mile cutoffs (like with the 500 mile sticker upgrades )? I'm considering redeeming for a OW60Y (9,000 miles), but Great Circle calculates the following at 9,022 miles:
I have an upcoming trip that AA says totals 4,002 miles. I've been told twice now that there is NO wiggle room on these awards, anything above 4,001 in my case moves me to the next tier. So in my case, I'm going to have make some changes, no way am I going to blow 50,000 extra AA miles for a total of 4 miles traveled! Fortunately in my case, I have a decent Plan B that should qualify.
However, your mileage may vary - literally. I have booked other OW awards where the AA mileage comes out lower than Mileage Monkey or Great Circle Mapper, so you're best bet is to just call AA and have them do a dummy booking and see what their system says, you might get lucky.
I have an upcoming trip that AA says totals 4,002 miles. I've been told twice now that there is NO wiggle room on these awards, anything above 4,001 in my case moves me to the next tier. So in my case, I'm going to have make some changes, no way am I going to blow 50,000 extra AA miles for a total of 4 miles traveled! Fortunately in my case, I have a decent Plan B that should qualify.
However, your mileage may vary - literally. I have booked other OW awards where the AA mileage comes out lower than Mileage Monkey or Great Circle Mapper, so you're best bet is to just call AA and have them do a dummy booking and see what their system says, you might get lucky.
Or not to cut it so close. For whatever reasons, ours always come up a few hundreds to spare.
(12 segments, 2 of which are land between co-terminals, open jaw between FCO and ZRH)
If not, I'll have to ponder whether it's worth the extra 10K miles...
Would the OW80C be worth it for it for this? All of the segments have J cabins except for the 2 EZ ones. Not sure how good J is on MA (3 segments).
expect zero leniency. fortunately, you do not have any open jaws (since you do not have to return to your point of origin ZRH-FCO does not count as one).
that's good because it gives you the option to delete the one segment which is cheapest to purchase on its own (or perhaps two segments, if the connection is super-cheap) . it would be replaced with your one allowed open jaw, and your total would be comfortably below 9001 miles.
is the 80C worth it, compared to the 60Y? well, it's basically 20K for an upgrade on 9 or 10 segments--- would you pay circa 2K per segment to upgrade? I definitely would. It would also be a significant step up in comfort on the longer leg LHR-CAI.
fortunately, you do not have any open jaws (since you do not have to return to your point of origin ZRH-FCO does not count as one).
While it is true that one does not have to return to the point of origin on a oneworld award, why wouldn't originating in FCO and ending in ZRH constitute an open jaw? Mr. Bean seems to think that it does.
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thanks for the tips - I'll have to rework the routing. The simplest way is to just do CAI-LHR-ZRH on BA instead of through MAD on IB. I wasn't too interested in going to MAD, but it would have been nice to experience IB J-class. Or maybe I'll pay the extra 10K and try to fit in a couple more segments (like PRG and/or VIE).
Is it true that you can essentially have 2 open jaws then, if your origin and destination are different? I did not think that was possible from a simple reading of the rules.
Yeah, the OW80C will be nicer. Hopefully I can find availability.
On a side-note, you might have noticed the "ingenious" way I've clubbed together a trip to Chicago and back (MRY instead of SJC/SFO/OAK to avoid a no-no stopover at the originating city!) with the longer stretch, a month later, to Toronto, the UK and India!
On a side-note, you might have noticed the "ingenious" way I've clubbed together a trip to Chicago and back (MRY instead of SJC/SFO/OAK to avoid a no-no stopover at the originating city!) with the longer stretch, a month later, to Toronto, the UK and India!
if you're connecting onto a J-flight, the fees should be waived. not sure about stand-alone eagle flights.
if you're connecting onto a J-flight, the fees should be waived. not sure about stand-alone eagle flights.
Thanks, Mr. Bean. Noticed that you are a Londoner; any guidance on how to get to Dublin and back either from London or preferably from Manchester? Aer Lingus's departure from OW's rather sad and unless I'm missing something, there just seems to be no OW routing between Dublin and England unless one goes to Chicago or Madrid or Budapest and back
thanks for the tips - I'll have to rework the routing. The simplest way is to just do CAI-LHR-ZRH on BA instead of through MAD on IB. I wasn't too interested in going to MAD, but it would have been nice to experience IB J-class. Or maybe I'll pay the extra 10K and try to fit in a couple more segments (like PRG and/or VIE).
Is it true that you can essentially have 2 open jaws then, if your origin and destination are different? I did not think that was possible from a simple reading of the rules.
Yeah, the OW80C will be nicer. Hopefully I can find availability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guv1976
While it is true that one does not have to return to the point of origin on a oneworld award, why wouldn't originating in FCO and ending in ZRH constitute an open jaw? Mr. Bean seems to think that it does.
It is not an open jaw because the oneworld award ticket is not a round trip ticket, even if you do return to your origin. The easiest thing to do is a simplified comparison:
oops. that's wrong wrong wrong. The rules clearly (if obscurely) state, at this link: All awards are for round-trip travel.
That means, if you book a one-way trip, there will be an implied land segment between the destination and origin, and no other open jaws would be allowed between flown segments...
I apologize for messing that up.
Last edited by martin33; Nov 12, 09 at 3:54 pm.
Reason: corrected info
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin33
It is not an open jaw because the oneworld award ticket is not a round trip ticket, even if you do return to your origin. The easiest way to discuss this is a simplified comparison:
If you book JFK-LAX/LAX-IAD as a paid ticket, the two directions will often qualify each for a half round-trip fare, and treat IAD-JFK as an open jaw (the round-trip fare rule will say something like 'one open jaw permitted at either origin or destination', so JFK-LAX/SAN-JFK would work too).
In general A to B, and then B returning to C, will be "cheap" as long as C to A is the shortest leg of the triangle ABC. Likewise D to E, then F returning to D will be "cheap" so long as E to F is the shortest leg of the triangle DEF.
If you book JFK-LAX/LAX-IAD as a oneworld award, then it is just two segments. In fact, a oneworld award is a series of one-way trips between stopovers. In this case, it is a trip from JFK to IAD. There is no need to consider IAD-JFK--- it is not an open jaw, and it does not have to be the shortest leg of any triangle. you could just as easily have gone JFK-LAX/LAX-LIM as JFK-LAX/LAX-IAD....
So, going from Rome to Zurich on the oneworld award, via all those other places (Athens, Helsinki, Stockholm, Cairo), in the end is just the result of a bunch of one-ways. There is no Rome-Zurich-Rome "round-trip" being benchmarked against. Thus, ZRH-FCO is not an open jaw, and Bean is entitled to use that elsewhere in the trip.
Every oneworld award can have 16 total segments, and one open jaw amongst them that counts as a segment. Co-terminal changes also count as segments but not as open jaws.
excellent - that gives me some much needed flexibility. Thanks for your explanation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin33
It is not an open jaw because the oneworld award ticket is not a round trip ticket, even if you do return to your origin. The easiest thing to do is a simplified comparison:
If you book JFK-LAX/LAX-IAD as a paid ticket, the two directions will often qualify each for a half round-trip fare, and treat IAD-JFK as an open jaw (the round-trip fare rule will say something like 'one open jaw permitted at either origin or destination', so JFK-LAX/SAN-JFK would work too).
In general A to B, and then B returning to C, will be "cheap" as long as C to A is the shortest leg of the triangle ABC. Likewise D to E, then F returning to D will be "cheap" so long as E to F is the shortest leg of the triangle DEF.
If you book JFK-LAX/LAX-IAD as a oneworld award, then it is just two segments. In fact, a oneworld award is a series of one-way trips between stopovers. In this case, it is a trip from JFK to IAD. There is no need to consider IAD-JFK--- it is not an open jaw, and it does not have to be the shortest leg of any triangle.
Notice, that means on the award you could just as easily go JFK-LAX/LAX-HKG as JFK-LAX/LAX-IAD. The former would never work as a paid ticket seeking a "round-trip" fare on the basis of having an open jaw, but it's allowable as a oneworld award.
So, going from Rome to Zurich on the oneworld award, via all those other places (Athens, Helsinki, Stockholm, Cairo), in the end is just the result of a bunch of one-ways. There is no Rome-Zurich-Rome "round-trip" being benchmarked against. Thus, ZRH-FCO is not an open jaw, and Bean is entitled to use that elsewhere in the trip.
Every oneworld award can have 16 total segments, and one open jaw amongst them that counts as a segment. Co-terminal changes also count as segments but not as open jaws.
OK, actually, this looks like it's not true anymore.
I just tried to ticket the following OW80C - all segments had availability on my dates:
The AAgent at the EXP Desk said this was not allowed due to two open jaws, and only one is allowed on this award. He initially through it was fine and said he was getting an error message. Then after conferring with another desk he said it was due to the two open jaws between LON-LIS and TXL-ZRH.
Now I need to think about how I want to tweak the routing, unless there is a way to override this "error."
