Programs: UA 1K, AA Exec Plat, SPG Plat, HH Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Silv, PC Plat Amb, Fairmont Premier
Posts: 7,218
WSJ: Lie-flat seats in J and the lack thereof
While I'm liking AA much more than UA in most ways these days, this is the greatest respect (even more than the inferior route network) in which, IMHO, it falls far short of its domestic and international competition:
Nothing really new here, but interesting that the WSJ picked up on this.
At one point I'd read posts indicating that the current AA J seats could go lie-flat if a row of J were taken out of the relevant cabins to make way for the added room. But I guess that's not going to happen since the airline is rolling out the nice new J across the international fleet. I'm not totally clear on the roll-out schedule, but my impression is that, except for the new 777 deliveries, it will happen oh so slowly.
Sleeping "flat" is way more important to me than horizontal. The ability to sleep on my side rather than in a chair sitting up is everything.
AA was light years ahead of its competition with NGBC. I will take NGBC over rolling the dice on a UA Barcalounger any day. The AA spokes person did a poor job of articulating that AA is going to second generation flat seating, and was first among the domestics to offer flat, albeit non-fully horizontal biz class seating.
Like the esteemed and highly respected Mr. JDiver, I too have mastered not sliding down.
I don't slide down either, but I don't like feeling that I might (i.e. the sensation of being on a slope). I used to carry an inflatable foot pillow that reduced the feeling somewhat; but I don't fly AA much now that DEL is gone
There is no question that UA's flat seat is much better, to say nothing of many non-US airlines.
I don't slide down either, but I don't like feeling that I might (i.e. the sensation of being on a slope). I used to carry an inflatable foot pillow that reduced the feeling somewhat; but I don't fly AA much now that DEL is gone
There is no question that UA's flat seat is much better, to say nothing of many non-US airlines.
Agreed. I'm a side sleeper and cannot sleep on the angled bed. I slept better in the old AA sheepskin seats (which were my favorite back in the day) than I can on an angled seat. I had an IRROP on Lufthansa last month from IAD-FRA and ended up on my first angled overnight seat in a few years - With probably a dozen drinks in the lounge/takeoff plus 20mg of ambien I couldn't sleep a wink. I also think having a middle seat in business in unacceptable - I don't think for $7K I should have someone climbing over me as I try to sleep.
AA mgt is selling the notion that additional intl premium $$ is a cornerstone of their ability to emerge from bk solo it amazes me that they are not trying to accelerate their roll out of lie flat - I would love to give AA some of my $100K+ international spending each year, but don't even consider them for long haul because of the angled lie flat unless its the LHR-RDU segment on a deeply discounted Z fare.
Agreed. I'm a side sleeper and cannot sleep on the angled bed. I slept better in the old AA sheepskin seats (which were my favorite back in the day) than I can on an angled seat.
That doesn't make sense. The old seats were standard recliners and it was not possible to even get into a "side" position. With the angled-flat seats (particularly AA's which are flatter and less angled than most), it is perfectly possible to lay on one's side, and even one's stomach. So if you can't sleep on the angled beds, it's most likely NOT due to the fact that you're a side sleeper, as the first part of your post implies.
In general, I think people's problems with the angled seats is more psychological than physical (recognizing that psychological issues can prevent one from sleeping well). But JMHO of course.
I took advantage of the BA $1900ish business class sale for the Queens celebration. As an American plat I was able to reserve upper deck window seat. Very private. Very spacious. Flat. It wasn't as comfortable as the AA options in J. Yes, the 767 is a bit narrow, but the AA seats were much better. The footrest in the BA seat isn't part of the seat. Has two positions. Never had a 'comfortable' position. Footrest extremely narrow.
Anyway, guess I'm one that doesn't need flat . . .
That doesn't make sense. The old seats were standard recliners and it was not possible to even get into a "side" position. With the angled-flat seats (particularly AA's which are flatter and less angled than most), it is perfectly possible to lay on one's side, and even one's stomach. So if you can't sleep on the angled beds, it's most likely NOT due to the fact that you're a side sleeper, as the first part of your post implies.
In general, I think people's problems with the angled seats is more psychological than physical (recognizing that psychological issues can prevent one from sleeping well). But JMHO of course.
I can sleep in a recliner on my back. The angle is like torture becaue you are Almost comfortable but every time you try to o to side or slide to the bottom you realize that you are miserable. I prefer cradle seats to angled lie flat
IME, having flown on fully flat, rear facing fully flat, angled flat, I think yes, angled flat was amazing back when it was introduced because it was a huge improvement over the recliners.
However, now it's 2012 and angled flat just seems like someone was executing a brilliant idea and then at 95% completion decided it was good enough and didn't bother to finish the task.
My one complaint with fully flat is the slight pitch the aircraft has at cruise, it actually results in me sleeping on a decline, which I hate. This was alleviated when I flew UA's rear facing business lie-flat seats which I felt was even more sleepable than first class. So I think the optimal seat is one that has a very slight angled flat, perhaps 179.5 degree lie-flat which would compensate for the aircraft's cruise pitch.
So what's preventing AA from removing some seats and making those seats they have go fully flat? Seems like a quick and easy solution...
Location: South Texas -- AA EXP 3MM, Hyatt Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 4,282
AA angled J-class seat = 7 degrees of pitch
777 jumbo jet in flight = 5 degrees nose-up pitch
Total difference between AA angled J seat and horizontal = 2 degrees
Amount of griping about this 2 degrees = infinite
I enjoy AA's angled lie flat seats. I can sleep on them.
I tend to have the feeling of slipping down but what I do is, once in the "Zzzzzzz" position, I manually retract the footrest to the shortest possible so my feet touch the footrest. Problem solved. No more sliding down. I am usually waken up by the breakfast smell/ noise like an hour before landing.
But to be honest, while somewhat narrower, I have slept soundly on the BA seats. Much more comfortable for sleeping. And those window seats are privacy heaven, IMO.
Anyway...I am not sure how much of a roulette is booking on UA nowadays. I was checking several itineraries to different cities in Europe and they all had lie-flat seats for the TATL segment. No recliners. Impressive.
AA was light years ahead of its competition with NGBC. I will take NGBC over rolling the dice on a UA Barcalounger any day.
That risk is now pretty minimal on UA international. With the combined UA/CO fleet, only 7 of 172 frames are not lie flat (full). So that argument is now a moot point.
The fact remains that AA will be 2 to 3 years ( best case) behind in J class cabin upgrades now.
AA angled J-class seat = 7 degrees of pitch
777 jumbo jet in flight = 5 degrees nose-up pitch
Total difference between AA angled J seat and horizontal = 2 degrees
Amount of griping about this 2 degrees = infinite
AA angled J-class seat = 7 degrees of pitch
777 jumbo jet in flight = 5 degrees nose-up pitch
Total difference between AA angled J seat and horizontal = 2 degrees
Amount of griping about this 2 degrees = infinite
