AA53

Prices have gone up. We are very large AA customer and pay high 30s. Most large companies that have Airpass also negotiate for discount J/F space so don't use Airpass on intl routes. I know we get rebates of about a third on full fare tickets for international.

TravelerMSY

AA53, I do appreciate your posts and help on this.

I did see the current contract for individuals today. It is .45 for a 1 year deal, just as you said. The mileage matrix is a little different though. I don't know if they customize it for larger customers. There is in fact a higher multiplier for short flights under 900 miles O/D of 30%. (130% for coach, 98% for plan ahead)

I think I can still make it work for some very short flights between city pairs that usually have sky-high walkup fares. Just not sure if I'll do enough flights to use the whole thing in a year.

Traveler

JAGMAP

My old company paid 25 cents in 2006 and they definitely used AAirpass for Int'l.

I don't know what my new company actually pays - the pricing that comes through on my expense reports are always different despite same routings. For example, it's more expensive to fly DFW-MIA than MIA-DFW. More or less hovers around 40 cents per mile. No Admirals Club access, but our tickets book straight into A so of course I like that

stiphy

I did a quick search and didn't see anything like this. If anyone out there has an aairpass and can explain why I'm right or wrong to me I'd appreciate it

Here's the situation: I booked a one way trip for me and my wife using my airpass from EWR-DCA via AA.com. I put EWR as the starting city, DCA as the ending city, checked "use aairpass" box and chose to search by price and schedule. It returned a host of flight options, and I chose one that had a connection at ORD (1053-810). I booked it and flew it. When I got my AAirpass statement they deducted miles as if it was 2 one ways, EWR-ORD and ORD-DCA rather than deducting the miles from EWR-DCA the way aairpass is supposed to. This means it deducted about 3 times the value it should've off of my aairpass.

I called aairpass customer service and was put on hold while the rep researched the issue. He came back and told me that EWR-DCA is not a valid market therefore it books it as two one ways. My response is that I had no way to know it was going to do that. I asked the rep to go to the website and see that you can book it as a regular flight with a connection and he said "I don't know anything about the website but my system shows this as something you cannot book." He said that there was nothing he could do and I insisted that this get escalated to a manager. I will have to call back Monday.

I've since made a dummy booking for the exact same flights on aa.com for a few weeks out so when I call back on Monday to hopefully speak with the manager I can point them to that record locator to show them what I did.

Does anyone else with an aairpass have any other advice as to what I should do or say? This doesn't seem right to me. If anyone knows why I might be wrong and is familiar with AAirpass please, let me know!

Thanks,

Sean

BTW these flights will get me to EXP for those wondering why I flew EWR-ORD-DCA...also JFK is a pain to get to from my in-laws house which is right near EWR.

justageek

A quick check of expertflyer.com suggests that AA in fact does not publish any fares DCA-EWR.

I'm not sure whether you can determine this by clicking on "fare rules" on AA.com before your purchase your ticket. If yes, then I'd say you're S.O.L. If not, then perhaps you have a case.

horseguy

I'm a Aairpass holder, and you have hit upon my one major complaint with the program. When making connections, there is simply no way to know how it will be billed. From what I understand, the way you searched is the "proper" way to do it. These days, my rule is that if I'm flying a route that I've never flown before, I select the routing I want, and then call to make sure it is a valid routing. Their system simply doesn't know.

For example, if you pick a trip of MCO to CLT, there are lots of routings that show up. The three that show up the most are MCO-DFW-CLT and MCO-ORD-CLT and MCO-MIA-CLT. The very first one that shows up is the MCO-DFW-CLT routing. It turns out that this isn't a valid routing and would get billed about three times as much as the other two routings. Obviously, the other two are much cheaper, but there is absolutely no way to know when booking on-line which are the two preferred routings.
I've asked this question of the Aairpass people, and the only help they could offer is to call them and they will let me know.

The rules I've come up with for myself solve this problem.

1) If it is a non-stop, book on-line.

2) If it is a connecting flight that I have flown before and are happy with how it billed out, book on-line. I've never had the system change how particular routings are billed. For example, I fly MCO-ORD quite a bit. Sometimes, if I have the time, I'll fly MCO-MIA-ORD to get on the 763, since it is much more comfortable. That always bills out with the MCO-ORD mileage.

3) If it is a connecting routing I've never flown before, I call the Aairpass office to see how that trip will be billed. AA's software is beyond my understanding in how it bills Aairpass trips that include connections. This really sucks for last minute flights since the Aairpass office is normal work hours only.

#3 turns out to not be a big deal for myself and wife, but we are not renewing my daughter's Aairpass because of it. She travels mostly in the summer these days with strange origins and destinations. It isn't worth calling for almost every trip. I'd rather just buy the tickets with dollars and know what it will cost up front.

number_6

An excellent summary by Horseguy.

There's a reason that Aairpass is AA's most profitable product. The byzantine rules and limited office hours help to improve the profit margin so they are unlikely to change (certainly haven't changed despite being a problem for many years now). It is the anti-MR way to fly.

PanAmFT

Precisely. It was designed as a business product, assuming the traveler favors the shortest, fastest route, and compares the CPM X mileage to last-minute/refundable fares. Even when those are true, it's not always less than the fare. I cheerfully kissed mine good-by.
The direct mileage was deducted even when I took a connection, but only if a direct operated between the two airports. (City pairs don't count for Aairpass, the mileage is specific to the airport.) I'm sure what the agent meant by "not a valid market" was that no direct operates between EWR and DCA, and therefore the mileage is the sum of the connecting flights.
IF there was previously direct EWR/DCA service, and you have a statement showing that mileage posting, you could try arguing you had no way of knowing the route was eliminated. They trumpet their new routes on their web site, but they're mum on service cutbacks, so maybe a manager would make an exception for you.
Otherwise, I think you're SOL. At least you got EXP.

FullFare

I'll give my perspective as an AAirpass holder for the past 15 years (actually I'm lifetime). As to the O and D mileage deducted, AAirpass (and AA for that matter) used to have a thing about "building a connection", which I don't know if still persists. Nevertheless, the "rules" that I recollect were that you got charged the true mileage between the two cities, as the crow flies---with the exception that you would always get charged for at least the mileage of the longest of the segments involved. Perhaps to thwart folks from building up AAdvantage miles and gaming the system.

So, if one went, EWR-ORD-DCA, the longer of the two would apply, the EWR to ORD (which I think is around 718 mi or whatever). It would not be the 200 or so from EWR to DCA. Regardless, it shouldn't be the combination of the two, and the OP should complain to AAirpass through the 800 number (which, as noted, is only a Mon-Fri thing 8 - 4:30 Ft Worth time).

As for AAirpass itself, I think the program has deteriorated some over the years, with the requirement of us users being street-smart in knowing how to use it.

First, I'm glad they let us use the website to book it. It works pretty well for me. United's Pass Plus program (which I also have) hasn't allowed that (up until next year, I believe). Second, if you do call (even if you are EXP, which I am) you are likely to get someone poorly versed in the program. In fact, the level of awareness throughout the company, which was once awesome (early/mid 90's) has gone to the dogs.

Third, I have actually been screwed by making human contact, more so than going with the internet. In fact, I will make and delete dozens of internet reservations rather than risk human contact. One foible is that AA's computers are ruthlessly programmed to delete duplicate reservations, so be careful---they may delete a reservation (even non-AAirpass ticketed!) that you are relying on if their computer perceives it to be a duplicate.

Fourth, changing an AAirpass reservation with human contact both sucks and is risky. The agents frequently screw it up, especially if you are trying to change a Y to a full F ticket (I do it when an upgrade is not possibly going to clear). Better to delete your Y reservation on the internet and book the F. Also, many AA Agents do not know that the companion's miles accrue to the AAirpass holder's account--something experienced agents used to know but, alas, most don't now. I've been lectured repeatedly by AC and other agents in the wrong way. I never argue. I just back out and find another way of dealing with it, usually with the internet.

Finally, I dropped off from EXP for years (flew more as a 1K with UA out of SFO), and made it back again this year, just on a lark. The EXP desk used to be tops. Now it doesn't seem as good as it was, especially in AAirpass knowledge of the agents. The Pass Plus desk that UA has for its users is phenomenally better than the EXP desk for AAirpass members on AA. I believe it's because UA routes it through their Global Services Desk in Dearborn. That, too, has seen better days, but still has AAirpass beat by a mile in the realm of human contact.

There are a lot of easy, workable and valid ways to game the AAirpass system to keep high status, such as EXP, mostly be international travel with a companion. I can do but 3 international trips with my wife to, say, London, using only coach AAirpass miles, and make EXP for that travel. I save a ton by the connection mileage increases and the 1.5 EQM points for Y, and get 20% discount on the AAirpass miles, not to mention upgrading with relatively cheap miles (used to be 10K one-way--now 15K. Using EXP upgrades makes it even sweeter.

I could go on with a lot more ditties, but I'm not sure anyone is interested. To sum up with AAirpass, get used to working with the internet, and beware of human contact. If you book circuitous routings from places like EWR-DCA that take you way out of your way, be careful---you will probably have to make human contact to sort it out. I don't know why AA's computer loads them as a booking option. I think that's just weird, and I have learned to avoid what's weird in the world.

Usual regards.



Usual regards

stiphy

Thanks to everyone for the help on this thread!

I am very surprised that I'd have this kind of a problem with the Aairpass, which is touted as a way to easily predict travel costs. You don't get the cheapest fares but you get some rationalization which is what we liked. Paying what they are trying to make us pay for EWR-DCA is quite irrational though. The whole idea was that I can simply plug in the mileage from point A to point B, figure out the cost per mile and make the decision on that last minute trip was highly appealing. I agree with horseguy, the program loses a lot of its appeal if I don't know what the trip will cost me and I doubt I will be able to convince my company to renew our's if this is the case (we have 3 of them).

I'm not in a situation where this trip puts me into a negative balance which has fees etc. so I'm not sure how this is going to all go down. They are going to claim that I have to cough up money which doesn't seem right considering that I had no way of knowing I'd be charged this way.

Also, believe it or not, the most convenient routing for me was what I chose, EWR-DCA because I had no access to a vehicle. I really wasn't trying to game the system for miles or anything (shame on me as a FT'er ). I was staying right near EWR, and on the way in it took 4 hours (in the snow) to get from JFK to where I was staying, a process I didn't want to go through again. I would've booked CO but I had an AAirpass. So from the standpoint of wanting to get to DCA in a stress free fashion that utilized what I had already paid for this just made sense at the time...not so much the way they are trying to book the mileage.

I am going to speak with a manager on Monday and I'll update with my progress.

Thanks again,

Sean

stiphy

Just wanted to update, I called in today and got an excellent agent. She couldn't understand why the system booked this way and fixed it. If you go to the aairpass pricing page it will price out EWR-DCA at around $120 plus taxes so I'm not sure why the first agent said it was invalid.

I also had an issue with another ticket, the website routed me through a city that was not a valid connection. This cost me around $1787!! She explained to me why this happened but understood my confusion since the website sold it as one itinerary (she could check on the phone and see it too). Basically her advice was to look at a paid booking and if something is outrageously higher as a paid booking its safe to assume its because the website is piecing it together which means you'll get booked that way on aairpass. She got her supervisor to waive it for this time and I cleared up what valid cities I can connect to for this route for the future.

They really should get the website to tell you EXACTLY what will be deducted from your aairpass account when you book the flight on the website. They show you the taxes that will be taken out but they should just show the entire $$ that will be removed. That would eliminate this confusion and make the product much more valuable.

Thanks again for everyone's help on this issue. I really do like the flexibility of the aairpass and up until these incident's have been touting it to quite a few people. In the end they set things straight but part of why we got the aairpass's is to not have these sort of hassles...hopefully they can improve the website to eliminate this.

Sean

horseguy

I made exactly this suggestion to the Aairpass people within the last quarter. It would solve every single problem I have had with the program.

TravelerMSY

Is there a special route map for Aairpass or just the requirement of having a published fare for the city pair in question?

number_6

Published fare. But how do you view published fares on aa.com? And aa.com sometimes constructs end-to-end fare routings without any indication of such -- hence the "surprise" in cost for the OP. The web site is not well designed for Aairpass (but what percentage of reservations would be using it, so this is hardly a surprise).

TravelerMSY

I use expertflyer but you can usually spot end on end on AA either by looking at the fare basis (after clicking through to book) or usually the price is a lot more than other routings on the screen.

I have a short city pair (msy-shv) that would make the pass cost-effective but they don't have any fares pm that route and I would get dinged on it like the OP

Traveler